27 replies to this topic

[Gruyter]

Hi, Everyone.

I'm pretty new at this game. (OK, technically, I created my profile about a decade ago, but it's only recently that I've had a computer that can actually play this game, so, really, I'm a noob.)
I have a question about matchmaking, in Quick Play.

The first 'Mech I bought was, obviously, the MAD-3R, because it's been my favorite for about 35 years. Not too long after that, I bought my second 'Mech: a Timberwolf-Prime, which is probably the best 'Mech ever designed (on paper).

Very recently, I've picked up a Grand Dragon. I didn't buy it, I was given it for free as part of a free 'Mech event, which I appreciate. I'm sure a lot of people were given free Grand Dragons as part of that event.

So, here's my point: if I drop into a Quick Play match in my Grand Dragon, as opposed to my TBR, does my team get any advantage? I mean, both are heavy 'Mechs, but the DRG is really a "light heavy," with IS weapons and only 60 tonnes in weight. By contrast, the TBR is a Clan 'Mech, and a "heavy heavy" at 75 tonnes. I feel like I, personally, do much better with the TBR, and I'm trying to figure out if my Quick Play team gets any advantage when I drop with my DRG rather than my TBR? Because, honestly, right now I'm struggling to understand why I would ever choose the DRG over the TBR--it's just (on paper) a clearly inferior 'Mech. I'm really looking for a reason why ANYONE would use it when the TBR is available.

Both 'Mechs are in the heavy category., One is obviously better than the other. If I drop with my DRG does my team get more weight in total they can use for other heavies or assaults? Or, does the matchmaker consider all heavies to be equivalent (even though, obviously, they are not)? So, to put this bluntly, is there any reason to keep the Grand Dragon, or should I just sell it and use the C-Bills to buy something better.

Thanks,
Gruyter.

[martian]

Gruyter, on 16 March 2024 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hi, Everyone.

Welcome to the forums!

Gruyter, on 16 March 2024 - 10:54 PM, said:

I have a question about matchmaking, in Quick Play.
...
So, here's my point: if I drop into a Quick Play match in my Grand Dragon, as opposed to my TBR, does my team get any advantage?
....
I'm trying to figure out if my Quick Play team gets any advantage when I drop with my DRG rather than my TBR?
....
If I drop with my DRG does my team get more weight in total they can use for other heavies or assaults?

No.

Gruyter, on 16 March 2024 - 10:54 PM, said:

I mean, both are heavy 'Mechs, but the DRG is really a "light heavy," with IS weapons and only 60 tonnes in weight. By contrast, the TBR is a Clan 'Mech, and a "heavy heavy" at 75 tonnes. I feel like I, personally, do much better with the TBR, and Because, honestly, right now I'm struggling to understand why I would ever choose the DRG over the TBR--it's just (on paper) a clearly inferior 'Mech. I'm really looking for a reason why ANYONE would use it when the TBR is available.

Both 'Mechs are in the heavy category., One is obviously better than the other. Or, does the matchmaker consider all heavies to be equivalent (even though, obviously, they are not)? So, to put this bluntly, is there any reason to keep the Grand Dragon, or should I just sell it and use the C-Bills to buy something better.

Thanks,
Gruyter.

MechWarrior Online is not the same thing as the tabletop BattleTech.

There is no Battle Value in MWO. Thus, you can not save points on some 'Mech and use them to boost something else.

Thus, there is no point in dropping in a lighter / weaker 'Mech, unless:

• you are very good with that weaker 'Mech to compensate for its weaker firepower and thinner armor or
  
• that lighter 'Mech is massively quirked so that it performs as well as a much heavier 'Mech or
  
• you harbor some sentimental feeling towards the lighter 'Mech

But if you wish to hear a honest answer: Dropping deliberately in a weaker 'Mech usually means that you are simply harming yourself and your team. Neither you nor your team gets any weight advantage, C-Bills bonus or anything else. Maybe there is (or was) some condition about balancing the tonnage of both teams hidden deep inside the matchmaker, but the matchmaker is so dysfunctional that it hardly matters these days.

Edited by martian, 17 March 2024 - 03:54 AM.

[TravelingMaster]

martian, on 16 March 2024 - 11:48 PM, said:

Welcome to the forums!


No.


MechWarrior Online is not the same thing as the tabletop BattleTech.

There is no Battle Value in MWO. Thus, you can not save points on some 'Mech and use them to boost something else.

Thus, there is no point in dropping in a lighter / weaker 'Mech, unless:

• you are very good with that weaker 'Mech to compensate for its weaker firepower and thinner armor or
  
• that lighter 'Mech is massively quirked so that it performs as well as a much heavier 'Mech or
  
• you harbor some sentimental feeling towards the lighter 'Mech

But if you wish to hear a honest answer: Dropping deliberately in a weaker 'Mech usually means that you are simply harming yourself and your team. Neither you nor your team gets any weight advantage, C-Bills bonus or anything else. Maybe there is (or was) some condition about balancing the tonnage of both teams hidden deep inside the matchmaker, but the matchmaker is so dysfunctional that it hardly matters these days.

Are you trying to turn this guy into another easily-killed assault pilot? OP, ignore his comments regarding the value of lighter, faster mechs, the mobility advantage is huge with some basic skill at the game. You don't have to be 'very good' to contribute using lighter mechs, I've regularly done more damage than the heavies and assaults on my quickplay teams using the 40-ton Viper and 25-ton Mist Lynx and I'm not top tier or anything.

Edited by TravelingMaster, 17 March 2024 - 06:57 AM.

[martian]

TravelingMaster, on 17 March 2024 - 06:53 AM, said:

Are you trying to turn this guy into another easily-killed assault pilot?

You are the first person in the entire thread mentioning assault 'Mechs.

[Alexander of Macedon]

As noted, there is no Battle Value equivalent in MWO.

Do note, however, that a lot of 'mechs are heavily quirked, and due to the game's nature as an FPS with no dice rolling and perfect convergence the value of mobility is much higher. Light and medium 'mechs can punch well above their weight in MWO, so the most important consideration is whether you're in a 'mech you personally like and do well with.

[TravelingMaster]

martian, on 17 March 2024 - 07:05 AM, said:

You are the first person in the entire thread mentioning assault 'Mechs.

"Thus, there is no point in dropping in a lighter/weaker mech" followed by "unless you are very good". I.E. drop in the heaviest mechs you have (assault mechs), which is exactly the logic that leads to 40-50% of the queues filled with assaults, many piloted by people not very good at piloting assaults and end up doing 200 damage and dying.

People can connect the dots, it's something you learn as a child. Stop insulting people's intelligence.

Edited by TravelingMaster, 17 March 2024 - 07:34 AM.

[Adam Sandler]

YOU ARE RIGHT THERE IS NO REASON TO PILOT THE INFERIOR INNER SPHERE MECHS, IT'S 3054 YOU NEED TO BE CLAN MAXING, YOU NEED TO BE DECLARING BATCHALL REGARDLESS OF CONTEXT

Edited by Adam Sandler, 17 March 2024 - 08:00 AM.

[XDarkPrinceX]

Might makes right Clan will never let you down, but really just ignore what MM says about mechs queueing and just drop in what you want to play as it makes no difference in how the team will be formed.

[ScrapIron Prime]

There is no best answer except… Play the mech you feel like playing.

[martian]

TravelingMaster, on 17 March 2024 - 07:33 AM, said:

"Thus, there is no point in dropping in a lighter/weaker mech" followed by "unless you are very good". I.E. drop in the heaviest mechs you have (assault mechs), which is exactly the logic that leads to 40-50% of the queues filled with assaults, many piloted by people not very good at piloting assaults and end up doing 200 damage and dying.

People can connect the dots, it's something you learn as a child. Stop insulting people's intelligence.

The OP asked specifically about the difference between deploying in the Grand Dragon and in the Timber Wolf. I am linking his post for your convenience here, so you can re-read it.

After that, I posted my reply in which I quoted the OP's post and I described what I think about deploying in the Grand Dragon and in the Timber Wolf. I did not mention assault 'Mechs. I am linking my post for your convenience here, so you can re-read it too.

So far, you are the only person in this thread who is stubbornly diverting the discussion towards assault 'Mechs. Note that none of the OP's 'Mechs is an assault 'Mech:

• MAD-3R Marauder - 75 tons; heavy
  
• DRG-1G Grand Dragon - 60 tons; heavy
  
• TBR-PRIME Timber Wolf - 75 tons; heavy

Essentially, you have created a strawman ("Are you trying to turn this guy into another easily-killed assault pilot?") and now you are fighting it. Only that your fight is futile, because I have never told the OP to pilot assault 'Mechs to begin with.

Edited by martian, 17 March 2024 - 08:55 AM.

[Gasboy]

Gruyter, on 16 March 2024 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hi, Everyone.

Welcome to the jungle. Glad you can play now with a decent computer.

The only thing your team gets from you is what you can contribute. If, for whatever reason, you're an absolute monster in your Marauder, but pathetic in your Dragon, obviously your team is likely to have more of an advantage when you're in the mech you do best in. This imbalance can only be 'fixed' through practice.

[Ihlrath]

Match maker takes 12 people and puts them against 12 other people and that's about all we can hope for at this point.

Have fun! Welcome back!

[Tarl Cabot]

The MM utilizes a player's tier and weight balancing. Tiers uses PSR points (1000 pts/tier), which are generated per match. You are rated against the other 23 players. And MS a lot of that score from damage. Damage converts approx 46% of its points into Matchscore, thus 100dmg = 46 MS

https://mwomercs.com...ity-version-10/

https://mwomercs.com...overies-week-1/

https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

[pbiggz]

martian, on 16 March 2024 - 11:48 PM, said:

Thus, there is no point in dropping in a lighter / weaker 'Mech

Lighter mechs arent weaker. A badly piloted assault mech is as bad as a badly piloted light.

OP should consider mediums and heavies as they are the most welcoming for new players. Lights are a challenge to learn, and so are assaults, though many simply havent realized that.

[TravelingMaster]

pbiggz, on 17 March 2024 - 10:31 AM, said:

Lighter mechs arent weaker. A badly piloted assault mech is as bad as a badly piloted light.

OP should consider mediums and heavies as they are the most welcoming for new players. Lights are a challenge to learn, and so are assaults, though many simply havent realized that.

Haven't you heard? He's supposedly not talking about assault mechs in any way, shape, or form, and how dare you imply he was saying more tonnage/armor=better, shh, shhh!

Edited by TravelingMaster, 17 March 2024 - 10:58 AM.

[Ihlrath]

Light mechs are weak?

As an Urbie pilot I am insulted sir! Insulted I say! Be-smirch the trash can at thy own peril!

[Gruyter]

There's clearly some kind of power balancing that takes place with regards to 'Mech class. I can see in the Quick Play dropdown which 'Mechs are most in demand at the moment. My question was whether there's any strategic advantage to taking a lighter 'Mech within a particular weight class, and it seems like the answer is a resounding "NO!" Given that, I think I'll probably just sell the Dragon, keep the Marauder for nostalgia's sake, and mostly drive my Timberwolf, since it seems to be getting the most kills per game.

[Gruyter]

pbiggz, on 17 March 2024 - 10:31 AM, said:

OP should consider mediums and heavies as they are the most welcoming for new players. Lights are a challenge to learn, and so are assaults, though many simply havent realized that.

That seemed intuitively the case, and I'm glad to hear that others agree with me. Mediums and Heavies seem to be the most accessible 'Mechs for new players. Lights require a level of player skill that I just don't have! Assaults seem more forgiving for new pilots, but Assaults are expected to carry so much weight in the match, and a new player is going to have trouble doing the kind of damage they need to do to justify so much drop weight.

The only 'Mechs I play seriously are Mediums and Heavies. I do have a Jenner IIC, which I got for free, but I don't drive it much, since I tend to get killed pretty fast when I do.

[martian]

pbiggz, on 17 March 2024 - 10:31 AM, said:

Lighter mechs arent weaker. A badly piloted assault mech is as bad as a badly piloted light.

OP should consider mediums and heavies as they are the most welcoming for new players. Lights are a challenge to learn, and so are assaults, though many simply havent realized that.

Your attempt to pick out one incomplete part of my post, while deliberately ignoring the context, i.e. the rest of the post, is comical. In no part of my post I mentioned either light 'Mechs or assault 'Mechs. I am linking my post for your convenience here, so you can re-read it again.

Being "dishonest". This is the word that you use often. So try your dishonest discussion tactics on someone else.

[TravelingMaster]

Gruyter, on 17 March 2024 - 04:03 PM, said:

Assaults are expected to carry so much weight in the match, and a new player is going to have trouble doing the kind of damage they need to do to justify so much drop weight.

The only 'Mechs I play seriously are Mediums and Heavies. I do have a Jenner IIC, which I got for free, but I don't drive it much, since I tend to get killed pretty fast when I do.

That's part of the difficulty with assaults, I suppose, but another part is their slow speed means they can't make mistakes regarding where they go on the map, because it generally takes them too long to reposition. It's easier to get isolated and cut to pieces in an assault, and you always have to worry about small light mechs trying to backstab you or chew your legs off.

Next couple of matches you play that result in a one-sided loss, take a look at the damage/kills of the assaults on your team. Odds are, they likely died quickly doing comparatively little damage, because they either got caught out of position/cover or were focused on and taken out in short order without much help from the team. Assaults are powerful, but they're far from invincible.

Timberwolf is a solid, flexible choice, and this link https://grimmechs.is...&c=heavy&f=Clan gives you a solid selection of good builds for most mechs you have access to, including the Timberwolf, if you want ideas for tinkering with your Timberwolf. If you're interested in other Clan heavies, I would personally suggest the Hellbringer, which is good for energy-focused builds.

Lastly, I would advise not selling the Dragon-1G (I assume that's the free one you've got) if you haven't already by the time you read this. C-bills will come eventually, both through playing the game but also through special events that happen very regularly throughout the year and reward cbills, mechbays, mechwarrior credits, and other goodies. It's up to you, but you don't really get that many c-bills from the sale, and that Dragon is pretty good at a couple of builds as you'll see on that site I linked if you want to drive something other than the Marauder or Timberwolf.