55 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 04 April 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

I have trouble believing that is remotely a problem considering a game from 2000 did not have this problem and projectiles all had 2000ms or more velocity but who knows given how troubled the cryengine is in general.

there are indeed a lot of question marks on this "problem" as its very implementation specific. but as somone who sometimes works on newtonian space sims, i have to deal with these kinds of limits all the time. especially where physics code meets netcode. where you often need a smaller number format that better fits into a udp packet. you cant always use the biggest format available and sometimes have to make do with less. idk what cryengine does, but considering the engine has aged like milk, its probably something not good. but do monitor rates of complaints about ppcs not hitting things, and see if its worse than previous (though a significant fraction of those are strictly skill issue, that should be more or less consistent). whatever the upper stable limit is, you will find it if you keep pushing the limits.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 April 2024 - 03:20 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 04 April 2024 - 01:40 PM, said:

there are indeed a lot of question marks on this "problem". but as somone who sometimes works on newtonian space sims, i have to deal with these kinds of limits all the time. especially where physics code meets netcode. where you often need a smaller number format that better fits into a udp packet. you cant always use the biggest format available and sometimes have to make do with less. idk what cryengine does, but considering the engine has aged like milk, its probably something not good. but do monitor rates of complaints about ppcs not hitting things, and see if its worse than previous (though a significant fraction of those are strictly skill issue, that should be more or less consistent). whatever the upper stable limit is, you will find it if you keep pushing the limits.

I mean the client doesn't need to be 100% accurate since it isn't authoritative. Ideally yes client sides match up as much as possible but :shrug: there is a limit with what you can do given the time sensitive nature of those packets anyway. With HSR though it's still a lot better than the MW4 days where people complained about NDB (no-damage bug) because they hit the mech on their screen but did no damage and don't understand that what the server sees is what matters and they have to account for that latency.

[LordNothing]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 04 April 2024 - 01:57 PM, said:

I mean the client doesn't need to be 100% accurate since it isn't authoritative. Ideally yes client sides match up as much as possible but :shrug: there is a limit with what you can do given the time sensitive nature of those packets anyway. With HSR though it's still a lot better than the MW4 days where people complained about NDB (no-damage bug) because they hit the mech on their screen but did no damage and don't understand that what the server sees is what matters and they have to account for that latency.

the fact that netcode works at all is a bloody miracle. that's on any engine.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 04 April 2024 - 03:22 PM, said:

the fact that netcode works at all is a bloody miracle. that's on any engine.

The fact networking works at all bewilders me.

[Hawk819]

I'm glad they reduce the Heat on the Plasma Cannon. Might make the weapon a little more fun to use with Lore Based Mechs that have more than one PC.

[An6ryMan69]

Everything I see in the patch leaks looks good!

Agree with comments about passive play (OMG, so common...), or selfish play (blatantly hiding and contributing nothing until half both teams are dead and then trying to farm easy kills, suiciding, etc.) being a real problem, but not really patchable.

[Meep Meep]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 04 April 2024 - 04:50 PM, said:

The fact networking works at all bewilders me.

Well when your brain can do billions of calculations per second you might understand.

Changes look good so far especially the ammo bonus. Seems a bit light on some mechs like the locust 1m and flea19 though but I guess thats due to them being particularly good pests with the new weapons.

[Hawk819]

Meep Meep, on 05 April 2024 - 01:52 PM, said:

Well when your brain can do billions of calculations per second you might understand.

Changes look good so far especially the ammo bonus. Seems a bit light on some mechs like the locust 1m and flea19 though but I guess thats due to them being particularly good pests with the new weapons.

I had my fingers crossed for Damage increase on the PACs. IMHO, they seem underwhelming when it comes to damage output. However, I'll take the range and ammo increase. Especially, on the Gargoyle side of things. The Prime is a good candidate for the Gargoyle T. Should be a sweet change.

[kalashnikity]

I've never seen such dramatic changes in weapon stats. The lock on changes were much needed.

[kalashnikity]

Proto and light auto cannons both really did need their cool downs reduced to make them worth while.

Good job!

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Why only the Pir-B with the AP Gauss quirk instead of the whole family?

[Weeny Machine]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 06 April 2024 - 03:26 AM, said:

Why only the Pir-B with the AP Gauss quirk instead of the whole family?

And why did the Huginn get just ammo quirks for MAGs? It will help not really much

Edited by Weeny Machine, 06 April 2024 - 07:30 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Weeny Machine, on 06 April 2024 - 07:29 AM, said:

And why did the Huginn get just ammo quirks for MAGs? It will help not really much

I guess for the same reasons that the LCT-1 didn't get its Engery Cooldown 50% quirk turned into a Cooldown 50% quirk (like the LCT-3V has) that would have allowed to really benefit from the newly available weapon choices.

[Weeny Machine]

Der Geisterbaer, on 06 April 2024 - 07:38 AM, said:

I guess for the same reasons that the LCT-1 didn't get its Engery Cooldown 50% quirk turned into a Cooldown 50% quirk (like the LCT-3V has) that would have allowed to really benefit from the newly available weapon choices.

Jup, but the Huginn really needs help. When was the last time you saw one?

[Der Geisterbaer]

In February ... but I only tend so see LCT-1V and 3V when I'm driving them myself.

[MechMaster059]

ECM
- EXCELLENT and long overdue change. x4 was wayyyy too draconian and effectively granted near immunity to missile lock.

PPC
- Another very good change. If the Cauldron really wants to help out standard PPCs and Heavy PPCs they're going to have to remove or dramatically reduce the close range damage drop off. One thing I learned playing my CGR-N7 is that:

Binary Laser Cannon >> Heavy PPC

It's not even close. Heavy PPCs are marginally better for pop-tarting but other than that they're totally inferior to BLCs. BLCs make Heavy PPCs obsolete. The damage / heat ratio of an ERPPC is 0.8333. A good rule of thumb would be for the damage / heat of PPC and Heavy PPC to always be equal or better than this. This means the damage drop-off of Heavy PPCs going down to 11 dmg (13 heat x 0.8333) instead of 5.5 and PPCs going down to 6.66. (8 heat x 0.8333) Or just remove the damage drop-off altogether. In a world with BLCs, there's not much reason to have a damage drop-off penalty on any PPC variants anymore.

ERPPC
- I suppose this buff was necessary to help differentiate it from Clan ER-PPCs which are far superior.

Clan Heavy Small Laser
- This weapon kind of sucked so these buffs make sense.
(Please lower the heat on IS ER-Small Lasers from 1.9 --> 1.7 but raise IS Standard Small Laser heat from 1.1 --> 1.3. IS Standard Small Lasers are WAYYYY too heat efficient)

Clan Beam Laser
- EXCELLENT changes especially the last change: "cool off ramp-down delay lowered to 1.0s". This change is absolutely critical to the weapon. A 5.0s ramp-down delay was wrecking the weapon and I was worried that it might not be technically possible to lower it due to the code base being so old. This change alone makes the weapon viable again.

Increasing the green time (yellow time?) to 10s is also a very important improvement. Increasing the DPS did not occur to me but makes sense for a relatively heavy laser with a significant face-time requirement. I'm stunned by how perfect these changes are!? There may yet be hope for the Cauldron after all.

Clan Plasma PPC
- I don't congratulate people for doing the obvious. Lowering the absurdly high heat on the weapon was a no-brainer. You forgot to increase the heat damage. Guys.... this weapon isn't within a hundred miles of being able to "stun-lock" enemy mechs due to heat build up. Put some fricken heat damage on it... increase it from 0.25 up to 1.5 at least. That would still likely be underpowered but at least it would be noticeable. You follow up the awesome Beam Laser changes with this... so timid.

Magshot
AP Gauss
- Good changes

LACs/PACs
- These cooldown reductions are probably good but I'm a little concerned these weapons are putting standard ACs in danger of being made obsolete. The weight savings these weapons provide is a big deal.

Thunderbolts
- EXCELLET changes, literally read my mind with the 300m/s velocity. Reducing spread is nice and appropriate as well. Now raise the base velocity of LRMs back up to 200m/s. Thanks.

Some really great stuff in this upcoming patch. Impressive.

Edited by MechMaster059, 06 April 2024 - 11:01 AM.

[kalashnikity]

Weeny Machine, on 06 April 2024 - 07:29 AM, said:

And why did the Huginn get just ammo quirks for MAGs? It will help not really much

Did it not already have ammo buffs for literally everything?

[kalashnikity]

MechMaster059, on 06 April 2024 - 10:48 AM, said:

ECM
- EXCELLENT and long overdue change. x4 was wayyyy too draconian and effectively granted near immunity to missile lock.

PPC
- Another very good change. If the Cauldron really wants to help out standard PPCs and Heavy PPCs they're going to have to remove or dramatically reduce the close range damage drop off. One thing I learned playing my CGR-N7 is that:

Binary Laser Cannon >> Heavy PPC

It's not even close. Heavy PPCs are marginally better for pop-tarting but other than that they're totally inferior to BLCs. BLCs make Heavy PPCs obsolete. The damage / heat ratio of an ERPPC is 0.8333. A good rule of thumb would be for the damage / heat of PPC and Heavy PPC to always be equal or better than this. This means the damage drop-off of Heavy PPCs going down to 11 dmg (13 heat x 0.8333) instead of 5.5 and PPCs going down to 6.66. (8 heat x 0.8333) Or just remove the damage drop-off altogether. In a world with BLCs, there's not much reason to have a damage drop-off penalty on any PPC variants anymore.

ERPPC
- I suppose this buff was necessary to help differentiate it from Clan ER-PPCs which are far superior.

Clan Heavy Small Laser
- This weapon kind of sucked so these buffs make sense.
(Please lower the heat on IS ER-Small Lasers from 1.9 --> 1.7 but raise IS Standard Small Laser heat from 1.1 --> 1.3. IS Standard Small Lasers are WAYYYY too heat efficient)

Clan Beam Laser
- EXCELLENT changes especially the last change: "cool off ramp-down delay lowered to 1.0s". This change is absolutely critical to the weapon. A 5.0s ramp-down delay was wrecking the weapon and I was worried that it might not be technically possible to lower it due to the code base being so old. This change alone makes the weapon viable again.

Increasing the green time (yellow time?) to 10s is also a very important improvement. Increasing the DPS did not occur to me but makes sense for a relatively heavy laser with a significant face-time requirement. I'm stunned by how perfect these changes are!? There may yet be hope for the Cauldron after all.

Clan Plasma PPC
- I don't congratulate people for doing the obvious. Lowering the absurdly high heat on the weapon was a no-brainer. You forgot to increase the heat damage. Guys.... this weapon isn't within a hundred miles of being able to "stun-lock" enemy mechs due to heat build up. Put some fricken heat damage on it... increase it from 0.25 up to 1.5 at least. That would still likely be underpowered but at least it would be noticeable. You follow up the awesome Beam Laser changes with this... so timid.

Magshot
AP Gauss
- Good changes

LACs/PACs
- These cooldown reductions are probably good but I'm a little concerned these weapons are putting standard ACs in danger of being made obsolete. The weight savings these weapons provide is a big deal.

Thunderbolts
- EXCELLET changes, literally read my mind with the 300m/s velocity. Reducing spread is nice and appropriate as well. Now raise the base velocity of LRMs back up to 200m/s. Thanks.

Some really great stuff in this upcoming patch. Impressive.

I think the changes are probably about perfect so far. Good point about plasma not doing enough heat damage. And HPPC are one of the most under performing weapon in the game, they at least need to do some splash damage, something like 1.5dmg for each adjacent component..

frankly all PPCs should do at least a little splash dmg.

[Weeny Machine]

kalashnikity, on 06 April 2024 - 05:59 PM, said:

Did it not already have ammo buffs for literally everything?

The problem is not really ammo, but the low number of hardpoints. In early times it had a 40% (or even more, I am not sure anymore) SRM4 quirk to compensate that. Instead the Cauldron gave it mediocre SMR quirks, mediocre MG quirks and uuuuh jump jet quirks (it can carry only 2 though). Guess why Huginns are rarely to be seen (and it is a hero mech haha)!

Edited by Weeny Machine, 07 April 2024 - 05:05 AM.

[foamyesque]

I do appreciate the contrast of LRMs eating a velocity nerf a couple of patches back (the 2nd in a row), but now the decision was that Sphere ERPPCs which already went at about the speed of gauss slugs needed to somehow go even faster. :v

I mean I get that Sphere ERPPCs aren't the strongest weapon system or anything and it's a way to further distinguish the Sphere PPC family, which seems to be part of the goal given other changes, but, c'mon.




The lockon change is appreciated, though. On top of which, I do hope we get a NARC change in the near future: NARC gameplay is toxic and not particularly enjoyable either for the NARCer or their targets; making NARCs have shorter durations would push interaction and avoid the 'well I'm gonna be sitting behind this rock for the next minute' situation.