48 replies to this topic

[BlueDevilspawn]

I was wondering why this thread was still going but I see it evolved into a balance debate. I'm going to leave two points -

• Brawl is incredibly strong right now, period. That does NOT mean you get to waltz into the open against a firing line relying on 5/8/5 movement (lol) to dodge fire because a FPS relies on shooter skill rather than dice, but if you path correctly and play patiently (whether you're a Scaleshot or a AS7-S) you'll do fine. If you position poorly, you die, same as any other mech or playstyle, including sniper.
  
• Lock-ons are weak? Cauldron only caters to one playstyle? I love this argument. Let's go through all the patch notes from the past year and see ALL the lock-on ecosystem BUFFS that were put in place.

• ECM (Clan and IS) bubbles overall nerfed
  
• ECM (Clan and IS) lock time nerfed
  
• Clan ECM skill nodes nerfed
  
• Mechs with sensor range quirks are far more prevalent and serve as effective spotters
  
• Radar deprivation skill nodes nerfed twice
  
• BAP tonnage reduction to be easier to mount
  
• Command console/ASP sensor range capability added, better detection and spotting
  
• Plasma cannon added (ppc effects) to cancel ECM mechs
  
• edit: We added Thunderbolts, which are the fastest lock-ons and are essentially aimbot AC5s

Tell me, which of these is somehow NOT enabling you to use lock-ons?

Edited by BlueDevilspawn, 24 October 2024 - 10:59 AM.

[DarkBazerker]

I made coffee and cookies. anyone want cookies?

[Tyman4]

OP: Sorry, but there just aren't that many players in the game anymore. Like averaging 400-500. Across the globe that means like 25-30 in your time zone.
PGI has moved on from the game, learned nothing, and changed nothing.
They released Clans now, and OMG it's the same mech designes, the same weapons, the same stupid ****** hardpoint system. And they are SO bad at asymetric balance of a game that they needed to make it a hard lock single player experience on rails.

But I guess, at least we are out of the periphery and not yet another 'plucky mercenary squad' (who happens to have the mech inventory of a great house...)

[MrMadguy]

BlueDevilspawn, on 24 October 2024 - 10:56 AM, said:

I was wondering why this thread was still going but I see it evolved into a balance debate. I'm going to leave two points -

• Brawl is incredibly strong right now, period. That does NOT mean you get to waltz into the open against a firing line relying on 5/8/5 movement (lol) to dodge fire because a FPS relies on shooter skill rather than dice, but if you path correctly and play patiently (whether you're a Scaleshot or a AS7-S) you'll do fine. If you position poorly, you die, same as any other mech or playstyle, including sniper.
  
• Lock-ons are weak? Cauldron only caters to one playstyle? I love this argument. Let's go through all the patch notes from the past year and see ALL the lock-on ecosystem BUFFS that were put in place.

• ECM (Clan and IS) bubbles overall nerfed
  
• ECM (Clan and IS) lock time nerfed
  
• Clan ECM skill nodes nerfed
  
• Mechs with sensor range quirks are far more prevalent and serve as effective spotters
  
• Radar deprivation skill nodes nerfed twice
  
• BAP tonnage reduction to be easier to mount
  
• Command console/ASP sensor range capability added, better detection and spotting
  
• Plasma cannon added (ppc effects) to cancel ECM mechs
  
• edit: We added Thunderbolts, which are the fastest lock-ons and are essentially aimbot AC5s

Tell me, which of these is somehow NOT enabling you to use lock-ons?

Well, it's called "Two steps forward, one step back". First devs perform massive missile speed nerf and then they "compensate" it here and there by small adjustments, that aren't even noticeable. For example radar derp nerf isn't noticeable. Radar derped mechs are still 99% immune to all missiles.

I don't play now, despite of event running. Because matchmaking has been disaster for months. Back in old times I was playing during events. Mostly because: 1) Rewards were more reasonable for time spend 2) More players were playing, so matchmaking was better. Yeah. Matchmaking has been degrading since release of Clans. Mostly due to wrong development strategy - nobody needed Faction Play, so resources were just wasted. It was long ago. But at some point game started to recover. It was 2-3 years ago. Matchmaking started to improve. But, I guess, when devs merged solo queue and group queue - matchmaking went to hell. And now they make game for their precious groups? Ok. But I won't play it, sorry.

[Moadebe]

MrMadguy, on 11 November 2024 - 11:58 PM, said:

Well, it's called "Two steps forward, one step back". First devs perform massive missile speed nerf and then they "compensate" it here and there by small adjustments, that aren't even noticeable. For example radar derp nerf isn't noticeable. Radar derped mechs are still 99% immune to all missiles.

I don't play now, despite of event running. Because matchmaking has been disaster for months. Back in old times I was playing during events. Mostly because: 1) Rewards were more reasonable for time spend 2) More players were playing, so matchmaking was better. Yeah. Matchmaking has been degrading since release of Clans. Mostly due to wrong development strategy - nobody needed Faction Play, so resources were just wasted. It was long ago. But at some point game started to recover. It was 2-3 years ago. Matchmaking started to improve. But, I guess, when devs merged solo queue and group queue - matchmaking went to hell. And now they make game for their precious groups? Ok. But I won't play it, sorry.

You haven't played, but you are saying Radar Dep nerf does nothing.

It has. Actually. It could use a "tad" more imo but coupled with all the other changes its added up. One of the biggest issues was ECM. Which the single biggest help to lockon weapons was the lockon time increase provided by ECM was nerfed. All the other things added on made it less of a nightmare for lockon weapons.

I think any veteran of this game can agree that when soup que came about the matchmaker went to crap. Which is the single biggest issue in this game right now. Matchmaker = quality of games a majority of the time. Which people are admittedly getting a little fed up of how broken it is. The only answer to it is population or we get at least a little coding time for it. Which either of them wont happen at this point.

I originally wanted to say "if you dont play at all and refuse to then why are you commenting?" Then thought of just how passionate people are about not only MWO but Btech overall. So Ill just say that if you are gonna comment about some weapon systems...please at least play so you know whats actually going on.

[MrMadguy]

Moadebe, on 12 November 2024 - 07:25 AM, said:

You haven't played, but you are saying Radar Dep nerf does nothing.

It has. Actually. It could use a "tad" more imo but coupled with all the other changes its added up. One of the biggest issues was ECM. Which the single biggest help to lockon weapons was the lockon time increase provided by ECM was nerfed. All the other things added on made it less of a nightmare for lockon weapons.

I think any veteran of this game can agree that when soup que came about the matchmaker went to crap. Which is the single biggest issue in this game right now. Matchmaker = quality of games a majority of the time. Which people are admittedly getting a little fed up of how broken it is. The only answer to it is population or we get at least a little coding time for it. Which either of them wont happen at this point.

I originally wanted to say "if you dont play at all and refuse to then why are you commenting?" Then thought of just how passionate people are about not only MWO but Btech overall. So Ill just say that if you are gonna comment about some weapon systems...please at least play so you know whats actually going on.

I don't see any difference, hence difference is unnoticeable. There is no difference between "instantly" and "almost instantly". If lock is lost quicker than it's acquired - then there is no difference, how quick it's lost. What I see in game - is enemy teams with 100% mechs having radar derp, that make them completely immune to any lock on weapons.

Do you understand, what balance means? It means, that weights of all skill tree nodes invested should be equal. And how it can be fair choice, if player has to choose between something like +0.000001% dmg and being 99% immune to 30% of weapons in this game? M?

Matchmaker is bad, yeah. But even if it would be good, we just can't rely on some players being noobish enough not to abuse obvious imbalances.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MrMadguy, on 13 November 2024 - 12:55 AM, said:

Do you understand, what balance means? It means, that weights of all skill tree nodes invested should be equal.

Balance does not mean equal. In fact one could say that nodes having diminishing returns should actually be a thing so that there is a cost to specialization (which is kinda what the older tree had thanks to "dead" nodes).

I mean if we are being honest, the skill tree as a whole was a mistake. We already have a customization system, there was zero reason to actually create a separate customization system that could have easily been baked into the existing one. They were just kinda mimicking other games at the time without really thinking about how that meshed with the existing systems.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 13 November 2024 - 01:45 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 November 2024 - 01:44 PM, said:

Balance does not mean equal. In fact one could say that nodes having diminishing returns should actually be a thing so that there is a cost to specialization (which is kinda what the older tree had thanks to "dead" nodes).

I mean if we are being honest, the skill tree as a whole was a mistake. We already have a customization system, there was zero reason to actually create a separate customization system that could have easily been baked into the existing one. They were just kinda mimicking other games at the time without really thinking about how that meshed with the existing systems.

Real reason for making skill trees - to squeeze money from players for buying skill nodes. Because playing unskilled 'Mech is even bigger pain, than just playing this game, so player would usually want to first get all skill nodes and only then play his new 'Mech. And it takes both time and lots of CBs. CBs and even MCs are no longer bottleneck for me. Skill tree nodes are. So, raw skill tree points (not GXPs, that are junk) are even more valuable rewards, than MCs.

[1Exitar1]

There are days when it seems like all I get are crap teams. I had one match the other day where half my team was dead within the first 3 minutes of the match! I managed to get 1 of the 2 kills for my team before I died too. It happens. When it does, I usually log off and do something else. Then I will come back to the game and see if things have changed. If they haven't I go do something else again or maybe not play for a day.
If this happens a lot, like you said it has, then do like I did and take a LONG break from it. I took off months from the game, only coming back for a match a month. I am finally getting back in to the swing of things.