283 replies to this topic

[Arnetheus]

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:54 PM, said:

Because quick play is hell and i play a nerfed mech.
...like theres some great argument against buffing the black knight which is one of the worst mechs in the game right now...

Holy copium. Still going on with this nonsense since page 1.
Yes, it's totally the mech holding you down. Even though people get to T1 in all kinds of meme mechs.

Quote

The min amount of armor for the rear is 7 imo

7 is minimum? It's almost as if putting so many points up-front instead would help a bit with survival.

BTW don't bother responding to this, since you ignored my first post in this thread anyway. I'm here as an observer to this discussion and i am entertained enough as is.

CFC Conky, on 08 March 2024 - 09:43 AM, said:

To be fair, one can be very good in a chassis/variant and not be in T1.

Being good in a chassis implies being successfull with it.
Saying out loud "i'm the best/one of the best players of X" several times, implies it doubly so.
Sorry, the logic doesn't check out.

And no, getting to T1 is not hard in the first place, considering the absence of the actual Tier 1 lobbies.

[Vite Ramen]

The secret to playing better with Black Knight is eating Vite Ramen

[ScrapIron Prime]

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:54 PM, said:

No amount of pedantic slander, although appreciatively demonstrative, will alter the truth; the orion hardpoints are too similar to the black knight and should definitely not be used to prop up whatever anti buff the black knight dogma you espouse to so devotedly

So lets do the math. 82= not enough god damn armor

Also, the orion has some pretty damn better quirks than the black knight.

We've been over this. Its the geometry of the model. You simply cannot miss the Orion side torsos, and you can hit the CT and LT from literally ANY angle. The Black Knight on the other hand can torso twist so that an enemy cannot target the CT easily and cannot target the opposite torso at all.

That's the reason for the difference in buffs.

[Bassault]

So me and BLXKNTRR did a bunch of 1v1s and in summary, after getting frustrated, BLXKNTRR learned that it was his build that was terrible, and he was doing a few things here and there wrong. Hopefully as he improves and learns even more about MWO, he will acknowledge that the black knight does not need to be buffed in it's current state.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 12:17 PM, said:

So me and BLXKNTRR did a bunch of 1v1s and in summary, after getting frustrated, BLXKNTRR learned that it was his build that was terrible, and he was doing a few things here and there wrong. Hopefully as he improves and learns even more about MWO, he will acknowledge that the black knight does not need to be buffed in it's current state.

He learned, or he observed? Big difference there... poking and twisting takes practice and self awareness, and most folks keep repeating the same mistakes and attribute them to other things. (Myself included.)

I do think it could use some better heat quirks though. Even good builds run a touch hot on that chassis.

Regardless, we await his update.

[Bassault]

ScrapIron Prime, on 08 March 2024 - 12:32 PM, said:

He learned, or he observed? Big difference there... poking and twisting takes practice and self awareness, and most folks keep repeating the same mistakes and attribute them to other things. (Myself included.)

I do think it could use some better heat quirks though. Even good builds run a touch hot on that chassis.

Regardless, we await his update.

He observed, learned a little. If he actually cares he'll learn how to do it perfectly in the future,

[ScrapIron Prime]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 12:57 PM, said:

He observed, learned a little. If he actually cares he'll learn how to do it perfectly in the future,

Speaking as a guy with MechDad reflexes, improving builds, technique, and awareness helps immensely, and a good lesson is worth a ton. Good on you for offering to tutor him, hopefully it went well.

[Curccu]

CFC Conky, on 08 March 2024 - 09:43 AM, said:

To be fair, one can be very good in a chassis/variant and not be in T1.

There isn't that weak chassis in this game that if someone claims to be best as there is for that chassis and said player plays that chassis and would not get into T1.

CFC Conky, on 08 March 2024 - 09:43 AM, said:

While getting to Tier 1 certainly denotes talent at playing MWO, it is not the sole arbiter when it comes to understanding the game.

I’ll save you some time looking up my stats, I gravitate between T4-T3. By virtue of time played I have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn’t but I’m not a great player. I also understand ice hockey even though I was never going to be good enough to play in the NHL.

If being top-tier is the only way to understand a game/sport then every coach and/or trainer in top-league professional sports would be a former star.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

True that specially in real sports. but I have seen hundreds self proclaimed drop commanders in this game that have no freakin clue how this game works as a pilot or tactical and they make so stupid calls that following those would be almost automatic loss.

[Alexander of Macedon]

BLXKNTRR, on 07 March 2024 - 08:54 PM, said:

Ive never heard of calling the armor "quirks" but now i understand what you mean.

No amount of pedantic slander, although appreciatively demonstrative, will alter the truth; the orion hardpoints are too similar to the black knight and should definitely not be used to prop up whatever anti buff the black knight dogma you espouse to so devotedly

And the reason you were so unclear is simply math is wrong. Everyone who plays the black knight inevitably has armor skilled and skeletal density skilled. The min amount of armor for the rear is 7 imo

So lets do the math. 82= not enough god damn armor

Also, the orion has some pretty damn better quirks than the black knight. I love the way you haters (?not sure what to call you really) have 1 million lies to pretend like theres some great argument against buffing the black knight which is one of the worst mechs in the game right now given its size to armor ration with the current meta, when there is absolutely none.

And im not angry. I reply on work breaks, i dont have much time, and using my phone means to errors are inevitable

If you're so ignorant of the game that you don't know what armor quirks are, you don't have anything useful to contribute. That or you're trolling.

[MarcinT1981]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 10:23 AM, said:

No, you're wrong. Tier 1 is the bare minimum. There are people who play terrible mechs and terrible builds, hardly react when they get shot yet they are max bar tier 1.

I agree in 100%. In fact, I am the best example of this myself. I often make mistakes when taking positions, I often move my torso too little and sometimes too much. I can be too aggressive and it happens not so rarely that I die first.
And yet I have 95% progress Tier 1. And I'm entering here for the third time.

[BLXKNTRR]

Alexander of Macedon, on 08 March 2024 - 03:41 PM, said:

If you're so ignorant of the game that you don't know what armor quirks are, you don't have anything useful to contribute. That or you're trolling.

I can contribute deez bolts

Yea i wasnt thinking about them that way.my mistake

[BLXKNTRR]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 12:57 PM, said:

He observed, learned a little. If he actually cares he'll learn how to do it perfectly in the future,

Bassault is accurate and highly aware and attuned. He beat me. I learned a little from someone who has alot to teach, but I still hope to learn more

My build is a facetime build. It is not suited for 1 v1

I had a tiny bit more lucky in front load builds. My sensitivity is too high, my twisting unpolished comparatively

I would still like a buff to the black knight, but perhaps i was too entrenched in my preconceptions and wanting a better platform for my facetime loadout.

Overall, my fire for mwo has been rekindled, knowing now how much better players await me in tier 1

[Bassault]

BLXKNTRR, on 08 March 2024 - 04:07 PM, said:

My build is a facetime build. It is not suited for 1 v1

Just to be clear, some facetime builds are really good in 1v1. Xpulse atlas, bushwackers, some Annihilators. They usually have to be really tanky though.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Back to the OP.

After alot of playing, I honestly miss the days when mechs had more structure quirks and less armor quirks.

With HGR, HAG, MRM, BLC, HLL, big damage weapons strip armor so fast, and if you get focused its like.. insta-death.

Its not just the Black-Knight that needs armor balancing on arms and additional structure points, there are about 15 mechs I can name off the top of my head that are like that.

LBX, PPC's, MG's and Flamers are there to deal with structure crits.

The game used to feel like battles lasted longer, and an open armor spot wasn't a death sentence under most circumstances.

I'm not sure when this big switch to dropping internal structure to minimal stats, and up-armoring began, but it has definitely changed the feel of combat, and not in a good way.

Edited by Cyborne Elemental, 08 March 2024 - 05:44 PM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Arnetheus, on 08 March 2024 - 11:01 AM, said:

Holy copium. Still going on with this nonsense since page 1.
Yes, it's totally the mech holding you down. Even though people get to T1 in all kinds of meme mechs.


7 is minimum? It's almost as if putting so many points up-front instead would help a bit with survival.

BTW don't bother responding to this, since you ignored my first post in this thread anyway. I'm here as an observer to this discussion and i am entertained enough as is.


Being good in a chassis implies being successfull with it.
Saying out loud "i'm the best/one of the best players of X" several times, implies it doubly so.
Sorry, the logic doesn't check out.

And no, getting to T1 is not hard in the first place, considering the absence of the actual Tier 1 lobbies.

Hey I said im about as good as it gets. Meaning im pretty good in a gimped loadout in qp. Better in the polished tier 1 style builds. But im not the best...YET.

Relax

Cyborne Elemental, on 08 March 2024 - 05:43 PM, said:

Back to the OP.

After alot of playing, I honestly miss the days when mechs had more structure quirks and less armor quirks.

With HGR, HAG, MRM, BLC, HLL, big damage weapons strip armor so fast, and if you get focused its like.. insta-death.

Its not just the Black-Knight that needs armor balancing on arms and additional structure points, there are about 15 mechs I can name off the top of my head that are like that.

LBX, PPC's, MG's and Flamers are there to deal with structure crits.

The game used to feel like battles lasted longer, and an open armor spot wasn't a death sentence under most circumstances.

I'm not sure when this big switch to dropping internal structure to minimal stats, and up-armoring began, but it has definitely changed the feel of combat, and not in a good way.

I couldn't agree more, but the tier 1 mafia has spoken

All i can say is dont hold your breath.

Structure quirks makes the lucky 7 charger really fun. I recommend getting one of those and mastering it

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 08 March 2024 - 06:08 PM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 05:01 PM, said:

Just to be clear, some facetime builds are really good in 1v1. Xpulse atlas, bushwackers, some Annihilators. They usually have to be really tanky though.

Yea thats why the black knight would be better tankier, as would many other mechs. Frustrating

Does that mean the black knight needs a buff. Still yes in my opinion. Overall our 1v1 says little about black knights in qp on their journey to tier 1, other than meta vomit for the win- aside from your skill which is a huge factor. Id like to 1v1 more with you using my loadout to learn more.

Now, if theres was a vote and everyone agreed I am wrong or partially wrong, or need to wait for other mechs to get attention im fine with that

Admittedly, its my disappointment in the reaper 2 not being the mxp laser hppc platform described in lore that, to a large extent drove me to create this post. And playing so many qp matches with my loadout has given me the vulnerability of less twisting and shielding with arms
I have always felt thst the black knight was too big. And feels easily destroyed with it being a billboard for thr enemy

But clearly I need to reassess my playstyle andloadout in order to outclass you and other tier 1s

Tldr:
Im not entirely convinced the black knight is perfect where its at, but getting better and using more suited loadouts is on the road to tier 1 anyways

Edited by BLXKNTRR, 08 March 2024 - 06:25 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Cyborne Elemental, on 08 March 2024 - 05:43 PM, said:

LBX, PPC's, MG's and Flamers are there to deal with structure crits.

Crits are and have been a bad mechanic. They contribute to snowballing when there doesn't need to be any additional help, this game already snowballs too much IMO. In a game where damage locations are random and some mechs can "zombie" and the game is played like a strategy game, it makes a bit more sense. Here no.

There is nothing worse than your weapon getting crit out immediately upon your armor getting opened up. There is no reason for a second "destruction" mechanic so certain weapons can be better when the problem for them has always just been lack of damage overall and a lack of consistency.

That said, I'd love to see more consistency with overall health quirks to not be lopsided outside of gimmicks like the N7. If only because it can be deceiving sometimes with gauging how hurt you actually are, and that's only really because of how we are stuck with the awful paper doll and not something like HTAL bars.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 08 March 2024 - 09:51 PM.

[Bassault]

BLXKNTRR, on 08 March 2024 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yea thats why the black knight would be better tankier, as would many other mechs. Frustrating

Does that mean the black knight needs a buff. Still yes in my opinion. Overall our 1v1 says little about black knights in qp on their journey to tier 1, other than meta vomit for the win- aside from your skill which is a huge factor. Id like to 1v1 more with you using my loadout to learn more.

Now, if theres was a vote and everyone agreed I am wrong or partially wrong, or need to wait for other mechs to get attention im fine with that

Admittedly, its my disappointment in the reaper 2 not being the mxp laser hppc platform described in lore that, to a large extent drove me to create this post. And playing so many qp matches with my loadout has given me the vulnerability of less twisting and shielding with arms
I have always felt thst the black knight was too big. And feels easily destroyed with it being a billboard for thr enemy

But clearly I need to reassess my playstyle andloadout in order to outclass you and other tier 1s

Tldr:
Im not entirely convinced the black knight is perfect where its at, but getting better and using more suited loadouts is on the road to tier 1 anyways

The black knight can be tanky if it twists because the hitboxes aren't the worst and it has a lot of armor quirks. If it stares, however, it can easily be focused in the CT. Think of mechs like the Annihilator that can stare or barely twist and shake off a lot of damage. Meanwhile a mech like the highlander IIC or executioner will get cored out instantly if it stares, but if it constantly twists it will tank a considerable amount of damage.

Due to this, I think the black knight has to take advantage of high alphastrike builds more than other mechs, because it cannot afford to be staring.

Edited by Bassault, 08 March 2024 - 10:28 PM.

[BLXKNTRR]

Bassault, on 08 March 2024 - 10:27 PM, said:

The black knight can be tanky if it twists because the hitboxes aren't the worst and it has a lot of armor quirks. If it stares, however, it can easily be focused in the CT. Think of mechs like the Annihilator that can stare or barely twist and shake off a lot of damage. Meanwhile a mech like the highlander IIC or executioner will get cored out instantly if it stares, but if it constantly twists it will tank a considerable amount of damage.

Due to this, I think the black knight has to take advantage of high alphastrike builds more than other mechs, because it cannot afford to be staring.

so can we get a buff so it can afford to be staring? or a quirk for mxpl on the 6? A coupon for bed bath and beyond?

[Tiy0s]

"I wonder how that Black Knight thread is doing"

10 pages

Oh great heavens