74 replies to this topic

[Lincoln Cross]

Samziel, on 17 April 2024 - 02:53 AM, said:

I'm likely just bad at positioning but every time I play assault sniper the enemy team decides to make killing me their main objective, even if they lose doing that.

You definitely share attention. You also share a major part of the return fire. Especially when your team decides to take a scenic route and you realize you're the only thing they see!

Whenever there are snipers or LURMs in the back, I make it my mission to go harrass/kill them. Leaving them unchecked to freecast at will is a death sentence.

[torsie]

Sharing armour is cool, but then sometimes big enemy mech gets close to us, so I walk in front of it, so it is shooting on me first and my whole team just runs away.

Sharing armour just means go explode first.

Edited by torsie, 17 April 2024 - 06:19 AM.

[Chrysomelidae]

Samziel, on 17 April 2024 - 02:53 AM, said:

I'm likely just bad at positioning but every time I play assault sniper the enemy team decides to make killing me their main objective, even if they lose doing that.

You definitely share attention. You also share a major part of the return fire. Especially when your team decides to take a scenic route and you realize you're the only thing they see!

At one point I forced myself to play only assaults to learn them, one of which was a sniper build. Let me tell you, it was an eye opener. Minute decisions about when to expose, where to stand, how much to expose, how much armor I could invest etc. I was forced to learn the hard way. It's not easy but when it works it's free real estate for sure

Edited by Chrysomelidae, 17 April 2024 - 08:42 AM.

[Wraith 1]

How about instead of directly rewarding taking damage, we reward high-risk playstyles with higher damage or better heat efficiency, so they'll just get a better damage score than a sniper that engages the enemy for a similar amount of time? Sure, the sniper might be able to live longer, but being hard to attack is part of what makes snipers a powerful force multiplier, and the front-line guy probably isn't very useful if he dies TOO fast

It's so simple, somebody should've thought of this 40 years ago or something...

[MarcinT1981]

Wraith 1, on 17 April 2024 - 02:36 PM, said:

How about instead of directly rewarding taking damage, we reward high-risk playstyles with higher damage or better heat efficiency, so they'll just get a better damage score than a sniper that engages the enemy for a similar amount of time?

It's so simple, somebody should've thought of this 40 years ago or something...

Well, that's how it is. Brawler can deal a lot of damage in a short time and gets a damage score for it.

[Curccu]

Wraith 1, on 17 April 2024 - 02:36 PM, said:

How about instead of directly rewarding taking damage, we reward high-risk playstyles with higher damage or better heat efficiency, so they'll just get a better damage score than a sniper that engages the enemy for a similar amount of time? Sure, the sniper might be able to live longer, but being hard to attack is part of what makes snipers a powerful force multiplier, and the front-line guy probably isn't very useful if he dies TOO fast

It's so simple, somebody should've thought of this 40 years ago or something...

20-25 ton lights would love this.

[Captain Caveman DE]

while I'm no fan of the described playstyle, it IS the correct way to play it in QP, sorry.

"sharing armor" is a concept that works in faction, playing siege. you "rotate armor" to the front while pressing on with 12men.
it is silly to expect 12 yolo-solos in QP to pull that off, so the first step would be to just -not-

quite frankly: most-to-all of your team is running around in circles anyway, doing no damage, doing no kills, asking for locks, or sitting in some corner waiting for it all to be over;

an active player who wants to win, in this bad situation, might as well take advantage of this.
there's no point in getting a good mech with an able pilot torn up just to buy a bit more time for some nascar-racers.

[torsie]

I think there should be similar "protected assault" reward like light and medium mechs have.

I think it is little silly when light mechs get reward for standing around larger mechs, it is dangerous for them, they should be rewarded for staying together in groups of tiny ankle biters.

On the other hand big mechs with lot of guns staying together with their team is lot more helpful and maybe if it give score people would stay together more.

Taking damage when there are smaller mechs around you can also work, but I do not know if it is easy to be add to game.
And shooting on same target as your team should also give more score, so people learn to attack same target.

There is no way to put 58 large lasers and 28 gauss guns on light mech, so even if people are getting angry, assault is still best weapon platform and there is little reason to stand in middle of war when all your guns are 2000 meters range.

And even 100 tons assault will disappear in few seconds if you are not in cover, we need more armour on everything.

[MrMadguy]

Unfortunately it's only way to play Assault 'Mechs in this game, because game mechanics work such way, that Light can run in front of 12 'Mechs and survive, while Assault would be squashed in split second, when it would show any part of it's armor out of cover.

[An6ryMan69]

Part of the problem with selfish play is the stats that MWO keeps, I think. If there was no Jarl's list, no win/loss ratio, kill ratios or whatever, you wouldn't see guys engaging in the most blatantly selfish play like suiciding.

I was just in a match yesterday in Viridian Bog where well into the match I came across THREE Ace of Spades titled players in heavy mechs all hiding behind the same island, completely away from the fight and all still at 100% health, and contributing nothing.

This kind of thing really is bad for the game and really does turn off other players, which is unfortunate.

As well, assault players are SCARED right now. Lights have always been brutal in this game, when properly piloted. Right now, with the new weapons, lights are the new assaults - there's almost no fight they can't pick and win. They are in a place of power where "outgun or outrun" is completely up to them to use at will, and other weight classes (except maybe the fastest mediums) are just not keeping pace in terms of gameplay impact in QP.

I can't speak for Tier 1 and Tier 2 matches, but in Tier 3-5, big and slow mechs are getting their asses handed to them every which way out there, and are playing crazy timid as a result. People still play them, and they pay for them buying Legendaries and such - but its mostly out of Battletech nostalgia, it's not because they won't get totaled by the next cheap, C-Bill purchased, 20 tonner they come across - because they will.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 18 April 2024 - 07:48 AM.

[martian]

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

Part of the problem with selfish play is the stats that MWO keeps, I think. If there was no Jarl's list, no win/loss ratio, kill ratios or whatever, you wouldn't see guys engaging in the most blatantly selfish play like suiciding.

No. Selfish and/or timid behaviour had existed long before the Jarl's list was created.

By the way, what do you call "suiciding"?

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

I was just in a match yesterday in Viridian Bog where well into the match I came across THREE Ace of Spades titled players in heavy mechs all hiding behind the same island, completely away from the fight and all still at 100% health, and contributing nothing.

From what I have heard, such behaviour exists in other multiplayer games too.

But do not worry. The behaviour, that you just described, would typically result in a serious PSR loss. PSR will move such players in a lower Tier and you will not meet them in your games too often.

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

This kind of thing really is bad for the game and really does turn off other players, which is unfortunate.

Do you track some stats or something?

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

As well, assault players are SCARED right now. Lights have always been brutal in this game, when properly piloted.

LOL No.

Light 'Mechs have the worst Kill / Death ratio, the worst Win / Loss ratio, and the lowest average Match Score of all weight classes.

Try again.

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

Right now, with the new weapons, lights are the new assaults - there's almost no fight they can't pick and win. They are in a place of power where "outgun or outrun" is completely up to them to use at will, and other weight classes (except maybe the fastest mediums) are just not keeping pace in terms of gameplay impact in QP.

Just shoot the damned Light!

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

I can't speak for Tier 1 and Tier 2 matches, but in Tier 3-5, big and slow mechs are getting their asses handed to them every which way out there, and are playing crazy timid as a result.

Many MWO players have always been timid - right since the beginning of MWO, no matter what weight class 'Mech they use.

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

People still play them, and they pay for them buying Legendaries and such - but its mostly out of Battletech nostalgia,

I am sorry to disappoint you, but considering approximately 20 Legendary 'Mechs, only some 2-3 are based on BattleTech canon - and they mostly suck or are irrelevant in BattleTech.

An6ryMan69, on 18 April 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

it's not because they won't get totaled by the next cheap, C-Bill purchased, 20 tonner they come across - because they will.

If you wish to complain that light 'Mechs are OP and should be nerfed, the right thread is here: Light Mechs Are Screwed Up

As assault 'Mech player, you can often kill or cripple them with one shot.

[ScrapIron Prime]

pattonesque, on 16 April 2024 - 06:06 PM, said:

snipers who play correctly take way more fire than you'd think. they're sharing *attention*, not armor, which is the more important metric.

This needs said more, yes. When there's a sniper firing at you, he controls your movement options, he forces you to react. Done right, this prevents part of the enemy team from getting to where the action is.

I got salted at yesterday in a match on Vitric Forge. The shout was to "take the top". I wasn't taking the top, I was a long range dakka build, deployed on top of a building high up on one flank. I scored top damage in the match, putting fire into all those red mechs on "the top" even when the rest of my team couldn't. In effect, doing the same job and making people stop shooting my team. But because we lost, I must have been doing it wrong.

[MarcinT1981]

martian, on 18 April 2024 - 08:39 AM, said:

LOL No.

Light 'Mechs have the worst Kill / Death ratio, the worst Win / Loss ratio, and the lowest average Match Score of all weight classes.

Try again.

You can shove these statistics up your ***.
That's why they are like that, not because lights are weak, but because they are difficult to play and weak players (that is, the majority) cannot use their advantages.
Secondly, many even good players do not like to play, for example, Flea or Piranha, because they do not play MWO to feel like they are playing Team Fortress 2.

Edited by MarcinT1981, 18 April 2024 - 09:18 AM.

[East Indy]

Asylum Choir, on 16 April 2024 - 04:56 PM, said:

That is not what I meant, and you know it. And, such a nasty attitude to boot.

That guy did an inflammatory post on Reddit about starting alt accounts because it can take advantage of lower-skilled players, and then *in his own thread* bragged about taking advantage of lower-skilled players via long-range farming because the broken matchmaker feeds them to him, thus it's okay.

Like you said, bad attitude.

[Sneaky Snek]

East Indy, on 18 April 2024 - 09:08 AM, said:

That guy did an inflammatory post on Reddit about starting alt accounts because it can take advantage of lower-skilled players, and then *in his own thread* bragged about taking advantage of lower-skilled players via long-range farming because the broken matchmaker feeds them to him, thus it's okay.

Like you said, bad attitude.

You mean the thread titled "Event Queue show's why Tier gates Exist?" lmao

[JediPanther]

Welcome to The Meta. All those nerfs to lights and how missiles work (suck more) just reinforces the sniper meta. As much as I hate snipers the one guy who said he wasn't going to leroy jekins in was right about that. Charging an enemy position head on only get you shot and dead.

I find trying to play sniper boring as hell and since lights are a one-shot-kill as well as lrms being nerfed into dead weight with how they work I've given up playing mwo. You want to survive qp then build a mech to orbit your assault snipers and be your own damage mutipiler when some thing gets mid range to your sniper buddy. People tend to focus on the assult and not the lower weight mech next to it.

[martian]

MarcinT1981, on 18 April 2024 - 09:05 AM, said:

You can shove these statistics up your ***.
That's why they are like that, not because lights are weak, but because they are difficult to play and weak players (that is, the majority) cannot use their advantages.

LOL

You can ignore that stats that you dislike, but the facts reflected by those stats are not going to disappear.

MarcinT1981, on 18 April 2024 - 09:05 AM, said:

Secondly, many even good players do not like to play, for example, Flea or Piranha, because they do not play MWO to feel like they are playing Team Fortress 2.

... and many other good players like to play light 'Mechs. Anything else?

[martian]

JediPanther, on 18 April 2024 - 08:49 PM, said:

Welcome to The Meta. All those nerfs to lights and how missiles work (suck more) just reinforces the sniper meta. As much as I hate snipers the one guy who said he wasn't going to leroy jekins in was right about that. Charging an enemy position head on only get you shot and dead.

LRMs are not a threat to the snipers and they have never been. Such sniper steps out of the cover, unloads his alpha lasting 1-1.5 second and steps back behind his cover.

You can forget about getting lock for your LRMs (especially if such sniper is using ECM or Stealth armor). Before your slow LRMs arrive to his location, sniper is safely hidden again and any opportunity for getting LRM lock disappears. Firing slow LRMs without lock means typically just wasting LRM ammo. Sniper in his cover does often not even know that you fired your LRMs on him.

Thus, LRMs have not much to do with the sniper meta.

JediPanther, on 18 April 2024 - 08:49 PM, said:

I find trying to play sniper boring as hell and since lights are a one-shot-kill as well as lrms being nerfed into dead weight with how they work I've given up playing mwo. You want to survive qp then build a mech to orbit your assault snipers and be your own damage mutipiler when some thing gets mid range to your sniper buddy. People tend to focus on the assult and not the lower weight mech next to it.

I disagree. You can survive in the Quick Play and do reasonably well there even without playing "a mech to orbit your assault snipers".

[Bassault]

JediPanther, on 18 April 2024 - 08:49 PM, said:

Welcome to The Meta. All those nerfs to lights and how missiles work (suck more) just reinforces the sniper meta. As much as I hate snipers the one guy who said he wasn't going to leroy jekins in was right about that. Charging an enemy position head on only get you shot and dead. I find trying to play sniper boring as hell and since lights are a one-shot-kill as well as lrms being nerfed into dead weight with how they work I've given up playing mwo. You want to survive qp then build a mech to orbit your assault snipers and be your own damage mutipiler when some thing gets mid range to your sniper buddy. People tend to focus on the assult and not the lower weight mech next to it.

In what world are light mechs nerfed?

[LapisMaddog]

martian, on 18 April 2024 - 09:59 PM, said:

LOL

You can ignore that stats that you dislike, but the facts reflected by those stats are not going to disappear.

... and many other good players like to play light 'Mechs. Anything else?

Lights are strong against assaults I've done 1v1s against players equal and better then me and lights/poptarters win more often then not against assaults, their stats are bad cause if you stand still in a light you die with 30 (like a lot of players) damage if you stand still in a assault you die with at least 200/300 damage cause they have enough armor and damage they can cover up mistakes unlike lights and to perform as well or better then assaults with a light you have to abuse cover, speed, agilty, mounts (masc, jjs) which are almost never used by pugs so 90% of pugs are playing lights very poorly tanking stats

Edited by LapisMaddog, 19 April 2024 - 12:15 AM.