389 replies to this topic

[Jutneux]

Thank for for once again proving our points.

[Void Angel]

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

A bunch of self-serving horse crap

You haven't proven anything, which is why your first recourse is to claim that you represent the poor, downtrodden masses. Well, no, I'm sorry, that wasn't right - your first resort was to poison the well with a genetic fallacy against anyone who disagrees with you. "Huur, they're out of touch because they're the 'old guard' and can't see "our" fresh young perspective!" Your account was created in 2013! You're just as "old guard" as the rest of us, but it doesn't matter because your arguments are up for debate here, not your tenure.

And your arguments are trash. Riddled with amateur sophistry and begging every question, you're telling a self-aggrandizing story based on no evidence aside from your own bad-faith claims. Supporting fantasy with dishonesty - and hand-waving away all the detailed reasoning you've been given with "they're the ones benefiting from smashing newbs," while ignoring any and all advice about builds and tactics because you want the matchmaker to be the problem with your in-match performance.

You have to make points in order for people to prove them. All you've made is false claims backed up by your own dishonesty. Heck, with these three posts being your only forum activity ever, it's pretty obvious that you're here at the behest of a personal acquaintance - if not an outright alt.

[pbiggz]

T Hawk, on 11 April 2025 - 06:23 AM, said:

Proof of what I said. Every single sentence.

No that's not how words work.

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

They really don't understand how out of touch they are.

Dont act like you get to decide who's out of touch.

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

Everyone who has played the game longer than me is a liar and a cheater.

FTFY

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

Also, don't forget they're usually the ones benefitting from farming newer players. They're less likely to get absolutely trounced for 7 matches in a row and end up feeling like they've wasted hours playing matchmakingwarrior online.

You aren't getting farmed. That's not happening. You can say it is as much as you like, but losing isn't getting farmed. You are not entitled to wins.

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

I am a crybaby.

Don't expect politeness and pomp when you are pushing lies. You got called and now you're mad. If you don't want to get called, consider not lying.

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

Apparently someone is having issues with the 'we' in this, so I'll help them out. The first we is anyone who has ever thought the matchmaker was poo.

Nobody cares about your victim complex

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

Spoilers: this game is down to a barebones number of players. A plurality has already left.

That's not how statistics works.

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:01 PM, said:

See how it's all down to perspective? Main character syndrome.

The second we is every remaining player - we're all playing with this crummy matchmaker.

Hello main character.

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:44 PM, said:

Thank for for once again proving our points.

If you remotely think anyone has proven you right, I worry for your capacity to read and comprehend language.


None of what you two have said here is anything new. Its the same tired old tropes marched out again and again by a vocal subgroup of players who think that any time they lose its because the game is broken/evil players are preying on them/anything they can possible pull out of their asses to assert that they are righteous and losing is everyone else's fault.

Look in the mirror. There you will find the reason you lost your last game.

[1453 R]

Jutneux, on 11 April 2025 - 10:44 PM, said:

Thank for for once again proving our points.

Saying "anyone who disagrees with me just proves my point" is an easy way to win an argument. It's not a valid one, or a correct one, or one anyone else will accept, of course. But if all you're interested in is Sticking It To The Elites, this would be the point where you take your phantom W and fade into the produce mist. If we can argue this nonsense with Madguy for years, you can bet your best bourbon we're not gonna let you get away with it, either.

[Jutneux]

1453 R, on 14 April 2025 - 05:17 AM, said:

Saying "anyone who disagrees with me just proves my point" is an easy way to win an argument. It's not a valid one, or a correct one, or one anyone else will accept, of course. But if all you're interested in is Sticking It To The Elites, this would be the point where you take your phantom W and fade into the produce mist. If we can argue this nonsense with Madguy for years, you can bet your best bourbon we're not gonna let you get away with it, either.

I've said my piece and have no desire to argue ad-infinum. We're not going to see eye to eye, so I'm going play the remains of this game and try to make the best of it.

[pbiggz]

Jutneux, on 15 April 2025 - 02:23 PM, said:

I've said my piece and have no desire to argue ad-infinum. We're not going to see eye to eye, so I'm going play the remains of this game and try to make the best of it.

You should. And if you spend a little less time seething about every loss and a little more time trying to enjoy yourself, rising to the challenges as they come, and taking the losses in stride when they happen, you'll enjoy it much, much more.

[Void Angel]

Yes, please claim pseudo-victory and go away. We're not here to convince unreasonable people to abandon their toxic fantasies over the internet. We're here to prevent you from lying to newbies who might not know you're full of it. Shoo.

[MrMadguy]

Are devs going to nerf radar derp cheat abuse somehow? Whole enemy team shouldn't be able to abuse it at the same time. Again, it's too effective per skill node. Either more skill nodes should be required (much more, like 1 node = 1%) or total % should be nerfed to may be 10-20%. Can we add some sort of diminishing return? Each player having radar derp on the same team = -10% efficiency.

Plus it needs some counter, like BAP or something like that. We already have enough LRM counters. ECM, AMS, cover. At least ECM and AMS require some tonnage/slots. They require teamwork to be more effective, that is fair. At the same time radar derp cheat is completely no-brain. If whole team equips AMS - LRMs are already nullified. No need to make them completely useless.

Edited by MrMadguy, 19 April 2025 - 08:52 AM.

[GreyNovember]

MrMadguy, on 19 April 2025 - 08:46 AM, said:

Are devs going to nerf radar derp cheat abuse somehow? Whole enemy team shouldn't be able to abuse it at the same time. Again, it's too effective per skill node. Either more skill nodes should be required (much more, like 1 node = 1%) or total % should be nerfed to may be 10-20%. Can we add some sort of diminishing return? Each player having radar derp on the same team = -10% efficiency.

Plus it needs some counter, like BAP or something like that. We already have enough LRM counters. ECM, AMS, cover. At least ECM and AMS require some tonnage/slots. They require teamwork to be more effective, that is fair. At the same time radar derp cheat is completely no-brain. If whole team equips AMS - LRMs are already nullified. No need to make them completely useless.

You can just say "I want to use LRMS and be effective more, and to do that I want to make everyone else worse." It's much more to the point.

In the event you're being serious, don't use LRMs indirectly. Use a reasonably quick mech like a Huntsman with ATMs. Jump up and rain down on people directly.

TAG + 4X ATM6 will give you your long range missile fix. Get even closer and you start doing even more damage.

Unless you specifically want to sit around in an LRM XL Atlas behind cover and rely on other people to give you indirect fire oppurtunities.

[MrMadguy]

GreyNovember, on 19 April 2025 - 09:24 AM, said:

You can just say "I want to use LRMS and be effective more, and to do that I want to make everyone else worse." It's much more to the point.

In the event you're being serious, don't use LRMs indirectly. Use a reasonably quick mech like a Huntsman with ATMs. Jump up and rain down on people directly.

TAG + 4X ATM6 will give you your long range missile fix. Get even closer and you start doing even more damage.

Unless you specifically want to sit around in an LRM XL Atlas behind cover and rely on other people to give you indirect fire oppurtunities.

Radar derp makes LRMs pointless even in case of direct fire, because 20% nerf applied to isn't noticeable - lock is lost immediately anyway even in case of tiny obstacles. Yeah, forgive me for telling you inconvenient truth, but that's it. Having 80% radar derp for just 5 skill nodes is like having some sort of reflective armor, that would decrease energy damage by 80%. Is it ok? Nope. Abusing radar derp should be fair tradeoff. It should have some downsides instead of being so no-brain. Like radar range being decreased by 16% for each radar derp node. Or even may be something more noticeable, like all weapons' range decreased by 16% for each node.

And another thing. Devs should post skill node popularity stats here. Skill nodes should be small perks, not must have things. One single node shouldn't be super-popular. If 90% of playerbase abuses radar derp - then it should be nerfed just to compensate it's "popularity" vs other nodes.

Edited by MrMadguy, 19 April 2025 - 10:23 AM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

have you considered using things that aren't LRMs because, you know, they exist

also there are players that use lock on weapons and hang in environments with high derp and ECM so

[pattonesque]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 19 April 2025 - 12:13 PM, said:

have you considered using things that aren't LRMs because, you know, they exist

also there are players that use lock on weapons and hang in environments with high derp and ECM so

see, those players have actually chosen to adapt to what the enemy is doing and improve their own games, which according to MrMadguy is literally violence on the core of his being

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

oh he sank to 4 again, he's cranky so he's crankyposting I just realized

[GreyNovember]

MrMadguy, on 19 April 2025 - 10:20 AM, said:

Radar derp makes LRMs pointless even in case of direct fire, because 20% nerf applied to isn't noticeable - lock is lost immediately anyway even in case of tiny obstacles. Yeah, forgive me for telling you inconvenient truth, but that's it. Having 80% radar derp for just 5 skill nodes is like having some sort of reflective armor, that would decrease energy damage by 80%. Is it ok? Nope. Abusing radar derp should be fair tradeoff. It should have some downsides instead of being so no-brain. Like radar range being decreased by 16% for each radar derp node. Or even may be something more noticeable, like all weapons' range decreased by 16% for each node.

And another thing. Devs should post skill node popularity stats here. Skill nodes should be small perks, not must have things. One single node shouldn't be super-popular. If 90% of playerbase abuses radar derp - then it should be nerfed just to compensate it's "popularity" vs other nodes.

Then you Operate on the assumption that you cannot get indirect fire locks reliably, and adjust.

Change your play style, because it's not working.

The tradeoff for running RadarDerp is you don't have points to put into Armor / Structure / Speed / Cooldown / Heat Gen / Range. Or did you think you got those points for free?

Are we going to start saying people who shoot at you are "Abusing their weapon loadouts"?

If people move out of the way, are they "Abusing their speed"?

If people don't die when you hit them, are they "Abusing their armor"?

Because if I can make missiles work, there's surely a solution to your problem that does not involve changing everything to fit you.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

I don't log on at the same time as him so I am abusing my access to my desktop

[1453 R]

Guys, guys. Cut the man some small amount of slack. At least this time he's not carping endlessly about how the matchmaker is cheating him out of all his gloriously deserved free wins.

But yes. While MadGuy is of course presenting it in the whiniest, most obnoxious and failsauce way possible, there is actually an argument to be made that RaDerp in its current form is overperforming for a set of skill nodes. Most other skill nodes amplify a 'Mech's native quantities by a factor of ~8-25%, on average; RaDerp introduces an entirely new capability (giving you an auditory clue that someone has lost lock on you, which can be a significant information edge) as well as reducing lingering lock by a factor far, far higher than skills are normally allowed to go. The existence of RaDerp largely obsoletes the existence of Target Decay extension skills, as even a full set of decay extension nodes does effectively nothing in the face of even moderate RaDerp

I'd posit that the game would probably survive just fine if RaDerp was reined in, and would be interested to hear a Cauldron opinion on pulling back the RaDerp nodes to only allow 50% reduction rather than the current 80%. I'm willing to be argued either way, and frankly RaDerp could be pulled from the game entirely and MadGuy would still be butthurt, but it's one of those things where the broken clock is potentially having one of its twice-a-day moments and there might be a conversation to be had.

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 19 April 2025 - 08:46 AM, said:

Anyone who doesn't let me kill them is cheating.

I fixed your quote for you since you used way too many words to say this.

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 19 April 2025 - 12:13 PM, said:

have you considered using things that aren't LRMs because, you know, they exist

also there are players that use lock on weapons and hang in environments with high derp and ECM so

They're the ones the matchmaker punishes him by putting on the other team.

As for Radar Deprivation, I'd be all for nerfing it - if they had the engineering assets to revamp lock-on weapons entirely. But as it stands, I've lived through too many LRMaggeddons. Any significant change to LRM/ATM/TBMs has the potential to go sideways really fast, because of how sensitive balance is.

Just as an aside, LRMs have all the countermeasures they have because of how bad they make gameplay when they're dominant. And entirely unrelated things can screw with LRM balance: consider how much faster a Firemoth can get across the map compared to anyone else, and then think about how many maps have an open area next to the spawn where there's no cover...

[MrMadguy]

I have an idea. It's unfair, that only missile Meta is artificially destroyed this way. How about this:

"Reflective armor" skill node: 16% of incoming energy and ballistic damage is reflected, if fired from more than 500m range, 5 skill nodes.

"Kinetic armor" skill node: 16% of incoming energy and ballistic damage is mitigated, if enemy 'Mech hasn't been stationary for at least 2 seconds, 5 skill nodes.

[1453 R]

Madguy, you actually almost had half a point for once, and yet you actively go out of your way to ruin your own already nigh-nonexistent credibility with garbage like this? Jeegus. Literally every damn word out of your mouth is just self-entitled petulant whining. APPARENTLY now you're assmad that you can't stand eight hundred meters from the fight in your godawful waste-of-space XL LRM Atlas and farm free damage while the rest of your team carries your boat anchor self to victory?

Other people manage to do fine with missiles. RaDerp only stuffs you if you've never gotten a direct lock in your life. Get out of the bloody LRM120 assault 'Mechs, get into something quick and jumpy with ATMs, profit. Or don't. Either way, the core advice remains the same: Get. OVER. Yourself.