8 replies to this topic

[Heat Skink]

Now that inner sphere has their equvilent of an ATm launcher it's time to make ATms work like they should i'm not asking for the 3 damage per missile back I'm asking for them to be able to work at 0 meters, even if damage is reduced....

[martian]

Heat Skink, on 16 July 2024 - 04:37 AM, said:

Mrms And Thunderbolts Work At 0 Meters So Atms Should Too

Now that inner sphere has their equvilent of an ATm launcher it's time to make ATms work like they should i'm not asking for the 3 damage per missile back I'm asking for them to be able to work at 0 meters, even if damage is reduced....

How many times do I have to tell you that you can not cherry-pick one aspect while ignoring everything else that does not suit your agenda?

1) IS MRMs do full damage at 0 metres, but their maximum range is just 550 metres. The maximum range of Clan ATMs is 1100 m. Spot the difference.

2) IS MRMs are unguided up to 550 metres. Clan ATMs track their target up to 1100 metres. Spot the difference.

3) IS Thunderbolt Missile does just a half of its nominal damage within its minimum range. Such damage is so small that it is generally ignored, unless your 'Mech has cherry red CT.
On top of that, with the exception of the lightest Thunderbolt Missile (that fires just one missile), all other Thunderbolts fire multiple missiles and thus they deal spread damage, not concentrated damage.

4) IS Thunderbolt Missile has the maximum range of 630 metres. The maximum range of Clan ATMs is 1100 m. Spot the difference.

Conclusion: Your Clan ATMs massively outrange IS MRMs and Thunderbolt Missiles - by hundreds of metres. A small fact that you have conveniently "forgot" to mention.

Your idea that your Clan ATMs should also massively outgun IS MRMs and Thunderbolt missiles in close combat would significantly unbalance the game.

Edited by martian, 16 July 2024 - 07:28 AM.

[D V Devnull]

martian, on 16 July 2024 - 06:13 AM, said:

How many times do I have to tell you that you can not cherry-pick one aspect while ignoring everything else that does not suit your agenda?

<<< snip >>>

There's one more thing you can add to that statement. It would also completely wipe out any value in Clan SRMs & Clan Streaks which currently exists, if those Clan ATMs were to lose the minimum range that they have right now. I think we can agree that is something which should not happen, right?

~D. V. "change one weapon, like Clan ATMs for example, and the knock-on effects can be quite ugly" Devnull

[Heat Skink]

D V Devnull, on 16 July 2024 - 07:48 AM, said:

There's one more thing you can add to that statement. It would also completely wipe out any value in Clan SRMs & Clan Streaks which currently exists, if those Clan ATMs were to lose the minimum range that they have right now. I think we can agree that is something which should not happen, right?

~D. V. "change one weapon, like Clan ATMs for example, and the knock-on effects can be quite ugly" Devnull

like clan streaks are even worth the extra weight atm.

[Heat Skink]

D V Devnull, on 16 July 2024 - 07:48 AM, said:

There's one more thing you can add to that statement. It would also completely wipe out any value in Clan SRMs & Clan Streaks which currently exists, if those Clan ATMs were to lose the minimum range that they have right now. I think we can agree that is something which should not happen, right?

~D. V. "change one weapon, like Clan ATMs for example, and the knock-on effects can be quite ugly" Devnull

and mrms or thunderbolts have no made IS Srms obsolete? Srm 4 2 are still lighter adn srm 6 is one slot smaller than atm 3.

as an alternative idea i'd be okay with giving certain mechs like the Howl a quirk to make Atms on it only 0 meter usable.

Edited by Heat Skink, 16 July 2024 - 08:18 AM.

[torsie]

Would it really be that big problem if they had same lower damage on short range like for example Clan LRM ? Where it is not zero but is lower and lower when you are closer?

I think it is weird to lose all damage at once, but it is also good idea to give it as disadvantage to some weapons.
I think even IS LRM could have reduced damage on closer range like this.

I do not think it is suddenly going to make SSRM useles, noone is using them anyway right now and ATM are still pretty large and heavy.

Thunderbolts are better than both IS LRM and SSRM and they did not replace them, and MRM are still super bad.

[Heat Skink]

torsie, on 16 July 2024 - 09:14 AM, said:

Would it really be that big problem if they had same lower damage on short range like for example Clan LRM ? Where it is not zero but is lower and lower when you are closer?

I think it is weird to lose all damage at once, but it is also good idea to give it as disadvantage to some weapons.
I think even IS LRM could have reduced damage on closer range like this.

I do not think it is suddenly going to make SSRM useles, noone is using them anyway right now and ATM are still pretty large and heavy.

Thunderbolts are better than both IS LRM and SSRM and they did not replace them, and MRM are still super bad.

that'd be ok.

[Heat Skink]

martian, on 16 July 2024 - 06:13 AM, said:

How many times do I have to tell you that you can not cherry-pick one aspect while ignoring everything else that does not suit your agenda?

How many times are you going to use that excuse to just shut someone's argument down?

martian, on 16 July 2024 - 06:13 AM, said:

[color=#959595]Your idea that your Clan ATMs should also massively outgun IS MRMs and Thunderbolt missiles in close combat would significantly unbalance the game.

WHen did i ever use the word outgun? and how can Atms out gun thunderbotls beyond thunderbolts maximium range?? from 550-1100 atms do 1.6/1.5 per missile thunderbolts do 5 damage from 550 -630 that's still more than 4.8/4.5 thunderbotls still out damage atms. in this bracket

Heat Skink, on 16 July 2024 - 04:37 AM, said:

even if damage is reduced....

either give thunderbolts actual DICTIONARY DEFINTION MINIMIUM RANGE or give Atms no minimium range not both

Why does IS thunderbolt get the best of both worlds not to mention HIGHER DAMGE per missile and higher health per missile?

You also forgot to mention that the atm 3 fires 3 missiles while the thunderbolt 5 fires one missile How likely is it the ATM3's 3 missiles will All hit the same location? Meanwhile the thunderbolt 5 fires one missile. The atm 3 is spread the thunderbolt 5 is like a laser that hits one location.

also unlike the thuderbolt the atm does it's max damage at 60-245 7.5/6/4.8 as the range goes higher the damage gets lower
meanwhile the thunderbolt5 is doing 2.5/5 as the range increases the damage jumps up instead of down.

at 730 meters which i think with full range skill tree node the thunderbolt still does more damage.

atm 6 at max range 9.6
Thunderbolt 10 max range 10

atm 9 at max rnage 14.4

tgybderbotl 15 at max range 15

atm 12 at max range 19.2
thunderbolt 20 at max range 20

I don't see where Atms out gun Thunderbolt at their max ranges if i recall max range with skill tree is about 730 at that range Atms are doing less damage. besides Atms are not suppose to do alot of damage at long range.

Atms are suppose to be close range weapons Thunderbolts are not.

I never said atms should out gun thunderbolts at their max range I said they should outgun thunderbolts within 0-245 range bracket. Aka short range.

then again what do you know lock on weapons don't exist in tier 1.

Edited by Heat Skink, 16 July 2024 - 02:51 PM.

[Heat Skink]

D V Devnull, on 16 July 2024 - 07:48 AM, said:

There's one more thing you can add to that statement. It would also completely wipe out any value in Clan SRMs & Clan Streaks which currently exists, if those Clan ATMs were to lose the minimum range that they have right now. I think we can agree that is something which should not happen, right?

~D. V. "change one weapon, like Clan ATMs for example, and the knock-on effects can be quite ugly" Devnull

only CSSRMs would be MAYBE remotely wiped out since CSSRMs do less than 2 damage per missile Srms are lighter

C SSRMS have a max range of 414 which atms do more damage only because Clan SSRMs as stated before do less than 2 damage per missile and streaks require a lock to fire. though I doubt CSSRMS WIll be obsolete as SSRMS do not stop tracking when the shooter loses lock, this is a key feature that makes streaks more unique than any other missile system. streaks are still lighter than atms for the most part and take up less space so they'll still have a niche

CSRMS however are lighter fire more missiles per ton and take up less space, as long as you don't use artemis but this only applies for the lighter launchers.

For the same tonnage and space as an atm 3 you can get 2 Csrm2's so 4 missiles. an atm3 weights as much as 3 srm 2's i'm pretty sure 3x2 is bigger than 3x1

Atm 6 is heavier and bigger than 2 srm4's

atm 9 is heavier and bigger than 2 srm 6's

Atm 12 is beat out by 4 srm 6's by 1 ton... and 1 slot so srms are still lighter and smaller.

pretty sure csrms won't be wiped out by atms there will still be uses for them..

Edited by Heat Skink, 16 July 2024 - 03:08 PM.