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New Weapons Showcase / Q&a - Vod & Links


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#1 Temporary Axis

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 12:58 AM

PGI Frostbye (Tobos) + Cauldron members sat down on Justcallmeash's stream today to showcase new upcoming weapons in the March Patch.

Many thanks to PGI for making this available.

Links for everything below!!!

VOD Link - Has demos and a Q&A that went for about 45mins or so. Some interesting info about the new weapons etc.

Direct Google drive links to the nontent: These new weapons will be coming in the March patch, so keep an eye out for Patch Notes when they drop.

The VOD is also worth a watch for the hints to other content coming in future patches.

Any Qs ask here or on Cauldron feedback discord - https://discord.gg/CMGhzyEb.

Edited by Temporary Axis, 10 March 2024 - 01:34 AM.


#2 Ttly

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM

can you shoot more than 2 ap/mgauss at the same time?
what's stopping me from mounting 8ap gauss on a mist lynx and poptarting someone for 16 damage at medium laser range for the entire match?

can the tb missiles be fired without lock on or are they like streak srms?
whats the hp for each tb missiles and on each launcher variation? for ams reasons

how long is the beam laser ramp down? also the ramp delay
and due to it not benefitting from -cd and -laser duration quirks, what are its supposed selling point?

why are tb missiles the lowest velocity missiles in the game, why should i ever bring a tbm5 over lrm5? not only is it slower, it also only fires 1 missile which makes it extra vulnerable to AMS, and has less range

why do pac8s only have 270m range or the same as IS AC20 on a clan mech?

what are the crit damage modifiers on these weapons?

sbgauss spread seems to be too narrow and that they're just a superior gauss rifle in any range less than 500m

why bother with the heat damage on plasma cannon? they seem to only exist as frills and to justify it being hotter/longer cd than it should be

no i dont have questions regarding the l/pac 2 and 4/5 because they're pretty boring outside maybe the critdmgmod on these weapons

Edited by Ttly, 10 March 2024 - 08:36 AM.


#3 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 09:22 AM

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

can you shoot more than 2 ap/mgauss at the same time?


The 2 weapons at the same time limitation is explicitly a "feature" of weapons that do have a charge up time. Neither magshot nor ap gauss do have charge up (they instantly fire) => you'll be able to shoot more than 2.

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

what's stopping me from mounting 8ap gauss on a mist lynx and poptarting someone for 16 damage at medium laser range for the entire match?


Initially (for the first month) not much is going to stop you from doing that (other than running out of ammo as far as "the entire match" is concerned)... and depending on how "unbalanced" or "problematic" it turns out you'll probably see GH number limits as well as (potentially insanely high) GH multipliers being introduced.

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

whats the hp for each tb missiles and on each launcher variation? for ams reasons

4 HP per missile

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

how long is the beam laser ramp down? also the ramp delay


It would appear that there's no ramp down or ramp delay, just plain 3 heat per second and whatever it takes a mech to cooldown from whatever heat vaule you reached while firing the laser (plus whatever else).

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

and due to it not benefitting from -cd and -laser duration quirks, what are its supposed selling point?


the relative high 5 dps at in a "staring" competition. It has a comparable range of a C-Heavy Large and almost double of the dps of said C-Heavy Large. Its window of opportunity anything above 3.50 seconds and below 6.95 seconds of fire: 18 to 34.75 points of damge where the C Heavy Large has done 18 points of damage without a second shot.

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

why do pac8s only have 270m range or the same as IS AC20 on a clan mech?


I guess that boils down to "Lore" a.k.a. original range values of TT.

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 08:13 AM, said:

why bother with the heat damage on plasma cannon? they seem to only exist as frills and to justify it being hotter/longer cd than it should be


Probably to retain
A ) the illusion of some semblence of the original TT weapon (that was all about heat)
B ) the motif for clan weapons where a clan version is in some way "better" than its IS counterpart

#4 TravelingMaster

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 09:43 AM

View PostDer Geisterbaer, on 10 March 2024 - 09:22 AM, said:


The 2 weapons at the same time limitation is explicitly a "feature" of weapons that do have a charge up time. Neither magshot nor ap gauss do have charge up (they instantly fire) => you'll be able to shoot more than 2.



Initially (for the first month) not much is going to stop you from doing that (other than running out of ammo as far as "the entire match" is concerned)... and depending on how "unbalanced" or "problematic" it turns out you'll probably see GH number limits as well as (potentially insanely high) GH multipliers being introduced.


4 HP per missile



It would appear that there's no ramp down or ramp delay, just plain 3 heat per second and whatever it takes a mech to cooldown from whatever heat vaule you reached while firing the laser (plus whatever else).



the relative high 5 dps at in a "staring" competition. It has a comparable range of a C-Heavy Large and almost double of the dps of said C-Heavy Large. Its window of opportunity anything above 3.50 seconds and below 6.95 seconds of fire: 18 to 34.75 points of damge where the C Heavy Large has done 18 points of damage without a second shot.



I guess that boils down to "Lore" a.k.a. original range values of TT.



Probably to retain
A ) the illusion of some semblence of the original TT weapon (that was all about heat)
B ) the motif for clan weapons where a clan version is in some way "better" than its IS counterpart


Plasma cannon also does more damage. +1 splash to each 'side', meaning a max of 6.5 damage.

#5 Ttly

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 09:48 AM

View PostDer Geisterbaer, on 10 March 2024 - 09:22 AM, said:

snip


5dps is comparable to a rac2, it's not that impressive if you only mount one, and just like the rac2 it even has 3gh limit at least
and it does work like a flamer with ramp down duration and ramp delay, you'd know this if you've watched the video and paid attention to the beam laser weapon group window meter on the video
the problem is the video did not showcase the ramp down whatsoever
also comparing it to hll is kind of meh, at least compare it to the clpl, the weapon it shares the same slot and tonnage use with

pac8 or other weapons being terrible just to be "lore accurate" isnt a good excuse either, if that's the case then most autocannons would be way worse and mech geometry doesn't matter

also uhh is that really it with the tbm? almost no reason to use it over lrm5 other than the fact that it's a pinpoint random limb targeting damage like streak srms unlike lrms that always aim for center mass?

Edited by Ttly, 10 March 2024 - 09:57 AM.


#6 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 10:02 AM

View PostTravelingMaster, on 10 March 2024 - 09:43 AM, said:

Plasma cannon also does more damage. +1 splash to each 'side', meaning a max of 6.5 damage.


And that relates how exactly to the proposed potential reason behind still having a (miniscule) heat effect?

********************

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 09:48 AM, said:

5dps is comparable to a rac2,


Indeed ... with the obvious caveat: RAC2 is an IS weapon and the beam laser will be a Clan weapon.

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 09:48 AM, said:

it's not that impressive if you only mount one, and just like the rac2 it even has 3gh limit at least


So?

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 09:48 AM, said:

and it does work like a flamer with ramp down duration and ramp delay, you'd know this if you've watched the video and paid attention to the beam laser weapon group window meter on the video


~laugh~ Isn't it funny that you're now accusing me of something that you yourself are qulty of? Some of your questions - like e.g. the one about missile health or 2+ weapons being fired - were answered in the VOD available video of the stream ;) which you could have known had you actually watched and paid attention to it.

So yeah, I obviosuly missed the ramp up (and the presumably existing ramp down) but surprisingly enough what was it exactly that I wrote? It would appear... <= There was ambiguity there for a reason.

#7 Ttly

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 10:15 AM

View PostDer Geisterbaer, on 10 March 2024 - 10:02 AM, said:

snip

I don't have time to watch every single streams related to something, also no timestamps on where x is mentioned, etc.

Doesn't dismiss that you didn't even paid attention to the weapon group window on the video that did got posted on this thread regardless.
Also on the video there wasn't even that much heat while the meter wasn't filled, if it's like the flamer it still generates heat, just much less so than while meter is filled, if so how much per second? Can't tell if the Dire Wolf is So8 or not either since it's the mech with a big -heat% quirk too in that case.

Edited by Ttly, 10 March 2024 - 10:31 AM.


#8 TravelingMaster

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 10:18 AM

View PostDer Geisterbaer, on 10 March 2024 - 10:02 AM, said:


And that relates how exactly to the proposed potential reason behind still having a (miniscule) heat effect?



"the motif for clan weapons where a clan version is in some way 'better'' than its IS counterpart"

I was responding to this, the heat alone isn't what makes them 'better', the weapon does more physical damage.

#9 Battlemaster56

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 11:49 AM

Can't wait to use plasma cannons on my ATM Timberwolf D can finally drop the light tag for it.

#10 Ttly

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 01:10 PM

I got bored so I went and calculated DPS and DPH of the new weapons and comparing it to other existing weapons I guess.

Plasma Cannon:
DPS: 1.86 with splash, this is comparable, slightly higher to LPPCs. cERPPC has 3 by the way.
DPS: 1.28 without splash, pretty meh pinpoint DPS. cERPPC has 2.
DPH: 0.92 with splash, the cERPPC has 1.03 with splash so this is actually less heat efficient.
DPH: 0.64 without splash, aaargh, somehow worse than the cERPPC's 0.69 without splash.
ORange: 540m, with same velocity as cERPPCs this seems fine, less overkill.
The heat damage is a total whatever at 0.25 heat.
Anyway, compared to cERPPC you can use 2PLCs for superior DPS thanks to its faster cooldown, should generally be easier to use thanks to that too as long as you don't shoot too much to overheat.

Beam Laser:
DPS: 5, slightly above LXPL but doesn't benefit from laser duration and cooldown quirks so effectively lower in most cases.
DPH: 1.66 (?), it has a ramp up/down mechanic like the flamer so this part is pretty vague.
ORange: 600m, pretty good range actually.
Ramp up: Fills the meter within 5 seconds of constant firing on the video, same as the flamer. If it's like the flamer then all mounted beam lasers ramps up when one is fired.
Ramp down: If it's the same as the flamer then it begins ramping down after not firing for 5 seconds and fully ramps down from full meter within 5 seconds.
It's supposed to be comparable to LXPL but the flamer ramp mechanic seems to hold it back.

SBGauss:
DPS: 4.28, significantly higher than IS Gauss' 3.53 but it comes in the form of 3 projectile spread instead, comparable DPS to IS AC/LB10 except with even more range and velocity.
DPH: it's gauss, basically no heat
Spread: 0.4, this is less than LB2, the most accurate spread weapon in the game.
Basically a superior gauss rifle as long as you don't strictly use it for sniping.
Explosion damage: 20
If it has same as gauss then 16 item health, I guess it's pretty vulnerable to crits? But meh, most people don't really know how to play with MGs.


AP/MGauss:
DPS: 1, less than HMG but this is pinpoint instant damage that does 2 damage per hit.
DPH: lol, 4 I guess?
DPHit: 2
Range: Comparable to std medium lasers, very workable.
Mount 4-8 of these on a Mist Lynx/Arctic Cheetah or an Locust/Javelin like they're HMGs and poke people at medium laser range like they're AC2.
Pretty annoying how the IS version is 2 slot so you can't do 10 MGauss Crael but whatever.
5 explosion damage but item health is not listed, but on an light mech if a limb lost its armor and got hit by a crit, then it's going to get destroyed anyway gauss explosion or not.

Thunderbolt:
5 DPS: 1.54, lower than SSRM 2 which weighs 1.5 ton less.
10 DPS: 2.7, lower than SSRM 6 which weighs 2.5 ton less.
15 DPS: 3.75, actually the same as LRM15 but weighs as much as an LRM20 which has 4.65 DPS.
20 DPS: 4.65, same DPS as LRM20 but at 15 tons it's just too heavy.
DPH: Whatever, same as IS LRMs.
Behaves like streak SRMs but with MRM range and goes for center mass like LRMs if the video is to be believed, terrible velocity and unclear indirect fire angle.
Seems pretty bad just from the weight alone, somehow even worse than LRMs are you ask me.
Missile health is supposedly 4 each which is pretty high but low count makes it very vulnerable to AMS regardless.

PAC2:
DPS: 1.33, the AC2 has 2.78 meanwhile, but if you're using the PAC2 for hit and run this shouldn't matter too much.
DPH: 3.33 not gonna overheat from these due to the longer cooldown.
1600 velocity instead of AC2's 1800, a total whatever, you're still going to hit what you want.
ORange: 600m, less overkill, pretty much plays the same except you can't snipe as far

Weighs 3.5, and 2 slots.
Compared to a single cAC2 (5t 3s). Might be slightly better for hit and run attacks where you can't expose yourself long enough for cAC2's better DPS to matter.
Alright, but what about comparing it to the cUAC2 which weighs the same as cAC2?
This thing is just bad.

PAC4:
DPS: 2, cAC5 has 3.57, cUAC5 has 4.04.
DPH: 2.66, hotter than cUAC2 or cUAC10s actually, but who cares with its longer cooldown.
ORange: 450m, still decent, should play almost the same as cAC5s with some range skill nodes.

Same deal as PAC2, better at hit and run but you could just not cheap out on tonnage and grab a cUAC5?
I guess some mediums might try these out since it's only 4.5t 3 slots instead of 7t.

PAC8:
DPS: 2.66, Huh, slightly more than PAC4.
DPH: 2.66, Huh, the same as PAC4.
ORange: 270m, bad.

At 5.5t 4 slots, just grab a cUAC2 unless you really want to drive close to someone's rear, blast them, and take off.

LAC2:

DPS: 1.33, AC2 has 2.78
DPH: 3.33, AC2 has 4, a whatever with the longer cd.
ORange: 540m, less overkill than AC2's 720m, at 1600 velocity instead of 1800 should play pretty much the same.

A very whatever weapon, I guess some lights might use 2LAC2 instead of 1AC2 to do funny stuff thanks to being 4t 1s instead of 6t 1s like the AC2.

LAC5:
DPS: 2.32, AC5 has 3.57
DPH: 3.33, still a whatever especially with the longer cd.
ORange: 450m, plays the same as AC5 with some skill nodes on range.

At 5 tons 2 slots you could just use an UAC2 instead which is 7 tons 3 slots?
Same deal as the PAC4, good for hit and run.

Edited by Ttly, 10 March 2024 - 06:03 PM.


#11 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 02:32 PM

People should stop comparing the LAC2 and LAC5 to their non-light counterparts because they aren't competing with those weapons as weird as it seems. You need to compare the LAC2 with the AC5 and the LAC5 with the AC10 because that's the weapons they run the risk of invalidating (its not the first mechwarrior they've been added to, MW4 mods struggled with this exact scenario).

#12 Ttly

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 02:41 PM

View PostQuicksilver Aberration, on 10 March 2024 - 02:32 PM, said:

People should stop comparing the LAC2 and LAC5 to their non-light counterparts because they aren't competing with those weapons as weird as it seems. You need to compare the LAC2 with the AC5 and the LAC5 with the AC10 because that's the weapons they run the risk of invalidating (its not the first mechwarrior they've been added to, MW4 mods struggled with this exact scenario).


This isn't MW4, there's only so many ballistic hardpoints a mech can have.

#13 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 02:42 PM

View PostTtly, on 10 March 2024 - 02:41 PM, said:

This isn't MW4, there's only so many ballistic hardpoints a mech can have.

This may not be MW4, but you act like mechs weren't limited there either or that there is a fundamental difference between the two......

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 10 March 2024 - 02:42 PM.


#14 1453 R

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 09:17 AM

So not gonna lie? I do not foresee Magshot/AP Gauss staying at these numbers. They're strictly better machine guns in basically every way that counts. Same DPS as standard machine guns with twice the nominal range and the benefit of PPFLD. All the 'Mechs with scads of ballistic hardpoints to enable mass boating of machine guns are about to become blatantly ridiculous. The Warthog Adder will be able to throw out 28 PPFLD damage every two seconds, largely heat-free.

I really like the idea/role of those weapons - small, quick-firing Gauss weapons specifically built for dogfighting light 'Mechs. But man. The numbers just seem wild to me.

#15 Ttly

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 09:22 AM

View Post1453 R, on 11 March 2024 - 09:17 AM, said:

So not gonna lie? I do not foresee Magshot/AP Gauss staying at these numbers. They're strictly better machine guns in basically every way that counts. Same DPS as standard machine guns with twice the nominal range and the benefit of PPFLD. All the 'Mechs with scads of ballistic hardpoints to enable mass boating of machine guns are about to become blatantly ridiculous. The Warthog Adder will be able to throw out 28 PPFLD damage every two seconds, largely heat-free. I really like the idea/role of those weapons - small, quick-firing Gauss weapons specifically built for dogfighting light 'Mechs. But man. The numbers just seem wild to me.


Pffft, of course not, only AP gauss will get nerfed. Magshot gauss will stay as it is because 2 slots is enough of a downside!
Now watch as I plink that guy for 8MGauss+40MRMs on my Crael.
Example MGauss Crael loadout: https://mwo.nav-alph...d588b2fd_CRD-CR

Edited by Ttly, 11 March 2024 - 09:24 AM.


#16 1453 R

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 09:33 AM

I ain't talking to you, you hate everything and want all the new weapons to fail. Me, I'm real excited to see what interesting new builds and strategies come out centered on these critters. Plasma cannons look/sound fly as hecc, the Clan Light Resurgence will soon be upon us. Just not sure the Minigauss numbers aren't bonkers. But hey, everything'll get adjusted in the months to come.

#17 Ttly

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 09:38 AM

View Post1453 R, on 11 March 2024 - 09:33 AM, said:

I ain't talking to you, you hate everything and want all the new weapons to fail. Me, I'm real excited to see what interesting new builds and strategies come out centered on these critters. Plasma cannons look/sound fly as hecc, the Clan Light Resurgence will soon be upon us. Just not sure the Minigauss numbers aren't bonkers. But hey, everything'll get adjusted in the months to come.


Where did you even get that from?
My statements have been mostly neutral, you just projected that my deduction of throwing numbers around for them concludes that I wish for them to fail for whatever reason.

If anything I wish some of them get buffed, why else would I complain about the TBMissiles being too slow or the plasma cannon being too hot?
Only the SBGauss made my eye really roll with how much better it is than normal gauss in most cases on paper.

Actually, looking at the video again.
Do SBGauss have shorter charge time than IS Gauss too? It didn't feel like 0.75s.

Edited by Ttly, 11 March 2024 - 09:59 AM.


#18 GargoyleVine

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 09:52 AM

plasma cannon sounds sick !!

#19 Wraith 1

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Posted 13 March 2024 - 02:15 PM

Sweet Kerensky, I just realized that the FLE-19 has a generic 40% cooldown quirk. Going to need to go armorless to have enough ammo, but that's 16 PPFLD with a 1 second cooldown after skill tree. 15% range and 35% velocity will be nice too.

#20 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 13 March 2024 - 06:16 PM

View PostWraith 1, on 13 March 2024 - 02:15 PM, said:

Sweet Kerensky, I just realized that the FLE-19 has a generic 40% cooldown quirk. Going to need to go armorless to have enough ammo, but that's 16 PPFLD with a 1 second cooldown after skill tree. 15% range and 35% velocity will be nice too.

Too bad it's getting changes alongside the patch to ruin anyone's plans for that.





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