105 replies to this topic

[VaelophisNyx]

Once again bringing it up that maybe, potentially, supporting the non-sniper builds is a good idea. Maps that aren't 80% open (Frozen City is the poster-child of this problem), maybe buff something that isn't capable of hitting from over a kilometer away for once, raise TTK as it keeps getting slashed shorter and shorter making anything that isn't poking from >1.5Km non-viable. Just...something has to give here folks. Feels like I'm playing modern CoD more than MW half the time.

You can't keep strangling anything that isn't sitting in the back and barely moving. Its unfun gameplay, its restrictive as hell to build around, and its boring to watch.

This isn't even to say anything about the rewards issue punishing anything that isn't pure damage, the forced heatsink punishment for daring to play light mechs, missiles in general receiving ceaseless nerfs; any number of other small compounding problems with the game.

[Gasboy]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Brawling's not dead.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Screw it, I'll take the bait.

VaelophisNyx, on 08 May 2024 - 05:38 PM, said:

Feels like I'm playing modern CoD more than MW half the time.

Tell me you haven't really played modern CoD without telling me you haven't played a modern CoD. If you think camping long range is what CoD or MW is about then I'm sorry your bad at both games?

VaelophisNyx, on 08 May 2024 - 05:38 PM, said:

Once again bringing it up that maybe, potentially, supporting the non-sniper builds is a good idea. ..., maybe buff something that isn't capable of hitting from over a kilometer away for once, raise TTK as it keeps getting slashed shorter and shorter making anything that isn't poking from >1.5Km non-viable.

I'm curious, what mechs builds do you think have been getting buff after buff?

VaelophisNyx, on 08 May 2024 - 05:38 PM, said:

This isn't even to say anything about the rewards issue punishing anything that isn't pure damage.

What exactly do you think should be rewarded? This game doesn't really have much in the way of utility like traditional FPS (frag, flash, stun, and/or incendiary grenades for example).

[Gasboy]

Quote

What exactly do you think should be rewarded? This game doesn't really have much in the way of utility like traditional FPS (frag, flash, stun, and/or incendiary grenades for example)

I think they're complaining that damage is more heavily weighted than 'scouting' or 'capping' and the like when it comes to rewards. Or perhaps they don't realize what else one can do to earn rewards besides pewpewpew.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gasboy, on 08 May 2024 - 08:07 PM, said:

I think they're complaining that damage is more heavily weighted than 'scouting' or 'capping' and the like when it comes to rewards. Or perhaps they don't realize what else one can do to earn rewards besides pewpewpew.

Problem is with the scouting bit, it's easier to scout with your eyes than it is with radar (radar being LoS and limited range unlike visibility doesn't help in that regard), and the idea of rewarding people for using their mic sounds ripe for abuse :laughing:

So not really much that can be done about that.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 08 May 2024 - 08:12 PM.

[Gasboy]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 08 May 2024 - 08:11 PM, said:

Problem is with the scouting bit, it's easier to scout with your eyes than it is with radar (radar being LoS and limited range unlike visibility doesn't help in that regard), and the idea of rewarding people for using their mic sounds ripe for abuse :laughing:

So not really much that can be done about that.

True enough. But, for example, you do get rewarded for damage people do to mechs under your UAV. There could be other things added along those lines. I do understand why damage is rated highest though.

[RockmachinE]

The people who have the most say in the balancing MWO are clearly biased against lock on weapons. We just have to live with this fact. Luckily there's plenty of other fun weapon systems. Lately LRMs and TBs have been made semi viable again. On the other hand, there's still trauma from the lurmageddon days, LRM meta was one of the worst, the game just wasn't fun.

I'd prefer longer TTK. Its an old MMO though, power creep is bound to happen. You need to give people new stuff. New eventually means more damage. Decreasing TTK across the board would mean drastic changes. At this stage any drastic change could potentially drive people away and kill of the game. We don't want this.

Lately engagement ranges have become shorter again and brawling is back. There's still a few LR pokers and snipers. You'll always get that.

I'm not sure what you're talking about when it comes to lights. They are high risk high reward mechs with little room for error, which is what they're supposed to be. They are devastating in the right hands. Especially with the emergence of AP gauss type weapon systems. MWO is combat, action focused. If you want really long matches with scouting etc Mechwarrior Living Legends is the place to be.

[RockmachinE]

Gasboy, on 08 May 2024 - 08:23 PM, said:

I do understand why damage is rated highest though.

Because for this style of game it matters the most. The biggest contribution you can make is by damaging, crippling and killing mechs. Whether that appeals to individual people is a different question. The scoring system reflects the nature of the game well.

[Nine-Ball]

They already fixed the Direstar so you won't see a 120 alpha strike flying at the speed of plaid from across the map at the start like its warthunder 10.0+

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 08 May 2024 - 07:56 PM, said:

Screw it, I'll take the bait.


Tell me you haven't really played modern CoD without telling me you haven't played a modern CoD. If you think camping long range is what CoD or MW is about then I'm sorry your bad at both games?


I'm curious, what mechs builds do you think have been getting buff after buff?


What exactly do you think should be rewarded? This game doesn't really have much in the way of utility like traditional FPS (frag, flash, stun, and/or incendiary grenades for example).

Ams missiles shot down should be rewarded a little i think, you are benifiting your team by shooting down missiles removing that reward really disnsentivises using ams at all.

Edited by KursedVixen, 08 May 2024 - 11:33 PM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

the incentive for using AMS is not getting rained on when you get caught out of cover

not being dead lets you do what matters, killing robots

[crazytimes]

I think this could be fixed with a few simple buffs to LRMs and Black Knights, in conjunction with some nerfs to all assaults and lights. If assaults all lead from the front and shared armour more it would probably help as well.

It's very important that no one should play to their mech's strengths, they should play how you want them to. Definitely more armour sharing as part of that though.

Edited by crazytimes, 09 May 2024 - 01:01 AM.

[Samziel]

Snipers arent even the best option imo. You just get left behind to get farmed by enemy in the mindless nascar. More often than not I find myself having to keep up with the team and end up midrange with a sniper, making my build suboptimal. I find midrange builds more consistent and "meta". But if supported snipers are good, nothing too strong though.

Brawling aint dead. It's just more difficult to position than other styles. Skill to learn, as always.

Edited by Samziel, 09 May 2024 - 01:20 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 08 May 2024 - 11:32 PM, said:

Ams missiles shot down should be rewarded a little i think ...

It would be a nonsense for AMS to generate Match Score / Pilot Skill Rating bonus, because AMS works automatically and no display of piloting or gunnery skills is required for its function.

Ditto for XP: Flanking. Scouting. Capturing bases. Killing enemy 'Mechs, etc. - these actions at least require some active input.
AMS is just a passive item that you equip in the 'Mechlab and do not touch it for the rest of the game.

But I think that some C-Bills bonus would be acceptable, if you wish.

KursedVixen, on 08 May 2024 - 11:32 PM, said:

... you are benifiting your team by shooting down missiles ...

You invest some tonnage in Anti-Missile System - you get better protection against missiles. You have got exactly what you paid for.

KursedVixen, on 08 May 2024 - 11:32 PM, said:

... removing that reward really disnsentivises using ams at all.

You can equip your 'Mech with AMS AND use your 'Mech's weapons to actually kill or damage enemy 'Mechs at the same time.

[Moadebe]

As far as the AMS giving something for taking it.

Been pushing for it for awhile. General consensus is yes it SHOULD give SOMETHING for taking it. Yes AMS effectively gives armor by removing missiles from the playing field (which is potential damage.)

Cauldron has stated that they have submitted it multiple times and its on PGI to do. (Just a reminder that the cauldron might submit the ideas driving balance. PGI is still the deciding factor, and has final say.) It might actually take a small bit of coding in order to get a c-bill reward for AMS and with MW5: Clans in the backstretch thats REALLY not gonna happen for MWO.

Ultimately its on PGI to allow AMS to give rewards.

Everyone agrees that it should at least give some C-Bills. XP is a little slippery (but honestly...a way to level up mechs and to incentivize newer players to at least bring one would help with missile spam at lower tiers. C-Bills will accomplish this too though and so XP sits behind C-Bills as a reward.) It should never give match score though since that affects PSR and well.....no.

Edit: Honestly. Take the AMS anyway. No need to omit it just because it doesn't give anything you can really see. Ive had close matches (11-12) where I have shot down over 1k missiles before. Id imagine that damage removed from the field played a key factor in those kinds of wins. Rare as they are.

Edited by Moadebe, 09 May 2024 - 04:20 AM.

[Gasboy]

RockmachinE, on 08 May 2024 - 08:48 PM, said:

Because for this style of game it matters the most. The biggest contribution you can make is by damaging, crippling and killing mechs. Whether that appeals to individual people is a different question. The scoring system reflects the nature of the game well.

I did say I understood, my dood.

[LordNothing]

brawling isn't something you should build for, it is however something you will eventually have to do during the course of a match. those who want to brawl should build midrange. trade early brawl later.

i mean if you are hiding in a ditch waiting for the end game, just remember that your team has to get there a man down.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 May 2024 - 06:50 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 09 May 2024 - 06:47 AM, said:

brawling isn't something you should build for, it is however something you will eventually have to do during the course of a match. those who want to brawl should build midrange. trade early brawl later.

i mean if you are hiding in a ditch waiting for the end game, just remember that your team has to get there a man down.

I think this is the part that is misunderstood, a lot people don't realize that a lot of the high level concepts of chess (spacing, initiative/tempo, trading, opening move, midgaming, endgaming, etc) are very applicable to mechwarrior as well just like it is most if not all tactical shooters.

[Papaspud]

It is about the alphas getting stronger= hard to want to take a look, when it costs 10% of your health.... then you realize your team is waiting for....something, as it races around the map.

[Gas Guzzler]

As if brawling wasn’t immensely powerful right now.

Regarding the AMS bit, I think it should print CBills and XP, but not Match Score.