88 replies to this topic

[martian]

MasterTBC, on 05 December 2024 - 11:28 AM, said:

My performance is not relevant.

Oh, I would say that your performance is very relevant.

After all, you have mentioned your performance in many of your posts that you made in this thread. You also posted your in-game stats to illustrate to your in-game performance. So let us refresh your memory:

MasterTBC, on 16 November 2024 - 02:55 AM, said:

MasterTBC, on 17 November 2024 - 03:46 AM, said:

This was just the worst example i could find.
....
You can't say that i didn't contribute to my team.
PSR went down because my team maybe dealt more damage but they didn't get enough kills so it resulted in a loss.
I made the mistake of quickly killing a mech from behind instead i should have farmed them by stripping off their arms apparently.
....

MasterTBC, on 17 November 2024 - 04:12 AM, said:

I'm already getting stomped in losses.
Stomps are not fair. How can you deal enough damage when your team or the enemy is getting vaporized.

etc.

MasterTBC, on 05 December 2024 - 11:28 AM, said:

You are making the claim the current system is good.

So bring an argument.

I replied to every post of yours.

I am linking my replies for your convenience:

• #2
  
• #15
  
• #17
  
• #21

You can re-read my replies any time you wish.

[Void Angel]

RockmachinE, on 05 December 2024 - 04:58 PM, said:

The match maker will not match T1 players with anyone lower than T3, so newer players are safe. There's some perma-noobs in T1 always ripe for stomping, but that's another story .

Well, it can, if they're in a group, I think. But yeah, new players aren't going to see me, nor I them. On the rare occasions I'm grouped with players of lower tier than my own, the matches are... disorienting. People don't play the way I subconsciously expect them to.

[martian]

Void Angel, on 06 December 2024 - 01:13 AM, said:

Well, it can, if they're in a group, I think. But yeah, new players aren't going to see me, nor I them. On the rare occasions I'm grouped with players of lower tier than my own, the matches are... disorienting. People don't play the way I subconsciously expect them to.

Solo Tier 1 player meeting solo Tier 5 player happens very rarely. The number of active players must be very very low for it to happen.

[MasterTBC]

martian, on 06 December 2024 - 01:27 AM, said:

Solo Tier 1 player meeting solo Tier 5 player happens very rarely. The number of active players must be very very low for it to happen.

Let's see about that...

[MasterTBC]

martian, on 05 December 2024 - 11:07 AM, said:

Quite on the contrary, posting those both - uncropped - screenshots is a very relevant thing to do in the discussion about PSR and your peformance - and especially for you, since you started your original post and the entire forums thread with that cropped screenshot.

Replying to you seems pointless since you didn't read or didn't understand what i wrote.

You are getting hung up on the example without understanding why i posted it.

You only seem to be looking at the screenshot it has not served its purpose maybe i'm just gonna replace it with a picture of a cute animal.

[martian]

MasterTBC, on 06 December 2024 - 08:27 AM, said:

Let's see about that...

Yes?

MasterTBC, on 06 December 2024 - 08:43 AM, said:

Replying to you seems pointless since you didn't read or didn't understand what i wrote.

You are getting hung up on the example without understanding why i posted it.

You only seem to be looking at the screenshot it has not served its purpose maybe i'm just gonna replace it with a picture of a cute animal.

Actually, I replied to every single of your posts ...

I am linking my replies for your convenience:

• #2
  
• #15
  
• #17
  
• #21

You can re-read my replies any time you wish.



Your only reply was:

MasterTBC, on 05 December 2024 - 11:28 AM, said:

So bring an argument.

I find your answer very funny.

[feeWAIVER]

Don't you people have anything better to do with your lives?

[Meep Meep]

feeWAIVER, on 06 December 2024 - 09:41 AM, said:

Don't you people have anything better to do with your lives?

Yes. But I can split atoms and chew steak at the same time soooo.

RockmachinE, on 05 December 2024 - 04:58 PM, said:

There's some perma-noobs in T1 always ripe for stomping, but that's another story .

This is true. The power scaling in t1 alone makes it look like dragonball z. While the yamchas and radditz at the low end of t1 can farm anyone under them they in turn get farmed by the vegeta and goku super t1 at the tippy top. There is probably a bigger spread of skill just in t1 than from t5 to t2.

[RockmachinE]

Meep Meep, on 06 December 2024 - 02:02 PM, said:

This is true. The power scaling in t1 alone makes it look like dragonball z. While the yamchas and radditz at the low end of t1 can farm anyone under them they in turn get farmed by the vegeta and goku super t1 at the tippy top. There is probably a bigger spread of skill just in t1 than from t5 to t2.

Great analogy

[Void Angel]

Meep Meep, on 06 December 2024 - 02:02 PM, said:

This is true. The power scaling in t1 alone makes it look like dragonball z. While the yamchas and radditz at the low end of t1 can farm anyone under them they in turn get farmed by the vegeta and goku super t1 at the tippy top. There is probably a bigger spread of skill just in t1 than from t5 to t2.

I dunno about that... there have been people in T5 who insisted on using steering wheels to play MWO... But maybe there's a bottoming out effect where people don't learn the right things, find themselves on the losing side too often, and drift away from the game.

[MOPCKOE]

No, you are wrong, it is a great system. Literally the best there is in online games now.
Because you see a real response to your level of play. Ask any normal player, they will answer you something like "when I take meta builds, my tier goes up, when I go back to background builds or just start having fun, my tier goes down a number again".

Go to toxic Valve games like CS or Dota, people there try to raise their "rating" for years and have no results, the community develops conspiracy theories that are only confirmed with each passing year. The performance evaluation there gives you negativity, because it does not depend on you, but on other people in the team. And then this rotten rating system throws you to people who ruin the game, because it itself awarded you a low rating ... based on the fact that before that it threw you to people who ruin the game. The same thing in games from other corporations and, as a cherry on top, chat auto-filtering and user bans.

The only players who are having problems now are tier 1 players, I suppose, where half of the games come down to both teams waiting until the last minute until one of them gets tired of waiting and mistakenly gets under spam fire with no chance.

[martian]

Void Angel, on 06 December 2024 - 06:22 PM, said:

I dunno about that... there have been people in T5 who insisted on using steering wheels to play MWO... But maybe there's a bottoming out effect where people don't learn the right things, find themselves on the losing side too often, and drift away from the game.

Playing MWO with the steering wheel? How would it be possible? Even in Tier 5?

[Void Angel]

martian, on 15 December 2024 - 02:14 PM, said:

Playing MWO with the steering wheel? How would it be possible? Even in Tier 5?

Somebody insisted that they wanted to do it. It became a running joke for a while; but people will insist on playing with a joystick, too - explaining a zero-order v first-order controller to them went echoing in one ear, and out the other.

[Void Angel]

To be fair, I think they were trying to steer left and right with the wheel, then aim with the mouse, but still...

[SafeScanner]

PSR isnt perfect by any means and can be frustating when you feel punished for what seems like a great game but i think its "Fair" if you are not dealing damage, securing kills ect you are not contributing for a win (excluding conquest but no one likes conquest)

Instead of complaining "psr did me dirty" i would suggest OP reflect and think "how i could do better" or "what mistakes did i make" do this your PSR/game proformance will go up that is if you care about that

[Xypherious]

SafeScanner, on 15 December 2024 - 11:58 PM, said:

PSR isnt perfect by any means and can be frustating when you feel punished for what seems like a great game but i think its "Fair" if you are not dealing damage, securing kills ect you are not contributing for a win (excluding conquest but no one likes conquest)

Instead of complaining "psr did me dirty" i would suggest OP reflect and think "how i could do better" or "what mistakes did i make" do this your PSR/game proformance will go up that is if you care about that

The problem is this is a team game. One person can only do so much.

[SafeScanner]

Xypherious, on 16 December 2024 - 01:48 PM, said:

The problem is this is a team game. One person can only do so much.

you need to expand this comment but working with whats being said

yea its a team game you need to work as a team to knock out 12 red mechs to do that you need to deal damage

also one person can do as much or as little its "skill" its learning positions, its learning to aim, hitting the damn "R" key and knowing when to push and fall back sometimes the other team is just better but by learning and not repeating past mistakes you become more of an asset thus more damage and last longer

Honest question - who do you think "Might" deal more damage one who hits override and blasts 1-2 mechs and dies in the first 3 minutes vs someone dealing damage over the course of the match

SO if i talk about how i play i use Light mech exclusivly so i can't tank any serious damage but i am fast i am small i learned where the depressions/hills are on the map i lock'n spot mechs i poke i harrass if they turn arround to fight me i run away rinse and repeat am i successful sometimes people have gotten the drop on me ill admit other times the team folds or does too well both equally annoying (Side note PSR does not favour light mechs)

[Void Angel]

Team play is kind of a non sequitur, though - because the biggest way to help your team is by dealing damage. Yes, this rewards damage farming builds like LB-X spam, LRMs, and Dakka, but it's still the best measure of how much you're helping.

Take a clear-case example. Nobody would (should?) advocate this, but say we also gave a spotting 'mech full credit for the damage done by missiles using their target lock. Sounds great on the surface - but now you've got point inflation, because two 'mechs are required to deal that damage. We could give only the spotting 'mech that damage, but now we have another player who's not getting credit for using his own guns... and in both cases, what happens if there are two spotters?

A good solution lies between the two extremes of crediting spotting 'mechs damage and giving spotters no rewards at all: and that's where MWO is aiming, with its locked damage bonuses for spotting, TAG, UAVs, etc. In a similar vein, you also get bonuses for scouting. But while a case can be made for increasing these bonuses somewhat (mainly to encourage scouting to get done,) it's difficult to characterize how much you should get for these activities mathematically. But damage is math, and so it's much easier to quantify its impact on the game. That's why damage is, and always will be, the primary determinant of match score.

Fight accordingly.

[Vxheous]

Void Angel, on 16 December 2024 - 06:17 PM, said:

Team play is kind of a non sequitur, though - because the biggest way to help your team is by dealing damage. Yes, this rewards damage farming builds like LB-X spam, LRMs, and Dakka, but it's still the best measure of how much you're helping.

Take a clear-case example. Nobody would (should?) advocate this, but say we also gave a spotting 'mech full credit for the damage done by missiles using their target lock. Sounds great on the surface - but now you've got point inflation, because two 'mechs are required to deal that damage. We could give only the spotting 'mech that damage, but now we have another player who's not getting credit for using his own guns... and in both cases, what happens if there are two spotters?

A good solution lies between the two extremes of crediting spotting 'mechs damage and giving spotters no rewards at all: and that's where MWO is aiming, with its locked damage bonuses for spotting, TAG, UAVs, etc. In a similar vein, you also get bonuses for scouting. But while a case can be made for increasing these bonuses somewhat (mainly to encourage scouting to get done,) it's difficult to characterize how much you should get for these activities mathematically. But damage is math, and so it's much easier to quantify its impact on the game. That's why damage is, and always will be, the primary determinant of match score.

Fight accordingly.

Not to mention the fact that outside of competitive play where scouting is actually required (and it's more of a watch for probable enemy lines of approach in a conquest match), there's really no surprises in quick play when everyone knows where the opponents are going to spawn. Someone "scouting" a corner where 99% of the time the nascar deathball is going to come from adds no value to the match.

Edited by Vxheous, 16 December 2024 - 09:52 PM.

[foamyesque]

Vxheous, on 16 December 2024 - 09:52 PM, said:

Not to mention the fact that outside of competitive play where scouting is actually required (and it's more of a watch for probable enemy lines of approach in a conquest match), there's really no surprises in quick play when everyone knows where the opponents are going to spawn. Someone "scouting" a corner where 99% of the time the nascar deathball is going to come from adds no value to the match.

The trick is to scout the corner the deathball isn't going to come from :v