19 replies to this topic

[OtterPlant]

Im probably a little late to the party with this but im noticing that clan omni pods dont all weigh the same. for example the cougar h left shoulder weighs one more ton than the cougar e left shoulder. but no where does the game inform you of this. is this accurate? a bug? literally everything else has a tonnage associated with it __except__ for the omni pods.

[1453 R]

The Cougar H left shoulder has two hard-mounted jump jets in it, with the weight and crit slots of those jump jets accounted for. When an OmniMech has pod-mounted jump jets in tabletop, Piranha bolts them immovably to the Omnipod. This was originally a measure to balance the TBR-S, which was a monster murderbeast at time of introduction, and has since become an annoyance we just have to deal with.

Edited by 1453 R, 16 February 2024 - 03:07 PM.

[OtterPlant]

that def explains why it weighs a ton more, thank you i had not noticed that. with that though, i do think it would be nice if omni pod tonnages were listed in the mech bay like everything else has. i mean its certainly a minor thing but still would be nice . i do realize you're probably not the one that makes those decisions however. just an idle thought i was having

Edited by OtterPlant, 16 February 2024 - 03:25 PM.

[kalashnikity]

Kit fox S legs weight one ton more (two half tone jump jets), etc, you get used to it.

[Cyborne Elemental]

When the clan mechs were first released, equipment aside from maybe armor allocation slots and some heatsinks (I'm unsure of non-engine-heatsinks) were "NOT" locked.

So you could take or leave JJ's mostly.

So, it wasn't really abused except with 1-2 variants of very few Clan mechs, and it wasn't as horrible as people make it out to be.

It actually made many interesting builds possible and variety makes for alot better gameplay overall IMHO.

Mechs didn't need ridiculous quirk buffs nearly as much, but balance was definitely leaning towards clan mechs being too powerful vs the state of IS mechs at the time.

And as you can't force the playerbase to play lore accurate Clan vs IS tactics, such as Clan war doctrine and generally using squads of 5 (Star) in a lance. Alot had to be changed for balance.

I think it was a poor choice to nerf all mechs because one or two were problems.

Although in Battletech LORE, legitimately Omnipods did have locked equipment for role deployment, build costs, repair costs, and all of the little background aspects that MWO does not translate from the TableTop rules.

Edited by Cyborne Elemental, 18 February 2024 - 08:04 AM.

[w0qj]

Breaking news!
https://mwomercs.com...-20february2024
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

Executioner EXE-B-C(LGD) gets: unique set of 2x ballistic arms; 1xJJ in each leg

Thank you MWO for listening to our suggestion for 1xJJ in each leg!

[Meep Meep]

So with the hag heat reduction we are basically almost back to launch stats only with no spread. Well that was a fun circular trip.

[1453 R]

The MWO base's hyper-aversion to jump jets will never cease to confuse me. All "yes, we want jump capacity! BUT ONLY ONE JET! MAYBE two! We really want jump capacity, but not enough jump capacity to actually get anywhere useful, open up new routes, or do anything else useful! The only reason we want jump capacity is so we can climb certain hills on certain maps a little bit faster!"

Like...why. Just use the ramps. if you're not gonna invest in enough jump capacity to JUMP, why invest in jump capacity at all? Not gonna lie, slicing half the jump capacity off the Sovereign makes it less appealing to buy, not more. Bleh.

[w0qj]

Personally, I feel that the EXE-B-C(LGD) bonuses can be split into Set-of-6, and Set-of-8 bonuses,
similar to that of the Viper Scaleshot Legendary Mech.

2x unique ballistic hardpoint arms (total 4x ballistic hardpoints!)
1x JJ per leg (total 2x JJ)

So one can swap in one or two Executioner legs from other variants (each with 2xJJ per leg) and still enjoy SO6 bonus.

Ditto for 2x unique ballistic hardpoint arms (total 4x ballistic hardpoints!); one can swap these in and still enjoy SO6 bonus!

Edited by w0qj, 17 February 2024 - 06:04 AM.

[Curccu]

1453 R, on 17 February 2024 - 05:32 AM, said:

The MWO base's hyper-aversion to jump jets will never cease to confuse me. All "yes, we want jump capacity! BUT ONLY ONE JET! MAYBE two! We really want jump capacity, but not enough jump capacity to actually get anywhere useful, open up new routes, or do anything else useful! The only reason we want jump capacity is so we can climb certain hills on certain maps a little bit faster!"

Like...why. Just use the ramps. if you're not gonna invest in enough jump capacity to JUMP, why invest in jump capacity at all? Not gonna lie, slicing half the jump capacity off the Sovereign makes it less appealing to buy, not more. Bleh.

It makes massive difference to get up from some "ramps" on some maps without JJs or with 1JJ, specially fatties also poptarting doesn't need many JJs either depending from how tall cover you are using.

[1453 R]

Sure but if you're going to invest in microhop capacity to get up that one single ramp on that one single map that's mildly more inconvenient to get up without a single jump jet, A.) again, why, just use a different ramp, or B.) why not invest in enough jump capacity to actually jump and access a huge array of new routes and angles of attack? Especially on smaller 'Mechs where the jump jets aren't as tonnage taxing?

[torsie]

I think you greatly undersell how value it gives you and especially to big mechs.

That 1 jump I have on my Blood Asp is absolute live saver, I dont need to fly around and I dont even have build for that, but the amount of tiny steps, ledges and bumps you can just hop on, instead of spending 5 minutes walking around with your 0.5km/h speed.

Putting more of them would not really give any more advantage and would eat even more of already precious tonnage limit.

You cant really hop 50 meters into air like spider with assault mech unless you spend 50 tons on jump jets. And if you do, you are just going to explode faster.

[1453 R]

I keep hearing that - "assaults can't jump anyways so why bother with more than one?"

My correction: assaults can't jump quickly. But they can jump. If you build for jets, you can easily access locations of the map nobody is ever expecting to see a DWF-C, or a BlAsp, or a Victor, or whatever else you have that actually gets more than half a meter of altitude. Back when the Warden pack first dropped, I lodged my full-jet, full thrust/burntime skilled Gaussvomit DWF-C in places no one had ever before seen a Dire Whale and got kills nobody would've called. The jets are a positioning and navigation tool, not a combat system. They give you ways to utilize the map that 'Mechs with no jump capacity (and I include One-Jetters in the 'no jump capacity' category) simply cannot match.

[torsie]

Now put those jump jets away and put up guns, if I put on my flying legs on blood asp it costs me 4 tons for one leg, that is 4 tons of heat sinks, ammo or lasers, or I can use 2 tons of jump jets, but I lose those high placed weapon places from side torso, and shooting over walls is much better than jumping and that would still give me only 2 jump jets total so I cant get anywhere.

I am not saying its bad but unhittable 2 meters tall mech flying through air at 150km/h gets more out of it than building slowly levitating into place with even less cover.

Edited by torsie, 17 February 2024 - 01:54 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

The only reason most players want jumpjets, but don't want full jets is usually to abuse the animation glitch that throws off hitboxes, or to have just enough to get up over the 1mm glitches in maps where you get caught on a ledge or w/e.

I prefer the EXEC with full Jets, even though it is tonnage you could put elsewhere, MASC + full Jump Jets = No stupid map slope or object is going to stop me from getting to where I want to go.

[CFC Conky]

A single jump jet is also useful for cushioning your mech’s legs when falling/jumping down, and it can help you turn faster (jump turn). They aren’t just for pop-tarting.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 17 February 2024 - 05:40 PM.

[1453 R]

Heh. This conversation reminds me of an old notion I'd discussed before. Virtually every problem people have with jump jets - the hitbox issues, Poptarting, sluggardly assault jets, all of it - could be solved by simply making jump jets into jump jets. Hit the button and the 'Mech rockets into the air, consuming a minimum amount of fuel to vault skyward like it suddenly owed gravity money. Make jumping explosive, a sudden surge of movement, rather than this bizarre floaty nonsense, and all the issues with jump jets everybody hates disappear.

Sure there'd be new issues, and there'd have to be a lot of balance work done on how such a system would operate, but let's be real - if pushing 'Jump' meant the 'Mech took off like a Tremors Assblaster, it would be way more fun. Heh.

[torsie]

That would be lot of fun.

I was thinking about different thing. What if you had simple math: to move XYtons up XYmeters you need XY thrust. Then you have several class of jump jets, each providing more thrust for more tons.

This way if you just need help with walking upstairs or slowing down fall you can put on one Class 1 jump jet and be done. And light mechs could reach orbit if they want by sacrificing some other things and puting on some big Class 20 jump jet for 20 tons.

I might be wrong, but I didnt see any mech that could equip different classes of jump jets, so why have them separated, instead of "universal" that simply has different stats. Or something like assault jump jets, since you cant put them on light mechs anyway.

[foamyesque]

1453 R, on 17 February 2024 - 06:20 PM, said:

Heh. This conversation reminds me of an old notion I'd discussed before. Virtually every problem people have with jump jets - the hitbox issues, Poptarting, sluggardly assault jets, all of it - could be solved by simply making jump jets into jump jets. Hit the button and the 'Mech rockets into the air, consuming a minimum amount of fuel to vault skyward like it suddenly owed gravity money. Make jumping explosive, a sudden surge of movement, rather than this bizarre floaty nonsense, and all the issues with jump jets everybody hates disappear.

Sure there'd be new issues, and there'd have to be a lot of balance work done on how such a system would operate, but let's be real - if pushing 'Jump' meant the 'Mech took off like a Tremors Assblaster, it would be way more fun. Heh.

We have that -- try a Viper or Spider sometime :v

[1453 R]

I have. I own, like...twelve Vipers. I was the person who originally campaigned to get the Viper added to MWO over (and then, later, in addition to) the Ice Hamster, though I cannot find that thread anymore. I'm a bad Viper player, heh, but I have scads of the things.

Vipers (and Spiders) are swift, sure. They have good thrust and enough juice to actually use jump jets to their (MWO) fullest, but their movement isn't explosive. I'm talking push the button and you are hurled violently into the sky, cockpit shaking the whole time, with a boom and a roar. Less Halo-esque floaty nonsense and more TF2 Rocket Jump.