75 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

GreyNovember, on 08 August 2024 - 10:37 AM, said:

Bold of you to assume people will stop prioritizing pew pew if the mode doesn't say "Skirmish"

More a case of "which do you hate more: a three-minute base trade one game in a hundred, or chasing the final Spider/Shadow Cat/Arctic Cheetah/Whatever around the map for ten minutes every fifth game?"

For a great many of us, the latter is a much bigger issue than the former, especially as the presence of bases on Assault also provides the briefest, tiniest breath of tactical capacity since you can play around with base-touching on the enemy. Assault is simply a stronger game mode, even if that doesn't make it 'strong'.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

I rememner a fella.can't remember his tag, or name but it went on to say treat every game as skirmish, and it's a win win... More or less it does work. Example, my team was broken up over 2 points, the other team was murderballing tje caps. Needless to say, it worked really freaking well... We got murder balled!!!

[VeeOt Dragon]

yeah i agree with others in that i will always choose a game mode with an alternate win condition over skirmish. yes my favorite is Conquest. i am a mostly Heavy Mech pilot (lately assaults because i have been having a blast with my Wolf Phoenix running TBs and MLs). hell nothing is funnier than when you are getting stomped and some some cheeky light or fast medium goes on your team caps the point and steals the victory. also i would much rather have a way to get the match over when the last mech is one that runs off and hides somewhere (most often something like a Flea or Locust). hell if i am spectating and one of my teammates is the last mech on our team and runs off to hide and shut down i will sent his location to the enemy, he deserves a coward's death. even if you have no weapons left or something there is no reason to drag everyone elses game out like that.

but yeah i can often tell within the first minute of a match if its gonna be a win or a loss based on where the team is moving to on what map/game mode. it doesn't mean i am gonna put in any less effort though. i honestly don't pay much attention to who is on the teams or what units. i just play to have a good time. i have some basic memory issues so its not like i would remember very often who are the so called "Elite" units and who aren't. hell more than once i pull a dumb **** move myself. mostly its i either get to impatient/aggressive or i get target fixation and don't notice that the rest of the team has move on leaving me behind. (the late is far more common when i am playing an LRM/TB boat with some good spotting happening while the former happens when i can't get any spots from my team and have to exclusively get my own locks (on average i go about 50/50 between my own locks and team ones in any given match).

on a side note convening tiers i have noticed that ever since i hit T2 i have been having a field day with Locking weapons. since higher tier players often go without AMS i feel that i am getting more damage on target in a given match. (to all those LRM haters don't cry about lurms if you don't carry and AMS)

though there are some basic things i wish people would pay attention to like not trying to follow the lights when you are in much slower mechs or scattering to the winds. then again more often than not the cries for help (usually using the command wheel) come from lights that have overextended and find themselves all alone 1500m from the rest of the team. sorry bud can't help ya if you aren't in range or in the case of direct fire weapons if i can't see you.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 10 August 2024 - 11:11 PM.

[Besh]

VeeOt Dragon, on 10 August 2024 - 11:06 PM, said:

yeah i agree with others in that i will always choose a game mode with an alternate win condition over skirmish. yes my favorite is Conquest. i am a mostly Heavy Mech pilot (lately assaults because i have been having a blast with my Wolf Phoenix running TBs and MLs). hell nothing is funnier than when you are getting stomped and some some cheeky light or fast medium goes on your team caps the point and steals the victory. also i would much rather have a way to get the match over when the last mech is one that runs off and hides somewhere (most often something like a Flea or Locust). hell if i am spectating and one of my teammates is the last mech on our team and runs off to hide and shut down i will sent his location to the enemy, he deserves a coward's death. even if you have no weapons left or something there is no reason to drag everyone elses game out like that.

but yeah i can often tell within the first minute of a match if its gonna be a win or a loss based on where the team is moving to on what map/game mode. it doesn't mean i am gonna put in any less effort though. i honestly don't pay much attention to who is on the teams or what units. i just play to have a good time. i have some basic memory issues so its not like i would remember very often who are the so called "Elite" units and who aren't. hell more than once i pull a dumb **** move myself. mostly its i either get to impatient/aggressive or i get target fixation and don't notice that the rest of the team has move on leaving me behind. (the late is far more common when i am playing an LRM/TB boat with some good spotting happening while the former happens when i can't get any spots from my team and have to exclusively get my own locks (on average i go about 50/50 between my own locks and team ones in any given match).

on a side note convening tiers i have noticed that ever since i hit T2 i have been having a field day with Locking weapons. since higher tier players often go without AMS i feel that i am getting more damage on target in a given match. (to all those LRM haters don't cry about lurms if you don't carry and AMS)

though there are some basic things i wish people would pay attention to like not trying to follow the lights when you are in much slower mechs or scattering to the winds. then again more often than not the cries for help (usually using the command wheel) come from lights that have overextended and find themselves all alone 1500m from the rest of the team. sorry bud can't help ya if you aren't in range or in the case of direct fire weapons if i can't see you.

Many Games, there is absolutely Zero communication, and players play without regard for anything but their own personal score . Don't care for positioning, don't care for callouts, don't care for supporting each other .

Or you get matches like half the Team chilling WAY far out of the fight (nvmnd someone dropped a UAV and OpFor position is clearly visible on minimap, nope, THEY dont move...), doing nothing but watching Teammates get wrecked , then also die quickly .

Edited by Besh, 11 August 2024 - 07:15 AM.

[VaelophisNyx]

Besh, on 11 August 2024 - 06:58 AM, said:

Many Games, there is absolutely Zero communication, and players play without regard for anything but their own personal score . Don't care for positioning, don't care for callouts, don't care for supporting each other .

Aside from general anti-social behavior being rampant in this type of game, I'd imagine there might potentially be a game design issue driving lack of team coordination. Possibly the whole...you know...punishing you for not doing tons of damage? If the rewards system wasn't so damage-centric and actually didn't care how the other team did, it might ease up on people just turning off their brain and holding W to try to get 1k damage (and most often failing)

[stripped]

TL;DR.

I just want to throw in some observations I made.

1. Premades dropping in a match with way too much undertonnage - cause...fun? Or training? Or wanting assault mode and end up getting skirmish.

2. TTB/Baradul/whoever-tryhards using their builds without their skills.

3. Suspiciously many cockpit shots in the last weeks.

Also: Shoot the UAVs.

Edited by stripped, 13 August 2024 - 10:53 PM.

[1453 R]

stripped, on 13 August 2024 - 10:43 PM, said:

1. Premades dropping in a match with way too much undertonnage - cause...fun? Or training? Or wanting assault mode and end up getting skirmish.

If singleton players can drop in Fleas and nobody cares, grouped players can drop in whatever they feel like as well. You as a singleton technically have one hundred tons of drop weight - do you maximize it every single time?

stripped, on 13 August 2024 - 10:43 PM, said:

2. TTB/Baradul/whoever-tryhards using their builds without their skills.

Very few builds in this game have specific skill requirements that aren't general 'Mech piloting requirements. There's almost never any specific secret sauce or tech to making a given design work in MWO, and when there is the popular streamers always lay that tech out. The "tech" in making a MWO build work is knowing when and how to take the engagements the build was designed to take, and that's a skill you have or don't have regardless of the builds you use.

Most of the time, the builds top guys like TTB or Baradul use are simpler and easier to run than Mosh Pit builds because top guys like those hyperfocus and ultraprioritize on extremely focused builds that do one thing, and do that thing to the zenith of the 'Mech's ability. The complicated bracket-firing multiple-disparate-weapon builds that take kibitzing to get any work done with are generally the domain of TT purists or casuals in the lower tiers - top compy guys are instead big fans of K.I.S.S. The engineering concept, not the band.

stripped, on 13 August 2024 - 10:43 PM, said:

3. Suspiciously many cockpit shots in the last weeks.

Unpleasant, and does seem more prevalent than when I played years ago, but hardly a pandemic. Usually it's one night out of a run where I get headcapped two or three times in quick succession and start wondering if I'm the victim of an aimbot, but even then it's simply "welp, them's the breaks", move on, and try again.

Could also put more armor on your noodle; head components in MWO are ridiculously well protected by tabletop standards, it's actually not easy to put up enough PPFLD to headchop a fully armored/DuraSkilled head component. You get 24 armor and a-number-I-can't-remember-off-hand-that's-close-to-20 structure; if you fully armor the head it takes a dual heavy Gauss, triple heavy PPC, or similarly unusually spiky PPFLD build to instagib your braincase. It's tempting to shave that head down because meaningful head damage is so rare and tonnage is precious, but if you're really feeling the Buzzcut Blues? You can spare a few more points from your arms and legs to give yourself a bit more insulation against potential aimbots.

stripped, on 13 August 2024 - 10:43 PM, said:

Also: Shoot the UAVs.

Would be frickin' nice if more'n about half the population cared. But that's still way better than games like CoD, where if you don't handle stuff like UAVs yourself it doesn't get done. Ah well. 'Course, the other option is to not be where the UAV is. Murderball less, and you get outed by UAVs less. Easy solve.

[stripped]

1453 R, on 15 August 2024 - 07:02 AM, said:

If singleton players can drop in Fleas and nobody cares, grouped players can drop in whatever they feel like as well. You as a singleton technically have one hundred tons of drop weight - do you maximize it every single time?

Irrelevant @ single players because MM does not throw 12 lights together.

1453 R, on 15 August 2024 - 07:02 AM, said:

The "tech" in making a MWO build work is knowing when and how to take the engagements the build was designed to take, and that's a skill you have or don't have regardless of the builds you use.

I see you agree.

1453 R, on 15 August 2024 - 07:02 AM, said:

Could also put more armor on your noodle;

I did not state that I was being cockpit killed but cockpit shot a lot more. I run my Mechs almost fully armoured but I still find it suspicious.

[DarkBazerker]

Context is key. For example I will almost always go basement on HPG until they make it so players cant stand on the wall.

[1453 R]

DarkBazerker, on 19 August 2024 - 03:12 PM, said:

Context is key. For example I will almost always go basement on HPG until they make it so players cant stand on the wall.

Then you will generally die and lose on HPG.

Basement holds CAN work, but only if the entire team - and I mean the ENTIRE team - goes in on the plan and commits. If even one guy wanders out and dies, your basement hold goes up in smoke and you have to abandon it. At which point you pay the price in blood to break back out of the basement, usually piecemeal out three different doors because Puglandia, and your team basically threw the game.

Meanwhile the oh-so-dreaded Wall Snipers are almost always a nonfactor in Puglandia matches. The Wall Sniper's team has neither the knowledge nor the inclination to properly take advantage of long range overwatch, and the Wall Snipers themselves deal relatively minimal damage and are fairly easy to stay out of the line of fire of. Furthermore, Wall Snipers are real dang easy to countersnipe since they have very little cover and thus their positioning and movement is pretty predictable. You don't even need to deal much damage - chunk some LAC/5, LPL, plasma cannon, or whatever else you have at them from way outside nominal, and the sheer panic of Being Counterfired will suppress most snipers. They'll back off and yield the field, at which point you can go about your Midbiss Business.

[Jugger Grimrod]

Meep Meep, on 02 August 2024 - 06:02 PM, said:

I sometimes do that with a spider. +100% cap speed with quirks is basically two mech capping and if an actual second mech starts capping it goes really fast.

Swamp *** MkII, on 04 August 2024 - 09:29 AM, said:

Team abandonment: when a pilot or 4 go.for the cap in assault, while the rest of the team is getting crushed due to the 8 vs 12.

Get three buddies and drop 4 Craels w full Cap Accelerator. Go stand on the enemy base in Assault. The mech that comes back to stop the cap gets one nasty surprise. The rest usually follow, one by one, into the grinder. If its not Assault, no biggie - you're still in 4 Craels! Go wreck face. We do this a few nights a week at times. We don't always win, but it's always fun!

[pattonesque]

DarkBazerker, on 19 August 2024 - 03:12 PM, said:

Context is key. For example I will almost always go basement on HPG until they make it so players cant stand on the wall.

this makes you far more likely to lose on HPG. The map has walls that are good for snipers but also gives you a lot of cover from them.

Going basement essentially traps you in one of the worst tactical spots in *the entire game*. But hey, at least you won't be shot by a blue laser (you will be shot by everything else later though)

[DarkBazerker]

1453 R, on 19 August 2024 - 08:19 PM, said:

Then you will generally die and lose on HPG.

Not like I care. Truth be told tho, living or dieing is not the point of this game now, even winning isnt. As a solo player your goal is to do enough work to make money and get a green arrow, of which I do a fair amount of.
Side note: I skipped over the rest due to to much effort to care. Have a nice day.

[pattonesque]

DarkBazerker, on 20 August 2024 - 11:09 AM, said:

Not like I care. Truth be told tho, living or dieing is not the point of this game now, even winning isnt. As a solo player your goal is to do enough work to make money and get a green arrow, of which I do a fair amount of.
Side note: I skipped over the rest due to to much effort to care. Have a nice day.

you do care but you're pretending not to so you don't have to confront the flaws in your own game. loser energy radiates from your post in levels normally seen immediately after nuclear disasters.

[1453 R]

A'ight. Why not? I'm bored, got a little time to kill.

DarkBazerker, on 20 August 2024 - 11:09 AM, said:

Not like I care.

You very clearly do, but hey. Actually not caring is pretty great for your blood pressure. Highly recommend iit, if you can try it out.

DarkBazerker, on 20 August 2024 - 11:09 AM, said:

Truth be told tho, living or dieing is not the point of this game now, even winning isnt. As a solo player your goal is to do enough work to make money and get a green arrow, of which I do a fair amount of.

Anyone still playing at this point is sitting on enough C-bills to not really care about needing any more C-bills. I've got, like...~170M right now, and I'm a total yutz.

As for 'getting a green arrow" - why? if you don't care about winning, losing, or surviving the match, what does it matter if you're getting your PSR up? Climb up the ranks and get to T1 and you'll just wind up facing snipers that might actually be moderately effective in their role, instead of Gunner's Mate First Class Philip A**hole down in the lower tiers.

Actually "not caring" means not really being fussed if you mostly stay in place. sure, taking an unbroken string of drubbings sucks, and sometimes I take a fourth or fifth brutal L in a row and say to myself "Y'know? Clearly not the night for MWO" and log off. But if you're chasing them rank-ups it means you do, in fact, care. And if you care you should try and use tactics better suited to winning fights.

Like not camping basement out of misplaced fear of Wall Snipers.

DarkBazerker, on 20 August 2024 - 11:09 AM, said:

Side note: I skipped over the rest due to to much effort to care. Have a nice day.

That's nice. You do know you get no Cool Guy Points for saying "I didn't bother reading so bye", right? This is a discussion forum. Use your words or concede the argument, ne?

[Drenzul]

DarkBazerker, on 20 August 2024 - 11:09 AM, said:

Not like I care. Truth be told tho, living or dieing is not the point of this game now, even winning isnt. As a solo player your goal is to do enough work to make money and get a green arrow, of which I do a fair amount of.
Side note: I skipped over the rest due to to much effort to care. Have a nice day.

Winning is literally the point of the game.
Playing like a damage farmer instead of helping your team is actually self-defeating, unless all
you are about is the skill arrow (which still is easier to farm by helping your team).

Also seriously... wall snipers? So easy to get around if you have the slightest clue. Sure it needs
a bit of co-ordination but so many ways to counter them without crippling your team.

[DarkBazerker]

pattonesque, on 20 August 2024 - 12:39 PM, said:

you do care but you're pretending not to so you don't have to confront the flaws in your own game. loser energy radiates from your post in levels normally seen immediately after nuclear disasters.

If being a loser means, I'm in a better mental place so be it, I'm a loser.

[DarkBazerker]

Drenzul, on 20 August 2024 - 07:59 PM, said:

Winning is literally the point of the game.
Playing like a damage farmer instead of helping your team is actually self-defeating, unless all
you are about is the skill arrow (which still is easier to farm by helping your team).

Also seriously... wall snipers? So easy to get around if you have the slightest clue. Sure it needs
a bit of co-ordination but so many ways to counter them without crippling your team.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care about psr, for me the green arrow is just a gold star or a smiley face for a job well done. As far as team work, its really hard not to use them as fodder when most of the time half the time is built for range.

[Drenzul]

DarkBazerker, on 20 August 2024 - 10:29 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't care about psr, for me the green arrow is just a gold star or a smiley face for a job well done. As far as team work, its really hard not to use them as fodder when most of the time half the time is built for range.

It would be if it remotely resembles actual player contribution.

Take the example of a light who harasses the enemy and then runs away with 3 mechs chasing him, while your team then wins 11 vs 9. That light pilot was a massive contribution to the team but might end up with a skill down. That's the most extreme example, but you get the point.

You need to be confident enough in yourself to contribute without relying on a poorly calculated score to know if you did badly or well. Even if they had programmed it really really well, its still really hard for even a human to judge exactly how much a player contributed.

And yeah I can get the frustration with pugs. Just as frustrating no matter what you play where some people charge out over the open and get themselves murdered and others hide in the corner all game. Not too much you can do about that in any game really. Can't think of any it doesn't happen in.

[VeeOt Dragon]

for me as long as i am having fun in a match i'm all good win or lose. to be honest at its very core that is what video games all for, entertainment. as long as i hit my personal benchmark i am satisfied (generally that is around 500 dmg and at least 1 kill. though if i get a solo i am fine with a little less damage. nothing hard and fast here). its all i really need to feel like i at least did my fair share. don't have to be top of the team and get ace of spades every match to be happy (hell i still don't have that achievement even after all these years. i have come damn close often enough but that last kill has always alluded me.) i don't look at my PSR and couldn't care less what Tier i am in (hell i i was massively surprised when i reached T2. being a decidedly average player who never uses meta builds unless its the only build that works for the mech at all.)