31 replies to this topic

[kalashnikity]

Thank you for not ruining my MRM10 + SNPPC build.

But, I see it has been nerfed for Magshot down to only a 15% cooldown. I can see the logic.

Unfortunately there are no stealth lights that can be used as Magshot boats, that's would have been fun, for values of fun.

[dario03]

FLE-19 doesn't have ecm/stealth though. Neither does the other ballistic Fleas FLE-FA and FLE-15.

The Locust Pirates Bane does so you could run magshot stealth on that, but it only has 2B and both in CT, so only one magshot.

[LordNothing]

want to see if i can run a couple lac2s on my pirates bane. flea might be better though.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Most of the light LAC builds I was looking at don't feel like they'll be viable without substantial ammo quirks. No point spending all your tonnage on them when your ammo limits you to <400 potential damage.

[1453 R]

I'm not sure the lack of 25% cooldown will really slow the FLE-19 down.

The light peep doesn't match up perfectly with the Magshots' cooldown, and frankly it doesn't mesh all that well in general, but it's still 21.5 pinpoint damage wherever you want it with a single click on a 'Mech going 160+. 16 of it every two seconds, and the light peep lets the thing bother folks at a distance if it has to. It's a vastly better use of the FLE-19 than any form of machine gun buggery has ever been.

Edited by 1453 R, 16 March 2024 - 08:45 PM.

[Wraith 1]

1453 R, on 16 March 2024 - 06:43 PM, said:

I'm not sure the lack of 25% cooldown will really slow the FLE-19 down.

Ammo?

[caravann]

Wraith 1, on 16 March 2024 - 10:41 PM, said:

Ammo?

Hardpoints

[1453 R]

I did, in fact, forget the bullets like a dweeb. Derp. I was real tired yesterday. Yohkei, forget the light peep. Frankly even just eight magshots by themselves is a way better build on the FLE-19 than anything you can do with machine guns. It really feels like machine guns just became obsolete in the strong majority of cases, you have no real good reason to run machine guns over Microgauss without some Srs Bsns rate-of+fire quirks or such to push the machine guns ahead.

Edited by 1453 R, 17 March 2024 - 05:55 AM.

[Meep Meep]

1453 R, on 17 March 2024 - 05:54 AM, said:

I did, in fact, forget the bullets like a dweeb. Derp. I was real tired yesterday. Yohkei, forget the light peep. Frankly even just eight magshots by themselves is a way better build on the FLE-19 than anything you can do with machine guns. It really feels like machine guns just became obsolete in the strong majority of cases, you have no real good reason to run machine guns over Microgauss without some Srs Bsns rate-of+fire quirks or such to push the machine guns ahead.

Slots will be the limiting factor on spamming them since its double the slots of mg.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Meep Meep, on 17 March 2024 - 03:43 PM, said:

Slots will be the limiting factor on spamming them since its double the slots of mg.

On some (Pirate's Bane and PIR-1 come to mind) certainly. I think some others it's more going to be the ammo-per-ton, which I don't think has been explicitly stated anywhere. Unless it's 200+ shots-per-ton or we see a lot of Magshot/AP Gauss ammo quirks on lights IDK how many 'mechs will have useful amounts of potential damage with them.

[1453 R]

All new weapons save the Silver Bullet get exactly 200 damage per ton of ammo. I still think this is a terrible number to standardize on and it would be far better if TT level ammo loadouts were useable rather than needing secen goddamn tons of munitions for some guns, but eh. Ship has long since sailed.

[Ignatius Audene]

1453 R, on 17 March 2024 - 07:57 PM, said:

All new weapons save the Silver Bullet get exactly 200 damage per ton of ammo. I still think this is a terrible number to standardize on and it would be far better if TT level ammo loadouts were useable rather than needing secen goddamn tons of munitions for some guns, but eh. Ship has long since sailed.

TT number could never work because of higher armor and structure values no rolling to hit...
BT TT rules are no gold standard, but an extremely outdated rules set meant for an totally different use case (ballistics in TT are so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad)

[1453 R]

Ignatius Audene, on 18 March 2024 - 02:16 AM, said:

TT number could never work because of higher armor and structure values no rolling to hit...
BT TT rules are no gold standard, but an extremely outdated rules set meant for an totally different use case (ballistics in TT are so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad)

Not what I meant.

If an AC/10 with two tons of ammo is sufficient for an ordinary TT encounter? It should be sufficient for an ordinary MWO match. You shouldn't need to spend the godawful weight premium on the autocannon, and then spend the autocannon's weight in ammo a second time just to feed the damn thing for one encounter. It makes munitions weapons prohibitively punitive for lighter 'Mechs and is the reason we have to deal with absurd Ghost Ammo quirks.

Double the armor and structure numbers in MWO? Double the shots per ton of munitions-based weapons. Ghost ammo quirks should be an absolute last resort, not something that half the 'Mechs in the game under fifty tons need just to be functional.

Edited by 1453 R, 18 March 2024 - 04:41 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

1453 R, on 18 March 2024 - 04:40 AM, said:

Double the armor and structure numbers in MWO? Double the shots per ton of munitions-based weapons. Ghost ammo quirks should be an absolute last resort, not something that half the 'Mechs in the game under fifty tons need just to be functional.

You got me confused here. I thought that is exactly what happened, at least with the recent update and normalization that happened.

[An6ryMan69]

1453 R, on 18 March 2024 - 04:40 AM, said:

Not what I meant.

If an AC/10 with two tons of ammo is sufficient for an ordinary TT encounter? It should be sufficient for an ordinary MWO match. You shouldn't need to spend the godawful weight premium on the autocannon, and then spend the autocannon's weight in ammo a second time just to feed the damn thing for one encounter. It makes munitions weapons prohibitively punitive for lighter 'Mechs and is the reason we have to deal with absurd Ghost Ammo quirks.

Double the armor and structure numbers in MWO? Double the shots per ton of munitions-based weapons. Ghost ammo quirks should be an absolute last resort, not something that half the 'Mechs in the game under fifty tons need just to be functional.

MWO is bad for needing so much ammo.

Ballistics is bad, but missiles are even worse, especially with so much working against them.

Play MW5 where three tons of LRM ammo is plenty for a heavy LRM boat to run a mission and get multiple kills, and then jump back to MWO where ten tons is marginal in the same mech, to see what I mean.

[ScrapIron Prime]

An6ryMan69, on 18 March 2024 - 07:34 AM, said:

Play MW5 where three tons of LRM ammo is plenty for a heavy LRM boat to run a mission and get multiple kills, and then jump back to MWO where ten tons is marginal in the same mech, to see what I mean.

MW5 is accurate to Battletech lore that way. 1 ton of ammo is plenty for a single engagement with a small or medium caliber (or tube) weapon, and 2 tons per weapon is enough for big guns/launchers.

[Meep Meep]

This is quite fun and effective. But needs an ammo quirk to get potential damage up to 1000~1200. Right now with ammo nodes its right at 800.

fle-19

[torsie]

That ammo is problem definitely needs more for quirks.

If I keep my missiles and laser I can put only 1 box and that is not enough. So I am staying with machine guns.

I was really looking forward to small guns for light mechs.

Skill give only 16 ammo, it should be at least 50 or even 100.

Edited by torsie, 20 March 2024 - 07:40 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Ammo quirks have not been adjusted yet, will be in April Patch

[kalashnikity]

Flea-19 desperately needs an ammo buff for magshot. right now I can fit a SNPPC and 6 magshot, but only one ton of ammo. (slow and weak on armor, but it works)

My normal build uses an MRM10, with one ton of ammo (theoretical 400 damage), magshot only allows 100 ammo (theoretical 200 damage, max)

After much experimentation last night, I've discovered SNPPC pairs extremely well with Magshot. the coolsdowns match up perfectly on the Flea-19, (1.7 and 2.4 = one to two ratio) coincidence? I think NOT!