61 replies to this topic

[martian]

Gasboy, on 27 April 2024 - 09:38 AM, said:

Moet people like to know that what they're aiming at is actually being painted. That's why the laser is visible.

Every time you paint enemy 'Mech with your TAG, a small crosshairs symbol appears above the enemy 'Mech.



It works even on those maps where the TAG laser beam is barely visible.

You can try it in the game.

Edited by martian, 27 April 2024 - 09:47 PM.

[Gasboy]

martian, on 27 April 2024 - 08:55 PM, said:

Every time you paint enemy 'Mech with your TAG, a small crosshairs symbol appears above the enemy 'Mech.



It works even on those maps where the TAG laser beam is barely visible.

You can try it in the game.

Having the beam visible also helps to aim it. Tracers in machinegun ammo exist for this very reason. Also, it's a game.

Edited by Gasboy, 02 May 2024 - 07:12 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Wait a minute i thought tag does work on stealth mechs or at least makes them missile lockable... at least to the mech using it Ecm may prevent that tag from being shared.

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 May 2024 - 09:23 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 09:20 AM, said:

Wait a minute i thought tag does work on stealth mechs or at least makes them missile lockable... at least to the mech using it Ecm may prevent that tag from being shared.

It does that. But TAG does not work when under the "low signal" condition.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 02 May 2024 - 01:05 PM, said:

It does that. But TAG does not work when under the "low signal" condition.

Right. If the ECM mech is close enough to you, the TAG is useless. PPC's still work fine though. So switch your streak boats up from TAG to LPPC or Plasma.

[torsie]

Tag is good, but ECM is way too good, if you are close it simply turns off your rockets even if you can mark your target.

Not everyone can afford to carry PPC, single plasma/PPC are LRM15/20 for your mech, now with Artemis being mandatory for every big LRM mechs, it is even more complicated.

And once you make enough space for PPC, you can just continue removing everything else and play PPC/lasers instead.

If you do not have enough space for PPC and TAG does not work for you, I recommend flamer! Cook that tiny stealth locus!

[KursedVixen]

ScrapIron Prime, on 02 May 2024 - 01:31 PM, said:

Right. If the ECM mech is close enough to you, the TAG is useless. PPC's still work fine though. So switch your streak boats up from TAG to LPPC or Plasma.

no tag still works for the person using the tag ,but not anyone else if inside the ecm bubble

ppc only temporarly disables ecm or reset's stealth armor.

tag on the other hand will constantly disable ecm for as long as you hold it on the target even in the ecm bubble but if your in the bubble you won't be sending that 'data' outside to your friends.

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 May 2024 - 07:42 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

torsie, on 02 May 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tag is good, but ECM is way too good, if you are close it simply turns off your rockets even if you can mark your target.

Not everyone can afford to carry PPC, single plasma/PPC are LRM15/20 for your mech, now with Artemis being mandatory for every big LRM mechs, it is even more complicated.

And once you make enough space for PPC, you can just continue removing everything else and play PPC/lasers instead.

If you do not have enough space for PPC and TAG does not work for you, I recommend flamer! Cook that tiny stealth locus!

Light PPC's and Plasma Cannons are only 3 tons. To upgrade a TAG, you just need to design around a 2 ton difference.

Some examples:
https://mwo.nav-alph...=9b4a1ca7_HMN-P
https://mwo.nav-alph...=2d4768ea_ON1-K

But having a small battery of LPPC's or Plasmas in addition to your missiles is good. Shooting someone in the face instantly locks them up and allows you to fire lock-on weapons in a 1-2 punch. Try it with ALRM's, TBolts, or Streaks.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 02 May 2024 - 01:59 PM.

[torsie]

I am not saying it is bad, I recently put PPC on my LRM Blood Asp, because getting lock on every time is more useful than those 5-10 rockets that can not even hit their target.

But that ONI, you can just remove those LRMs, put gauss gun in there, or bigger lasers and you have instantly much better mech.

Edited by torsie, 02 May 2024 - 02:10 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

That ONI-K is on my short list of things to run lurms on. Because if you’re going to run LRMs, you darn well better put them on a mech with a velocity boost of 25 or higher…

[Aidan Crenshaw]

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 01:54 PM, said:

no tag still works for the person using the tag ,but not anyone else if inside the ecm bubble

ppc only temporarly disables ecm or reset's stealth armor.

tag on the other hand will constantly disable ecm for as long as you hold it on the target even in the ecm bubble but if your in the bubble you won't be sending that 'data' outside to your friends.

You are wrong. TAG does not work under the "low signal" condition. Otherwise, the commando in the screenshot below would be targetable, yet it is not.

[MechMaster059]

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 01:54 PM, said:

...

tag on the other hand will constantly disable ecm for as long as you hold it on the target even in the ecm bubble but if your in the bubble you won't be sending that 'data' outside to your friends.

I used to believe this as well Kursed, it's intuitive to think that, but you're wrong. If you're in an enemy ECM bubble, your tag doesn't work AT ALL unless you have a beagle/clan/light probe equipped to counter the enemy ECM. (Or you have an ECM equipped and put it in "counter" mode)

The fact that things works this way is very irritating and counter-intuitive. I heard someone else complain about this in-game one time and here is this thread on the forum.

The thing is, if tags could provide a lock within an ECM bubble then what would probes be good for? This is the ONLY use case I have ever equipped a probe for. (Providing lock inside an ECM bubble)

[KursedVixen]

MechMaster059, on 03 May 2024 - 10:30 PM, said:

I used to believe this as well Kursed, it's intuitive to think that, but you're wrong. If you're in an enemy ECM bubble, your tag doesn't work AT ALL unless you have a beagle/clan/light probe equipped to counter the enemy ECM. (Or you have an ECM equipped and put it in "counter" mode)

The fact that things works this way is very irritating and counter-intuitive. I heard someone else complain about this in-game one time and here is this thread on the forum.

The thing is, if tags could provide a lock within an ECM bubble then what would probes be good for? This is the ONLY use case I have ever equipped a probe for. (Providing lock inside an ECM bubble)

Then tag is useless. it should allow you to to target an enemy in stealth or ecm even in the bubble though it shouldn't allow others to target them if the tag user is in the bubble.

better off dumping two extra tons for plasma or light ppc

Edited by KursedVixen, 03 May 2024 - 11:23 PM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 03 May 2024 - 11:23 PM, said:

Then tag is useless. it should allow you to to target an enemy in stealth or ecm even in the bubble though it shouldn't allow others to target them if the tag user is in the bubble.

better off dumping two extra tons for plasma or light ppc

TAG is not useless, you just have to understand its characteristics.

[MechMaster059]

KursedVixen, on 03 May 2024 - 11:23 PM, said:

Then tag is useless. ...

What's useless is your lock-on missiles against an ECM/Stealth equipped mech at any range without a method to negate/disable the ECM. (I'm aware LRMs/ATMs can dumb fire w/o lock but they become unreliable weapons in that circumstance.) No, just throwing on a LPPC/Plasma Cannon is not always a realistic solution, especially for light/medium mechs. Both of those weapons have heat/weight trade-offs that will force you to shrink your missile loadout if you equip them.

This is why tags are still viable, but I learned something new and awful in this thread as well, that tags don't provide lock acceleration or spread reduction for direct fire.

Tags are underpowered but not useless.

[LordNothing]

martian, on 03 May 2024 - 11:35 PM, said:

TAG is not useless, you just have to understand its characteristics.

i understand them enough to know that there are better options. peepers for me.

only place i ever really used tag was back when it still provided a lock time buff, and usually with streaks. id group it with my missiles and just hold the button down.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 May 2024 - 12:55 PM.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 05 May 2024 - 12:52 PM, said:

i understand them enough to know that there are better options. peepers for me.

only place i ever really used tag was back when it still provided a lock time buff, and usually with streaks. id group it with my missiles and just hold the button down.

TAG is much lighter than even the lightest PPC.

Also, TAG needs just one equipment slot and in this respect is better than any PPC.

[LordNothing]

martian, on 05 May 2024 - 09:14 PM, said:

TAG is much lighter than even the lightest PPC.

Also, TAG needs just one equipment slot and in this respect is better than any PPC.

were talking a 2 ton 1 slot difference. tag also does zero damage.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 06 May 2024 - 03:39 AM, said:

were talking a 2 ton 1 slot difference.

Yes. Two tons that I can use for more ammo, more armor, Artemis IV FCS or something else (depending on the exact loadout).

There are some locations where no class of PPC would fit anyway.

LordNothing, on 06 May 2024 - 03:39 AM, said:

tag also does zero damage.

Also good. Enemy 'Mech might not even notice that it is being tagged.

[Ignatius Audene]

It's rly disappointing, that tag does nothing for your own locks if the target doesn't run ECM. Keeping an freaking red dot on the target should do something. I really don't understand what Pgi smoked, when they invented this lock on mechanic...
Would an 10% spread reduction or faster lock on rly be too much? If code wise engine can't distinguish between own and leeched tag lock just give something to both (and probably make it work under low signal state; it's a damn lasertargeting...)