44 replies to this topic

[Mokyu]

Several times in the past weeks I've been on winning teams that I helped cap out in assault mode and I still got a down arrow because I wasn't involved int he brawl. If you have modes that allow wins by cap, then reward the cappers. Don't penalize for playing the mode.

[martian]

Mokyu, on 06 September 2024 - 05:17 PM, said:

No Good Cap Play Goes Unpunished

Nobody is punishing you. Everything is working as planned.

Mokyu, on 06 September 2024 - 05:17 PM, said:

Several times in the past weeks I've been on winning teams that I helped cap out in assault mode and I still got a down arrow because I wasn't involved int he brawl. If you have modes that allow wins by cap, then reward the cappers. Don't penalize for playing the mode.

I am going to tell you the big secret: Those objectives are just auxiliary devices that are in the game just to break stalemates, end the game quickly in case of some problem or just to force both teams to fight.

I guess that the majority of the MWO players is here to shoot other 'Mechs, not to stand in some blinking square.

But everything is not lost: Play the game as you like it and let the PSR do its job. Eventually, you will end up in the Tier that is the most appropriate for you, i.e. in the Tier filled with the players who think that standing still in some empty remote corner of the map is what MechWarrior game should be about.

[Ttly]

See, the guy above gets it. Everyone plays to shoot at each other and the objectives only exists in the background as a way to force players to play a map in a certain way.
Conquest does have a bonus on C-Bills reward though, so just vote for it, everyone just plays it almost the same way they do Skirmish anyway, and the game mode does lend to giving lights stuff to do.

[Tarl Cabot]

Mokyu, on 06 September 2024 - 05:17 PM, said:

Several times in the past weeks I've been on winning teams that I helped cap out in assault mode and I still got a down arrow because I wasn't involved int he brawl. If you have modes that allow wins by cap, then reward the cappers. Don't penalize for playing the mode.

Ending the game quickly by capping in QP Assault does not do much of anything. Now starting the cap to force the other team to make a decision or split up is a valid tactic but capping just to cap to win the game is just about meaningless in a game that is about shooting mechs. Now, if it was in FP and the faction/team is looking at winning more games than the reds to move the chess pieces (planets), that would be possible strategy to utilize though difficult to do with ejects and respawns, etc.

Essentially, you have missed the whole point of the game, shoot mechs.

[crazytimes]

Don't see them as "down" arrows, see them as guide markers to where you can match with other people that also play an online shooting game but don't like shooting things.

[RockmachinE]

Its true that capping doesn't give you much in terms of CBills and matchscore. Its too little, like comically negligible amounts, especially CB. You have to cap like 100 points for any meaningful CB gain. Its goofy af.

Edited by RockmachinE, 07 September 2024 - 03:29 AM.

[torsie]

https://imgur.com/a/v4o8ED9

This is what happens when you win conquest only by capturing bases.

2:50 of capturing for 100 score, that 0 damage assist gives you more credits than playing objectives.

Edited by torsie, 07 September 2024 - 03:47 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

hey agree with the OP in that the objectives should pay more. even if its more per tick that you are in the cap zone. some people actually like to use tactics for victory and capping the point is one of those. hell i think you should get a huge chunk o f at least C-bills if you win by cap when the other team is winning on kills. nothing better than winning while being stomped because the enemy isn't paying attention to the caps. i honestly think that capping the point should score you the same as getting a kill.

hell i wouldn't mind at all if the objectives were more important than they are. anything is better than skirmish.

[DollaMenunaire]

This game isn't about winning and losing, unfortunately, it's about racking up damage which most of the time leads to winning (but not always)

[RockmachinE]

The game is about what you wanna make it. Thats the beauty of MWO, you can play however you want. Score is not a relevant metric, you have access to everything a good player has. Better to be lower Tier anyways, quicker matchmaking.

[RickySpanish]

QP has no respawns and no good mechanism for planning or coordinating plays, like a pre-match lobby. Thus the objectives are most often not focussed on. In EQ or Comp you will see objectives play a more important role.

[LordNothing]

the reason cap pays out so little is it would discourage people from actually fighting. caps really should only be used when no other possibility for victory remains. though in conquest capping 2-3 before fighting will ensure a longer amount of time in which to fight.

[Novakaine]

I have cap excel on all my assaults.
Just for the lol factor.

[crazytimes]

Novakaine, on 07 September 2024 - 05:33 PM, said:

I have cap excel on all my assaults.
Just for the lol factor.

"Oh lol we lost again". Or "oh lol why did that assault have <100 damage and match score"?

Both hilariously good fun for the rest of the team in a team based shooter.

[LordNothing]

id fathom to guess it would be a lerm turret build.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 September 2024 - 06:53 PM.

[Meep Meep]

martian, on 06 September 2024 - 07:42 PM, said:

Nobody is punishing you. Everything is working as planned.

I am going to tell you the big secret: Those objectives are just auxiliary devices that are in the game just to break stalemates, end the game quickly in case of some problem or just to force both teams to fight.

Yep, treat all modes that are not skirmish as skirmish + optional win condition. People just want to shoot other mechs in the face.

[East Indy]

I love PGI, I really do, but Assault is a prime example of the design limes they just couldn't hold. And never got around to picking back up.

Bottom line, MWO is too superficial for players to ever commit to defense. Was clear in 2012.

Can't speak for programming, but the mechanical solutions are straightforward. These are just two possibilities:

• Base cap speed equals X divided by enemy units remaining. Adjust X from current value as necessary.
  
• Base cap progress is limited to 50% until half of the enemy force has been eliminated.

Thus, capping better shares a place with MWO's main event, which is always shooting robots.

[LordNothing]

the cap is just an exit clause for when you dont feel like chasing the locust. though i kind of wish there were anti-cowardice mechanics in the game. where caps start ticking down automatically when one team stops damaging the other, to encourage combat. the other side of it is you lose those situations where the last guy in a light actually makes an effort to win, by repositioning and doing a lot of divide and conquer tactics. ive seen some impressive play in those situations.

domination is really good at punishing inactive players who dont do the objective. so nothing need be done there. i can also imagine reducing cap time greatly in conquest to put more emphasis on fighting over the cap points and less on standing in squares. pretty much just run through and no need to linger unless the enemy tries to take it from you (the end result of that is combat so thats still a good thing). the emphasis should be on controlling territory and if the location is uncontested i dont see any reason to wait 30 seconds.

[Ken Harkin]

I agree with the OP. Objectives should have importance. I always have a level of satisfaction when a game is won on victory conditions, even when it is the opposite team. When a victory is achieved by victory conditions without eliminating all opposing mechs, other than in skimish, there should be a significant bonus to the winning side, especially if the winning side has fewer mechs remaining.

Nobody is saying you cannot take your mech and shoot at other mechs. We are just saying that something other than a continuous deathmatch creates more strategy and teamwork and can be far more rewarding and engaging.

[Ken Harkin]

Meep Meep, on 07 September 2024 - 07:57 PM, said:

Yep, treat all modes that are not skirmish as skirmish + optional win condition. People just want to shoot other mechs in the face.

I almost always encounter a couple victories in every session where the game is won in assault or conquest by the victory conditions other than destruction of the opposing force. I can't count how many times I have begged a light to go and take some random shots at the mechs capping our base in assault or to focus on conquest only to lose to those conditions WITH MORE MECHS REMAINING. Just this weekend when our base began being capped I asked one of the lights to take a look when one player started ranting about "not giving in to psychology!!!" As our impeding loss became more and more certain he strangely had nothing to say about "not giving in to psychology."