127 replies to this topic

[Besh]

Ignatius Audene, on 22 January 2024 - 12:32 AM, said:

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

Someone asked for the AVG matches statistics?
Ofcourse, it's up to u how u interpret the statistics and what conclusions u draw. 10+ year old niche game might be one mayor factor.

I think it worth thinking about what contributes to avg. number of matches played/season/player going down. Not only total playernumber, but also matches played/player in a given timeframe has bearing on matchmaking .

edit: Above post I replied to has been edited after my reply . I think "10+year old niche Game..." as standard response to everything re playernumbers, matches played per player per season is too conveniently easy . Why not actually ask players about their playing time,matches played and what contributes to it ?

Edited by Besh, 22 January 2024 - 12:55 AM.

[sneed IIC]

I always suggest a mode where you can guarantee to be on opposing teams but the big brains tell me that it will be abused and refuse to elaborate

[Ignatius Audene]

Besh, on 22 January 2024 - 12:39 AM, said:

I think it worth thinking about what contributes to avg. number of matches played/season/player going down. Not only total playernumber, but also matches played/player in a given timeframe has bearing on matchmaking .

edit: Above post I replied to has been edited after my reply . I think "10+year old niche Game..." as standard response to everything re playernumbers, matches played per player per season is too conveniently easy . Why not actually ask players about their playing time,matches played and what contributes to it ?

Matches played and so AVG matches /player is already included in the statistic and much better then any question. Ofcourse u can always ask your customers, but that has a shitload of own problems. How many will participate? What questions do U ask, which answers do u offer? And especially if it's free answer, someone has to sort, evaluate etc the Infos. And then? 0 budget for programming time results in 0 change. Why invest big money in an survey, if U know U won't change anything, because 10+ year old game of life support.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 22 January 2024 - 01:04 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

Magic Pain Glove, on 19 January 2024 - 03:57 AM, said:

12 Players groups should be allowed in QP. I am in full support , I suggest we try this for 2 months . After all its what the SOUP enthusiasts wanted 3 years ago , just expanded a lil bit. I was convinced by them that its a net positive . Its not gonna further break tonnage balancing , spawn mech placement and team balance . And people will get positive experience of playing together with a big coordinated group ! Which will also do their best to communicate with the rest of the team .

I mean , nothing bad can come out mixing groups with a bunch of random pugs while not having a robust functional matchmaker that can balance groups vs groups or groups vs solos.So its all positives!

Let's just f**kin' DO IT!!!
Also attach the well-debated drop decks for QP and voilá!
Feel the FP experience, b**ches!
Heh, no cry => no pain => no gain!
'Cause just the because!

EDIT:
Sorry fer da rude bits, skip those fellaz!

Edited by Duke Falcon, 24 January 2024 - 12:27 PM.

[Luminios]

I support the deforestation of Emerald Vale introduction of 12 man groups to QP. It will definitely not exacerbate the problems caused by groups of 4.

[pbiggz]

Luminios, on 25 January 2024 - 06:00 AM, said:

I support the deforestation of Emerald Vale introduction of 12 man groups to QP. It will definitely not exacerbate the problems caused by groups of 4.

Its the call of the matchmaker void


im old enough to remember running into TEMPLAR 8 mans where they all ran atlases.

Edited by pbiggz, 25 January 2024 - 06:27 AM.

[KingCobra]

Magic Pain Glove, on 19 January 2024 - 03:57 AM, said:

12 Players groups should be allowed in QP. I am in full support , I suggest we try this for 2 months . After all its what the SOUP enthusiasts wanted 3 years ago , just expanded a lil bit. I was convinced by them that its a net positive . Its not gonna further break tonnage balancing , spawn mech placement and team balance . And people will get positive experience of playing together with a big coordinated group ! Which will also do their best to communicate with the rest of the team .

I mean , nothing bad can come out mixing groups with a bunch of random pugs while not having a robust functional matchmaker that can balance groups vs groups or groups vs solos.So its all positives!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your totally wrong Solo Quick Play players never wanted groups in the game mode it was the lonely comp and top Faction teams that finally suckled the devs ears until they placed them in the Solo Que and now our last populated game mode is shedding players every month.

If they do put in drop decks and competitive teams into Solo Quick Play MWO won't last another year and if it does it will be a ghost town just like Faction Play game mode is now.

[Moadebe]

Regardless of any of these polarizing statements here.

The facts remain. Small population. Matchmaker that isn't going to get adjusted that it allows for a lesser possibility for great players to match with mediocre players. If you remove groups from QP then the social players who like to play with their friends will quit. If you increase group size and/or tonnage it will frustrate the solo player more and some will leave.

Both solutions end up losing players in a pool size that is lethargic already. Which we don't need.

Not all groups are gods and end up being an instant loss. Yes a coordinated group can DEFINITELY swing odds in their favor. The key word here is coordinated. Not simply cause the group exists.

If we had a larger player pool then sure. Group que could make a comeback. Given how things are now. The sad reality is this is what we got.

I would like to note that in the current iteration of matchmaker it IS possible to have a higher group via sync dropping. If you are lucky and a 4 man group syncs with solos and they get on the same side. It is possible.

TL:DR Low pop. Matchmaker isn't great. Both prevents increasing group size and/ or lowering group size

Edited by Moadebe, 25 January 2024 - 07:20 AM.

[KingCobra]

Ok lets figure this out about MWO population to even see if a single game mode is best or is there enough population for 2 good MWO game modes to survive lets say Solo Quickplay and an 8v8 group only mode?

My stats from Steam =MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com) and I do believe if you take into account the actual game launcher + steam it would be close to being a correct analysis of the true player count so just double the Steam player numbers and you would see we would barley have enough for 2 MWO ques.

If you place the chart on ALL you can see a decline overall in player numbers

MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com) so even if by doubling the Steam figures we have a somewhat actuate player count it could still be off by a few players + or _ .

Edited by KingCobra, 25 January 2024 - 07:57 AM.

[Curccu]

KingCobra, on 25 January 2024 - 07:52 AM, said:

Ok lets figure this out about MWO population to even see if a single game mode is best or is there enough population for 2 good MWO game modes to survive lets say Solo Quickplay and an 8v8 group only mode?

My stats from Steam =MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com) and I do believe if you take into account the actual game launcher + steam it would be close to being a correct analysis of the true player count so just double the Steam player numbers and you would see we would barley have enough for 2 MWO ques.

If you place the chart on ALL you can see a decline overall in player numbers

MechWarrior Online Steam Charts - Live Player Count (steamplayercount.com) so even if by doubling the Steam figures we have a somewhat actuate player count it could still be off by a few players + or _ .

Dunno if that steamplayercount.com is bugged for me only but last month it shows is December 2022.
https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#All shows data from mwo steam launch to this day.

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats also shows kinda more accurate data because not everyone is using steam client.

No massive decline overall in player base since Russ did maintenance mode announcement.

[Magic Pain Glove]

Moadebe, on 25 January 2024 - 07:19 AM, said:

TL:DR Low pop. Matchmaker isn't great. Both prevents increasing group size and/ or lowering group size

Small population is not an unsurmountable problem as one can implement a hybrid system where you can create matches out of the same pool but only drag solos in if you don't have enough people to form a match after a certain wait time has been exceeded.

So you could have pure group queue and if lets say a 3 minute timer is exceeded some solos get dragged in to form a match. Essentially having split queue without creating additional buckets / player pools.

One of the reasons why the previous group queue died is because of uneven group sizes where you could have enough players in group queue but they would never be able to form a match ... like for example having four groups of 7 players.
There are enough players to form a 24 player match but because of group sizes in the previous group queue you could never form a match . So limiting group sizes to 2/4 ( and even 3 ) would result in MM being able to shuffle them much more easily than it was the case before.

Regarding Match Maker you can have have 24 concurrent players left playing the game at any given time ( queuing for matches ) and still shuffle them around until you create a balanced match by making each side ( using more accurate metrics AKA secondary MM balancing that was proposed and shown to PGI ) having a similar amount of skill , even if that was across all tiers . So no , things can be done . But as shown in multiple instances reluctance of players to pressure them on this and lack of PGI's will to dedicate resources to improve this problem leads to substantial player bleed over time . Especially on the part of solo pilots as good groups have a massive influence over match outcome and so do bad groups as well , maybe even more so.

That's on top of the game itself having very long TTK so that skill disparity results in very snowbally matches if you have teammates that fail to dish out enough damage before they die . Resulting in you having to chew through excessive amounts of armor ( and absorb insane amount of firepower that's not concentrated on your paperdoll) that wouldn't be a problem in other games where you can chain headshots , but that's not the case here . You essentially get stat checked.

Which makes good matchups even more important in MWO than it is the case in other games because its harder to make a come back due to all those factors that I mentioned above.

Soup queue made tonnage balancing worse , it broke spawn placements were all new maps now need to have consolidated spawnpoints since you cant split lances as people with heavy mechs might spawn on a spot that is designated for light mechs and most importantly it broke team balancing and was the only reason why we got some PSR changes after it got implemented. Since it directly resulted in more stompy matches overall.

But clueless people who asked for soup queue to be implemented never had such considerations or they didn't care . And no KingCobra as much as the forums hates compies sometimes , compies didn't ask for this change . Many of them were the ones who raised alarms regarding team balance problems but were promptly ignored by Paul and pro Soup crowd. Just go to this thread and give me the names of those comp pilots who asked for that change. So no, you dont get to blame this only an subset of players other than the individuals who asked for it (and even buzzed Russ on twitter about it constantly back in 2020) literally one of the worst changes done to the game throught its lifespan.

The only argument in their favor was "the power of friendship" , ignoring all other concerns and failing to demand improvements or changes to it after it was implemented . Now I wish to expand that to 12 players . Since we get these requests once every 2 months or so.

[Besh]

the check engine light, on 26 January 2024 - 01:27 AM, said:

It feels weird to be vindicated on the "more can absolutely be done with pressure" thing.

Agreed .

[1453 R]

So to check: I left for a year, came back, and people are still demanding that anyone with friends Leave MWO Forever(!!!) because any attempt to be social and have multiple players in your online multiplayer game is a cardinal sin?

Here's the solution I'd float, if we were capable of fixing this: let solos opt out. Put a checkmark in, just like you can opt out of the EU or Oceanic servers, that says "disallow matchmaking with groups." Let the peop,e who think having friends is literally worse than [Godwin's Law] have their cake.

BUT!

First of all, hitting that checkmark imposes a 50% penalty in match payout. You get half the C-bills and XP if you hit that checkmark, because you're making the game more difficult and less fun for literally every other person in it by hitting that checkmark. AND - because a statistically significant number of players are sitting on vast dragon hoards ofd C-bills, GSP, and other resources such that they don't care about match payout anymore, and also because it's only fair to allow the people who actually want to play MWO properly to have their games first - anyone who hits that checkmark automatically drops to the lowest possible priority in the matchmaker. The "I ONLY want solo, EVER, and will NEVER PLAY WITH A GROUP AGAIN" jackwaffles are at the back of the line and only get games when everyone who's more reasonable is already in a match.

And most importantly, the system specifically requires players to go in and hit that checkmark themselves. It's an opt-out - unless you deliberately decide to be a jackwaffle and try to soft-ban thousands of other players because you're salty about your own badness and wish to blame People Having Friends for you being bad, you drop with groups enabled by default.

Then, once that system is in place and we see how it works? We can talk about whether to expand group size in quickplay, if the numbers would support it. Because as Biggz said, all the stupid calls to "just go play private games you stupid dorks!" is nothing more than an attempt to ban People With Friends from playing MWO. After all, I could say the same to you - "just gather twenty-three randos off Twitter and go play private games with them if you hate dropping against groups so much". Telling people to play with themselves in a closet, isolated from the rest of the game and never being able to play with anyone but the same six or so faces, is equivalent to telling people "we don't want you in MWO anymore, so just leave."

Do y'all really think we have the player numbers for you to tell a significant portion of the most active and profitable players the game has left to simply take a hike and die?

[1453 R]

What 'shrill misrepresentation'? So-called Solo Only players have been pushing and pushing and pushing for a "GROUP ONLY QUEUE" that isolates anyone with friends from The Most Holy Solo Experience™ ever since Soup Queue became a thing.

And when you ask them "but what about the declining player count or the fact that Group Queue doesn't work because the matchmaker simply doesn't have enough Tetris pieces, so Group Queue is actually more of a soft ban on playing in groups at all?", the only answer you ever get is something in the vein of "I don't ******* care, that sounds like a Them Problem, if they wanna play fair and drop solo without their STUPID FRIENDS then they can get matches in less than an hour with the rest of us, but until they stop CHEATING and playing with their STUPID FRIENDS, they shouldn't be allowed to RUIN MY GAMES more than my own appalling lack of combat awareness, gunnery skill, and tactical courage already do!".

This has been going on for over half a decade now. No amount of "that's not what's happening" or "that would be a disaster to the game's already shaky player count" or "how do you propose introducing/training new players if you're not allowed to play with friends?" ever seems to get through - the only thing that ever matters is that some solo-monkey tryhard has decided that other people having friends is the only reason they lose games, and so Friends Must Be Banned so the tryhard can get back to gloriously winning every match by being Kai Allard-Liao and charging **** out across an open field alone into the teeth of fourteen enemy snipers, the way God and Jordan Weisman intended.

Biggz is right - cutting small groups out of the QP queue and giving People With Friends no option to play the game beyond private matching would be a devastating blow to the game's most active player core. I'm less convinced he's right that allowing larger groups into QP would be a problem the other way given how rare large groups are, and how rare it is for large groups to actually be tightly coordinated drops rather than a bunch of buddies just BSing on Discord with each other while shooting robits in the same general vicinity, but frankly I'm willing to take him at his word that it would cause Issues.

What I'm also convinced of, down to my girlish little soul, is that once the Solo Only Tryhards get what they want and cut People With Friends out of MWO altogether, the very next day they'll have found some new reason it's "Not My Fault I Lost!" and start ranting and kvetching about whatever new imaginary bugbear is preventing them from being the next Morgan Kell. Like Biggz said - the average gamer has no idea what they want. What the tryhards think they want is a Fair And Balanced Game Where Skill Determines The Victor. What they actually want is a steady stream of victories for the dopamine hit and ego stroking, and a steady string of excuses they can offer to salve their egos when the vagaries of a snowball-heavy game like MWO decides it's their turn to be the 2 in a 12-2 blowout. People With Friends are one of the tryhards' current favorite ego-salving punching clowns, but if you get rid of us they'll just find some other reason it's never their fault they lose a game.

You'll never make them happy because they don't want to be happy. Having something to ***** and complain about is a vital and necessary part of the play experience for the Solo Tryhard; get rid of everything they have to complain about and they'll declare the game "Dead" and move on to something that gives them the combination of Victory Dopamine and Excuses-Why-They-Don't-Suck that they actually want.

[1453 R]

All right, since folks think this post from MPG is The perfect Solution, let's see:

Magic Pain Glove, on 26 January 2024 - 01:18 AM, said:

Small population is not an unsurmountable problem as one can implement a hybrid system where you can create matches out of the same pool but only drag solos in if you don't have enough people to form a match after a certain wait time has been exceeded.

So you could have pure group queue and if lets say a 3 minute timer is exceeded some solos get dragged in to form a match. Essentially having split queue without creating additional buckets / player pools.

First of all, adding a three minute minimum tax to ALL group drops no matter the size is not really great. And second of all, do you honestly think Solo Only Tryhards would accept this? They want People With Friends to be banished from MWO forever specifically because they cannot tolerate being in a match where groups are present. Reducing the number of such matches while ensuring the matches they do get stuck with groups in will have larger/multiple groups only means those matches stick in their minds harder and get them to complain even more viciously.

Magic Pain Glove, on 26 January 2024 - 01:18 AM, said:

One of the reasons why the previous group queue died is because of uneven group sizes where you could have enough players in group queue but they would never be able to form a match ... like for example having four groups of 7 players.
There are enough players to form a 24 player match but because of group sizes in the previous group queue you could never form a match . So limiting group sizes to 2/4 ( and even 3 ) would result in MM being able to shuffle them much more easily than it was the case before.

So...you want to isolate People With Friends to a low-population queue that never pops unless it drags in Solo Only Tryhards who will be crotchety ******** about being "forced" to play with groups, causing People With Friends to have significantly fewer matches that are all of significantly lower quality because Solo Tryhards will throw the match just to get back to their Mosh Pit faster...and then STILL limit people to only ever dropping in groups of four or less?

Where's the upside to this proposal? Why not just admit you're looking to soft-ban People With Friends from MWO and be honest about it?

Magic Pain Glove, on 26 January 2024 - 01:18 AM, said:

Regarding Match Maker you can have have 24 concurrent players left playing the game at any given time ( queuing for matches ) and still shuffle them around until you create a balanced match by making each side ( using more accurate metrics AKA secondary MM balancing that was proposed and shown to PGI ) having a similar amount of skill , even if that was across all tiers . So no , things can be done . But as shown in multiple instances reluctance of players to pressure them on this and lack of PGI's will to dedicate resources to improve this problem leads to substantial player bleed over time . Especially on the part of solo pilots as good groups have a massive influence over match outcome and so do bad groups as well , maybe even more so.

sKiL b@s3d mAtChMaKiNg is way harder than anyone in this game is ever willing to admit. MWO has a whole lot of moving parts, accurately measuring precisely how 'Gud' every single player in the game is at any given point is effectively impossible. Even then, the thing Solo tryhards never realize? Even a match with twenty-four players of precisely equal skill can snowball into a 12-2 blowout.

This game is BUILT to produce blowouts. Two players of equal PSR/"sKiL" can be matched, but one of them is in a thunder-brawling Scorch and the other one is drunk and playing in a stock CN9 for the memes on his twelve-viewer Twitch stream and the matchmaking system has no way to know. Some players could be having off nights, some players could be on a serious hot streak, and both of those situations puts them outside the expectatioons the matchmaker is working with. The one-life-to-live issue means a single early mistake can cause a butterfly-effect ripple throughout an entire team and turn a match the matchmaker was convinced is perfect into a blowout.

There is no amount of matchmaking physically possible, with the technology humanity has developed, that will give sKiLc0r3 people what they profess to want - nothing but 12-11 nailbiters. And frankly, only dumb people want that. Those games are amazing and memorable precisely because they're rare, having every single game be a down-to-the-wire nailbiter would swiftly become incredibly stressful and rob those games of any real meaning.

Magic Pain Glove, on 26 January 2024 - 01:18 AM, said:

That's on top of the game itself having very long TTK so that skill disparity results in very snowbally matches if you have teammates that fail to dish out enough damage before they die . Resulting in you having to chew through excessive amounts of armor ( and absorb insane amount of firepower that's not concentrated on your paperdoll) that wouldn't be a problem in other games where you can chain headshots , but that's not the case here . You essentially get stat checked.

Which makes good matchups even more important in MWO than it is the case in other games because its harder to make a come back due to all those factors that I mentioned above.

News flash: game working as intended. Getting blown out is part of the normal MWO game experience. Does it suck, sure, but that's simply the sort of game MWO is. The fundamental, core design of the game means that blowouts are inevitable no matter what you do to the matchmaker, and banishing People With Friends from MWO forever has a precisely and exactly zero chance of changing that in the slightest. Solo Tryhards will get blown out precisely and exactly the same percentage of their matches they would if People With Friends were still allowed to play MWO - except they'd do it for far less time because losing all MWO Players With Friends from the game forever would quite possibly be a deathblow the game would never recover from. The proper response to getting blown out is to shrug, say "eh, such is game" and move on to your next match, not to kvetch on the forum for twenty years until Having Friends becomes a bannable offense.

Magic Pain Glove, on 26 January 2024 - 01:18 AM, said:

Soup queue made tonnage balancing worse , it broke spawn placements were all new maps now need to have consolidated spawnpoints since you cant split lances as people with heavy mechs might spawn on a spot that is designated for light mechs and most importantly it broke team balancing and was the only reason why we got some PSR changes after it got implemented. Since it directly resulted in more stompy matches overall.

It's also possibly the only reason MWO is still going. An online multiplayer-only game lives or dies by its concurrent player count, and MWO is a ten year old niche game that is intensely crunchy and difficult to pick up populated primarily by enormously hostile jerks who are deeply, viciously, and virulently opposed to any new player doing ANYTHING because unless you'vbe been playing the tabletop game for forty years this ain't your IP sonny, sod off and leave us gatekeeping 'Mechdads alone! The fact that MWO is still alive and being (sort of) supported and developed is frankly nothing short of a Christmas miracle, and continuing to push and argue for alienation and exile of anyone who dares to Have Friends is one of the dumbest things the remaining holdouts for this ten year old niche game could possibly do.

Magic Pain Glove, on 26 January 2024 - 01:18 AM, said:

But clueless people who asked for soup queue to be implemented never had such considerations or they didn't care . And no KingCobra as much as the forums hates compies sometimes , compies didn't ask for this change . Many of them were the ones who raised alarms regarding team balance problems but were promptly ignored by Paul and pro Soup crowd. Just go to this thread and give me the names of those comp pilots who asked for that change. So no, you dont get to blame this only an subset of players other than the individuals who asked for it (and even buzzed Russ on twitter about it constantly back in 2020) literally one of the worst changes done to the game throught its lifespan.

The only argument in their favor was "the power of friendship" , ignoring all other concerns and failing to demand improvements or changes to it after it was implemented . Now I wish to expand that to 12 players . Since we get these requests once every 2 months or so.

The argument in favor of 'Soup Queue' was "we have literally no other choice if we want the game to live." There are simply Not. Enough. Players. To do what you all seem to want and banish anyone with friends to some isolated Punishment Queue where the only thing they get to do is wait in a "Matching" screen forever regretting their life choices. Do that and you lose those players altogether instead, and then there's not enough concurrency or profit left in the game for it to survive.

Believe it or not, I don't think expanding groups beyond four would be a good idea right now. I'd like to be able to play with all my buddies at once instead of telling Buddy 4+ that unfortunately the game's full up and he needs to fly off a cliff and **** himself, but such is life in MWO. But I will be damned if I let Solo Tryhards keep up the hue and cry and the stupid shortsighted pointless desire to make Having Friends a bannable offense. Because hey - I wouldn't be here if my friend hadn't just decided to get into the game, and my friend wouldn't have gotten into the game if he hadn't known there were several other folks in our circle who played. Living proof that Having Friends drives player count up...y'know, if those friends are allowed to play together.


And now for this little 'gem'...

the check engine light, on 26 January 2024 - 10:46 AM, said:

I don't have the patience to read his screeds but I want better MM, not abolishment of groups.

I mean, demonstrably untrue? You are in fact specifically looking for the removal of groups in Quick Play, and for anyone not solo dropping to be cordoned off in the Punishment Queue, yes?

the check engine light, on 26 January 2024 - 10:46 AM, said:

Larger groups are a hard no and anyone who tries the "we spend more than youuuu" flex can urinate up a cord made of braided fibers.

It's not about "I specifically spend more than you do". It's about "the people who Have Friends and play with those friends are more likely to A.) attract new players, and B.) spend additional money on MWO than any but the extremely rare and unreliable Solo Whale - and Solo Whales are connected to the community enough that they tend to find Friends and end up dropping with them, as well." Banishing anyone with Friends from MWO forever means taking a big bite out of the revenue stream for the game, and it's already on life support levels of revenue as it is. Do you honestly think that's a good idea?

[1453 R]

Okay. Lemme TL;DR it for the Twitter generation that doesn't have the patience or capacity to participate in an adult conversation:

Ban People With Friends the way sKilc0r3 Solo Tryhards keep whining for, game dies. Banning PWF is stupid, for many reasons. Matchmaker CANNOT BE FIXED with technology human species possesses. Complicated game is complicated, algorithm not able to accurately gauge skill. Even IF algorithm could gauge skill, complicated game is fundamentally designed to result in blowouts. Even if algorithm could accurately gauge skill and game wasn't designed to result in blowouts, dumbasses meming on Twitch while drunk in bad fits would cause blowouts.

sKiLc0r3 losers need to chill the **** out and stop being salty about every single match not being a 12-11 nailbiter because, frankly, that would suck.

[Meep Meep]

The 'problem' with the mm isn't so much the mm itself but confirmation bias in outcomes. I've done some paper napkin tracking of blowouts vs close games and its about as common as a coin flip. The difference is that you tend to remember a two or three blowouts in a row but forget the dozen other games were it was either very close or at least something in the 12-6 range were earlier in the game it could have went either way.

Are groups an issue? Eh, sure when you get a sweaty t1 lance of tippy tops who luck into a mostly t3 lobby. But again thats still not the most common outcome just the most ~memorable~ so it sticks out from the background of other games. Also you are just as likely to be on the gud lances side than opposing so even that evens out. As to what can be done about it? Nothing except growing the active player base. Current base is just too small to afford enough tier seperation and still have a functioning mm.

[1453 R]

And again I ask - is that not the entire point of this and every single other one of the multitudinous thousands of "GROUPS AND MATCHMAKER ARE KILLING MWO FOREVER!!1!" threads the Solo Tryhard sKiLc0r3 wankers spawn every thirteen seconds? None of these threads ever have any actual valid concerns or points, given that everybody assumes Piranha's not Fixing The Matchmaker(C) out of some bizarre misplaced spite rather than because they cannot bloody "fix" it the way sKiLc0r3 people demand it be fixed.

If Piranha could create the sort of algorithm that would flawlessly, every single time without fail, perfectly predict human behavior based on limited data to the point of being able to generate a Perfect Match, Every Match, in a handful of seconds the way sKiLc0r3 nimrods insist on, do you know what they'd be doing? Making billions in the advertising and sciences sectors, not cranking out a few million a year in niche video games. A company that could do what y'all expect Piranha to just casually toss out in a day or two would stand a very good chance of becoming the next bloody Microsoft.

Gets just a little friggin' tiresome after, y'know, the hundred thousandth thread from sKiLc0r3 jackwaffles demanding everybody with friends Leave MWO Forever because their fragile little egos can't take it.

[Meep Meep]

You are in tier 4 which is the sweet spot of the mm. Plenty of tier 3 and 5 to fill out matches for quick drops and plenty of mechdads and casuals to lolz around with and not worry about sweaty premades stinking up your matches. So why are you complaining about things that don't effect you?

[SolCrusher]

1453 R, on 26 January 2024 - 07:15 PM, said:

And again I ask - is that not the entire point of this and every single other one of the multitudinous thousands of "GROUPS AND MATCHMAKER ARE KILLING MWO FOREVER!!1!" threads the Solo Tryhard sKiLc0r3 wankers spawn every thirteen seconds? None of these threads ever have any actual valid concerns or points, given that everybody assumes Piranha's not Fixing The Matchmaker(C) out of some bizarre misplaced spite rather than because they cannot bloody "fix" it the way sKiLc0r3 people demand it be fixed.

If Piranha could create the sort of algorithm that would flawlessly, every single time without fail, perfectly predict human behavior based on limited data to the point of being able to generate a Perfect Match, Every Match, in a handful of seconds the way sKiLc0r3 nimrods insist on, do you know what they'd be doing? Making billions in the advertising and sciences sectors, not cranking out a few million a year in niche video games. A company that could do what y'all expect Piranha to just casually toss out in a day or two would stand a very good chance of becoming the next bloody Microsoft.

Gets just a little friggin' tiresome after, y'know, the hundred thousandth thread from sKiLc0r3 jackwaffles demanding everybody with friends Leave MWO Forever because their fragile little egos can't take it.

I feel like we're in peak MWO now. sure it's on it's way out to pasture but what 10 year old game isn't?

So us old timers remember when you had to use teamspeak to talk with your group. There was no in game comms. You had to type stuff out. Honestly from the wall of text you publish I think you're 10 years late to the game.
I'm trying to remember, but I honestly can't. I think solo queue had groups in it. 8v8 then moved up to 12v12. I think the groups were capped at 8, then shrank or got their own group queue.

Anyways, we use to sync drop on teamspeak to get around match maker, i'm sure you could do that today with Discord.

Then there was a time on the weekend when people would jump on a big teamspeak server with I don't know 20 lobbies or something so every 24 player game could jump into a room. You could actually insult the other team over the mic and everything. It was great. Sometimes on slower nights the reds and blues would get their own rooms so you could to tactics and stuff.

Then they finally added in game comms and that ended all the real fun. The game was stompy robots with stompy matches.

It's still that now.

So yeah drop with 4 friends tell the 5th to go get bent, or find another and drop in 4 and 2 groups and face off. Fire up discord and bust each others balls over it.

You could get a whole group of 20 friends bustin' their balls in discord all playing MWO all having a great time. Some drinking, some sitting around all sweaty palmed and try harding all night.

This game definitely doesn't need more than 4 in a group in the only queue that has players left. December I dropped in 382 games.

You my friend haven't dropped in a game since 2022, I think that pretty much makes your complaints null and void.