51 replies to this topic

[martian]

Ken Harkin, on 22 November 2024 - 10:11 AM, said:

Stop trying to rationalize PSR. The system is a mess. PGI is not going to fix it.

The PSR formula is not secret. You could literally do the math and compute accurately how many PSR points you - or any other player - gained or lost in any selected game.

Actually, I would like to show you one of my games.

Ken Harkin, on 22 November 2024 - 10:11 AM, said:

Rules for gaining PSR

1. Be on the winning side. Sure you can lose PSR on the winning side but MOST players go up.

I was on the defeated side.

Ken Harkin, on 22 November 2024 - 10:11 AM, said:

2. To be on the winning side it is best to be in an organized group. Having four coordinated players together from the start against skittles is a huge advantage.

I deployed as a lone wolf.

Ken Harkin, on 22 November 2024 - 10:11 AM, said:

3. If you are going to lose you should die LATE and do as much damage as possible. Forget objectives. Forget supporting your team where needed. Simply sit in your perch sniping as long as possible for maximum damage.

I beg to differ.

Check these screenshots, please.

I did everything that you said that I should avoid - and in the game that my team lost.

a) I scouted for enemy 'Mechs, so my team would knew where the enemy team was coming from ...

Snipers usually do not get this reward because by the time they see enemy 'Mechs, those 'Mechs are usually identified.


b) I used my UAVs to show the rest of my team where the main force of the enemy team was.
Some friendly Lurmer even used my UAV to spot for his missiles.

Not many snipers launch UAVs for friendly LRM boats.


c) I spotted enemy 'Mechs for friendly team mates ....



d) I brawled instead of the sniping that you recommended ....


e) I even capped enemy base, even though you said that I should ignore game objectives ....



f) I supported other team mates, even though you discouraged me from doing it ...



g) ... and as you can see from those rewards (Lance In Formation / Protection Proximity / Protected Medium), I really did not spend the game on some sniping perch.


And I ended the game with the green arrow of the positive PSR change.

Conclusion: There are other valid strategies than "Forget objectives. Forget supporting your team where needed. Simply sit in your perch sniping as long as possible for maximum damage.", even if the game goes south. You do not have to spend the game sniping.

I even dare to say that my way of playing is more fun than just camping on some sniper perch.
Well, at least for me.

Edited by martian, 25 November 2024 - 10:35 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I think as far as evaluating the value of different things in the match PSR isn't that bad at it, the problem is that it shouldn't do it.

Damage, kills, components and whatever, those are all secondary to the only relevant measure of skill: How much you contribute to your teams chances of winning the match.

Why are we measuring a thousand arbitrary aspects of performance when we could just look at how good a player is at winning matches over time? Doing that also captures things like communication and drop calling which matter a lot in MWO but currently isn't measured into PSR at all.

The other problem with PSR is that it goes blind when maxed out. It can't tell the difference between a decent player and a top competitive players because both will have maxed out PSR. It should be open ended like ELO.

At the end of the day though, the population doesn't allow for that much better matchmaking. It's a bit of a mess and you get lopsided matches but it evens out over time. A new matchmaker and elo system would be a big ask at this point, I don't think it would be a good use of money compared to making a new map or something.

[Ken Harkin]

martian, on 25 November 2024 - 05:44 AM, said:

The PSR formula is not secret. You could literally do the math and compute accurately how many PSR points you - or any other player - gained or lost in any selected game.

.......

Lots of stuff

I never said PSR could not be calculated, I said it is a mess and it is. Every other point I made is also valid. Congratulations, you had a losing match where you gained PSR, so have I and almost everyone else at one time or another. That said you are almost always going to have a better PSR result on the winning side than on the losing side. There is ZERO arguing that so just acknowledge the fact that WINNING is more likely to help PSR than LOSING.

Are you more likely to WIN as part of a coordinated four man team or as a rando? Clearly you CAN win as a rando but we all know that if one side starts with an organized premade focused on winning and not running joke builds then the organized premade side has an advantage and will win more often than lose if against randos.

Can you get an up PSR while losing and NOT having the highest damage, yes. Is it far less likely than if you did one or both of those things? Definitely so.

Playing the odds my advice definitely holds. The most important part though is to realize the system itself is screwed up, always has been, and will never be addressed by PGI so stop worrying about it. If the real goal was actualy just to win and the up carrot depended on doing the most to achieve that then a Flea solo capping the base and doing zero damage for the win while the enemy is still present would get the up carrot but it will not.

[martian]

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 08:44 AM, said:

I never said PSR could not be calculated, I said it is a mess and it is. Every other point I made is also valid. Congratulations, you had a losing match where you gained PSR, so have I and almost everyone else at one time or another. That said you are almost always going to have a better PSR result on the winning side than on the losing side. There is ZERO arguing that so just acknowledge the fact that WINNING is more likely to help PSR than LOSING.

Are you more likely to WIN as part of a coordinated four man team or as a rando? Clearly you CAN win as a rando but we all know that if one side starts with an organized premade focused on winning and not running joke builds then the organized premade side has an advantage and will win more often than lose if against randos.

Can you get an up PSR while losing and NOT having the highest damage, yes. Is it far less likely than if you did one or both of those things? Definitely so.

Playing the odds my advice definitely holds. The most important part though is to realize the system itself is screwed up, always has been, and will never be addressed by PGI so stop worrying about it. If the real goal was actualy just to win and the up carrot depended on doing the most to achieve that then a Flea solo capping the base and doing zero damage for the win while the enemy is still present would get the up carrot but it will not.

No matter how many times you write that "PSR ... is a mess and it is" or "The system is a mess" or "the system itself is screwed up, always has been, and will never be addressed by PGI", it is not going to be true.

PSR is a clearly defined formula that clearly says who gets what PSR change. Everybody is free to check it. Even you.

Your theory regarding the PSR gain "Forget objectives. Forget supporting your team where needed. Simply sit in your perch sniping as long as possible for maximum damage." has been disproved by the simple fact that I did everything the other way round and I got the green arrow, even as a solo players and on a loss: I played the objectives. I supported my team. I did not sit in the sniper's perch.

But of course, you are free to use any playstyle that suits you.

[Ken Harkin]

martian, on 26 November 2024 - 09:08 AM, said:

No matter how many times you write that "PSR ... is a mess and it is" or "The system is a mess" or "the system itself is screwed up, always has been, and will never be addressed by PGI", it is not going to be true.

PSR is a clearly defined formula that clearly says who gets what PSR change. Everybody is free to check it. Even you.

Your theory regarding the PSR gain "Forget objectives. Forget supporting your team where needed. Simply sit in your perch sniping as long as possible for maximum damage." has been disproved by the simple fact that I did everything the other way round and I got the green arrow, even as a solo players and on a loss: I played the objectives. I supported my team. I did not sit in the sniper's perch.

But of course, you are free to use any playstyle that suits you.

The PSR system is a mess as the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has agreed for years. Just because there is a formula to it does not mean it is not a mess. I can provide a formula to taking a dump in a box but you still only end up with a box with a **** in it. The system we have is a **** and all we can do is deal with it to our best benefit if that is what drives you. I play to win, not to prop up my PSR. You can play the best for the team and still get crushed such as being the sacrafice to stop the base cap or the flanking attack. You take the PSR hit and the team gets the win because the system if focused on winning, damage, components, KMDD, and kills.

I made no all or nothing statements as to what will give you the up arrow. I made generalizations which you seem to either fail to recognize or willfully disregard. They are nonetheless true.

[Miriage]

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

The PSR system is a mess as the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has agreed for years. Just because there is a formula to it does not mean it is not a mess. I can provide a formula to taking a dump in a box but you still only end up with a box with a **** in it. The system we have is a **** and all we can do is deal with it to our best benefit if that is what drives you. I play to win, not to prop up my PSR. You can play the best for the team and still get crushed such as being the sacrafice to stop the base cap or the flanking attack. You take the PSR hit and the team gets the win because the system if focused on winning, damage, components, KMDD, and kills.

I made no all or nothing statements as to what will give you the up arrow. I made generalizations which you seem to either fail to recognize or willfully disregard. They are nonetheless true.

Quick question.

If you play to win then why do you lose more then you win?

[Meep Meep]

Miriage, on 26 November 2024 - 06:10 PM, said:

Quick question.

If you play to win then why do you lose more then you win?

Solo dropping and pug teams. Only the best players are gud enough to solo influence a match in their favor and even then they might farm 1500 and still lose 12-0.

[martian]

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

The PSR system is a mess as the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has agreed for years.

I do not know about the "overwhelming majority of the playerbase".

You are invited to post your verifiable numbers regarding the "overwhelming majority of the playerbase".

But in this very thread, 22 players have posted their opinions so far, but I have found just four people complaining about PSR: You, MasterTBC (the OP), GargoyleVine and Skippy The Danger Squirrel.

That is not the ""overwhelming majority". That is not even the simple majority. 4 people of 22 is just 18%, if I count correctly.

But as I said, you are free to post your own verifiable stats regarding the MWO playerbase and its PSR opinion.

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

Just because there is a formula to it does not mean it is not a mess. I can provide a formula to taking a dump in a box but you still only end up with a box with a **** in it. The system we have is a **** and all we can do is deal with it to our best benefit if that is what drives you.

I am sorry, but you are just repeating your vague statements of ""PSR ... is a mess and it is" or "The system is a mess" or "the system itself is screwed up, always has been, and will never be addressed by PGI" without adding nothing of value. You just added that "The system we have is a ****" as your main argument.

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

I play to win, not to prop up my PSR.

Oh, I guess that this is the main difference between you and me: You play to win, I play to have some fun in non-meta 'Mechs with non-meta loadouts.

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

You can play the best for the team and still get crushed such as being the sacrafice to stop the base cap or the flanking attack. You take the PSR hit and the team gets the win because the system if focused on winning, damage, components, KMDD, and kills.

The next time add some kills, damage, etc. before you go to stop that "base cap or the flanking attack". Unless that "base cap or the flanking attack" happens in the first minute of the game, you certainly have the time to add some kills, damage and other things to boost your MS/PSR.

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

I made no all or nothing statements as to what will give you the up arrow. I made generalizations which you seem to either fail to recognize or willfully disregard. They are nonetheless true.

You literally titled your post:

Ken Harkin, on 22 November 2024 - 10:11 AM, said:

Rules for gaining PSR

I have just demonstrated that is not difficult to break your "rules" and yet gain the green arrow of the positive PSR change, on a loss and as a solo player.

You really do not have to "Forget objectives. Forget supporting your team where needed. Simply sit in your perch sniping as long as possible for maximum damage."

There are other viable strategies than just sniping from some sniper perch, while completely ignoring your team and/or game objectives..

[-Winter]

Ken Harkin, on 26 November 2024 - 02:46 PM, said:

The PSR system is a mess as the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has agreed for years. Just because there is a formula to it does not mean it is not a mess. I can provide a formula to taking a dump in a box but you still only end up with a box with a **** in it. The system we have is a **** and all we can do is deal with it to our best benefit if that is what drives you. I play to win, not to prop up my PSR. You can play the best for the team and still get crushed such as being the sacrafice to stop the base cap or the flanking attack. You take the PSR hit and the team gets the win because the system if focused on winning, damage, components, KMDD, and kills.

I made no all or nothing statements as to what will give you the up arrow. I made generalizations which you seem to either fail to recognize or willfully disregard. They are nonetheless true.

If you "focused on winning, damage, components, KMDD, and kills" instead of "being the sacrifice to stop the base cap or the flanking attack" you would probably win more and have a higher PSR. Just saying...

Edited by -Winter, 27 November 2024 - 07:01 AM.

[RockmachinE]

People just complaining cause the game doesn't play the way they'd want it to play.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Funny, I also play to win (specifically by killing 12 mechs) and my PSR seems fine/accurate. My overall and my season-by-season W/L and K/D also reflect my efforts. I play a mix of about 50% solo and groups of varying sizes.

The crux of it is (and what I've always told anyone new to the game) that you need to shoot more, shoot close to optimal, and shoot accurately. That's all it takes.

"The game scoring does not reflect my true value" is nonsense.

[Meep Meep]

BlueDevilspawn, on 27 November 2024 - 08:55 AM, said:

The crux of it is (and what I've always told anyone new to the game) that you need to shoot more, shoot close to optimal, and shoot accurately. That's all it takes.

This is 100% true. I'm not the best player by any metric but moving to almost all heavy play in mechs with high dps and pinpoint damage has jumped me up the jarls ranking to around 500 for last month from 3000ish overall and all I did was what he said above. Psr system is fine.

But.

Unless you are trying to score a slot in a competitive clan don't worry about your numbers. Play the game to enjoy yourself because gaining tiers is no reward as all it gets you are longer queue times and much sweatier play. Enjoy the low tiers if that is where you normally hover.