59 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 07 May 2024 - 05:53 PM, said:

I

It is a scatter weapon as long as you aren't just sitting still somewhere just asking to get punished (which lasers do better anyway). Keep in mind they already of splash damage so at most you are getting 64 damage in a single component for 2 HAG40s, that's less than most laser alphas.

so they did kill hags then.

[Bud Crue]

Battlemaster56, on 07 May 2024 - 03:23 PM, said:

Yeah I just went on mechdb and try to get a build for and all I got is 3 pac 4 with 2 and half tons of ammo and a plasma cannon, it just doesn't have the spare weight to boat any ballastics in a resonable level, and that's me stripping the la of ammo and the legs a bit.

The sad part is, that now that you pointed it out, I will probably run this for an evening or two, just because of the synergy between the PAC4 and the Plasma Canon. I'll try to wait for shi77y mech Wednesday.

[cougurt]

KursedVixen, on 07 May 2024 - 12:38 PM, said:

Other than the jenner IIC armor bonus reduction these look great.

it's only losing some armor on the CT. it's far more likely to lose STs since the hitboxes were changed, so this is still an overall buff.

VeeOt Dragon, on 07 May 2024 - 01:45 PM, said:

well i can't say that i didn't see the Nerf to thunderbolts coming, Cauldron can't have locking weapons be effective now can they. though at least they didn't nerf them back down to how they were. the spread annoys me some though.

they wouldn't have buffed them in the first place if the goal was to make them ineffective. the velocity decrease is arguably a buff since it will improve their tracking against faster mechs (currently they often overshoot due to their high velocity).

[cougurt]

VaelophisNyx, on 07 May 2024 - 02:05 PM, said:

>peek
>twist

Pick one

You're telling me to forgoe seeing anything to shoot while peeking to take damage and not be able to deal any back because half my mech is probably gone or close to it now

HAGs need SERIOUS nerfs.
Way too much alpha at range
buff after buff for no tangible reason

if you're frequently losing half your mech in a single peek then something tells me you have a habit of making terrible peeks.

i'm also not understanding how peeking and twisting are mutually exclusive actions. you peek out and shoot, then twist off the return fire as you go back into cover.

[KursedVixen]

Tarl Cabot, on 07 May 2024 - 05:00 PM, said:

Technically, HAGs were supposed to more akin to Spheroid's RACs, thus the damage per pellet should have been smaller with more pellets.

then there would be almost no room to introduce clan Racs later.

[RockmachinE]

cougurt, on 07 May 2024 - 07:00 PM, said:

the velocity decrease is arguably a buff

Yea, I always make sure to pump up those "Decrease Velocity" nodes in the skill tree...

[cougurt]

RockmachinE, on 07 May 2024 - 08:15 PM, said:

Yea, I always make sure to pump up those "Decrease Velocity" nodes in the skill tree...

i know it sounds counterintuitive, but the tracking behavior of lock on missiles is such that it can actually make them more prone to missing at sufficiently high velocities. LRMs aren't fast enough to suffer from this for the most part, but thunderbolts definitely are.

[MechMaster059]

Thunderbolt nerfs are legit. I've been using Thunderbolt 5s on my MAD-4HP and was getting strong "vibes" off how powerful they were. I was thinking they take the velocity down to 275m/s. Even 260m/s is still very fast. The direct fire spread of 1.5 on Thunderbolt 5s was extremely low. My only concern is the Thunderbolt 20 which is a very heavy weapon. 4x Thunderbolt 5s still weigh 3T LESS and use 1 LESS slot than a Thunderbolt 20 for much better spread and rate of fire. (Yes, I know the larger launchers are more heat efficient) The Cauldron may want to consider adding scaling cooldown buffs to Thunderbolts. (i.e. no cooldown bonus to Thunderbolt 5s, then like -0.2s to 10s, -0.4s to 15s, -0.6s to 20s... something like that)

HAG heat reduction is also legit. HAGs are WAYYYYY too hot. I recently bought a new MAD-IIC-D with a 2xHAG30 + 2xERLL build that I ripped off from BrioS who was running it in a match. (My nickname for the new mech is "EZ Mode") The thing maxes its heat bar in 2 alphas and gets stuck in chain-fire mode in a brawl even with 18 heat sinks and maxed out heat skills with 2x coolshots.

There is one way to balance HAGs and one way only: putting spread on them. They screwed up BADLY removing the spread and don't want to admit they made a mistake.


EDIT: Thank goodness the ballistic cooldown quirks on the Blackhawk were nerfed. They were OP AF.

Edited by MechMaster059, 07 May 2024 - 11:02 PM.

[Novakaine]

Slowing thunderbolts down now.
Tell me there's no bias.
What another load of BS.

[w0qj]

Straight from the horse's mouth as to why HAG40 = 8x shells of 5-damage each, as below:
https://mwomercs.com...on/page__st__80

Frost_Byte, on 28 November 2023 - 01:22 AM, said:

...So ballistic projectiles and MRMs/SRMs/LRMs are very different when it comes to server load. Missiles fire on a fixed vector/trajectory, their path is calculated and they follow that path. For SRMs and MRMs, it's just a path that expands to the spread stat and then flies straight. For LRMs or ATMs, it calculated a 3(may be 4 or 5 don't quote me on that number) point arc from firing to your target and it'll just follow that path. They're very simple, just following a clear cut direction.

Ballistic projectiles on the other hand have full physics simulation. They are impacted by gravity and can even ragdoll to an extent. The fact that these items are "fluid" in a sense and can be acted upon by external forces and missiles aren't make missiles a lot less strenuous on the server. I can't say if that design was intentional or not since I wasn't there, but generally speaking bloat of ballistic projectiles is something we want to avoid while bloat of missiles is fine. Even LB20s can push the ticket a bit and someone who understands a lot more than I do advised me not to exceed the shell count of cUAC20, which is 8 per burst. That's how we achieved HAG40 being 8 shells of 5 damage. Missiles, on the other hand, can be spammed much more liberally.

[Gasboy]

Black Hawk KU getting exactly the drop in cooldown I expected. Was surprised to see a speed buff, though.

[Samziel]

VaelophisNyx, on 07 May 2024 - 01:43 PM, said:

ah. Yet. Another. HAG. Buff.

boy I sure enjoy my entire CT disappearing from trying to peek at all 6/10 times because HAG-boating keeps getting enabled by Cauldron balance

This game is suffering with sniper-syndrome hard. TTK is far, far too low.

HAGs have been terrible as of late. 20% nerf to pinpoint/bullet was big. The weapon spreads the damage anyway as long as the target aint a potato. Havent really seen them since the nerf. Gauss is just much better for long range anyways.

Dunno if Tbolts were op but they certainly felt very strong.

Edited by Samziel, 08 May 2024 - 05:59 AM.

[Moadebe]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted here to discuss stuff before the main patch leak post was pinned and tagged. I appreciate it.

[GargoyleVine]

Thunderbolts are fine, leave them alone

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Samziel, on 08 May 2024 - 05:56 AM, said:

HAGs have been terrible as of late. 20% nerf to pinpoint/bullet was big. The weapon spreads the damage anyway as long as the target aint a potato. Havent really seen them since the nerf. Gauss is just much better for long range anyways.

That's why I'm confused about the heat buff, because it doesn't really help where the HAG is rough which is either the burst duration and/or velocity.

[RockmachinE]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 08 May 2024 - 10:29 AM, said:

That's why I'm confused about the heat buff, because it doesn't really help where the HAG is rough which is either the burst duration and/or velocity.

They're also quite hot I feel. The clan heat sink nerf also contributes to the perceived heat. I could run HAG80, now its just not viable.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RockmachinE, on 08 May 2024 - 11:21 AM, said:

They're also quite hot I feel. The clan heat sink nerf also contributes to the perceived heat. I could run HAG80, now its just not viable.

Yes, but lowering heat just brings us back to the original problem where you can use HAGs to boost your mid range damage where the velocity and burst duration become less problematic.

[RockmachinE]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 08 May 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Yes, but lowering heat just brings us back to the original problem where you can use HAGs to boost your mid range damage where the velocity and burst duration become less problematic.

Pretty much. Personally I like HAGs so I don't see an issue though

[Meep Meep]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 May 2024 - 12:19 PM, said:

Slowing down the Thunderbolts and increasing the spread. Not surprised, can't have missiles be too effective.

Hate to break it to you but the velocity 'nerf' is going to end up effectively a buff. They were too fast and were bugging out the tracking and also the hit reg. The spread increase will only really matter on the 20s which is needed because atm they are hitting in a tight cluster on center mass. This is the same routine we went through with streaks as they used to center mass seek too.

[Gasboy]

Moadebe, on 08 May 2024 - 07:54 AM, said:

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted here to discuss stuff before the main patch leak post was pinned and tagged. I appreciate it.

Don't thank us, just throw money!