10 replies to this topic

[Arcadinal]

YMMV, but I'm going to respectfully suggest that the Jagermech Duelist could stand to be toned down a little bit. I had a faction match against a team where at least five or six folks were fielding drop decks with three Heavy Gauss Duelists and...that was not much fun. I think at least dialing back that range bonus a bit would even things out. Just my two cents.

[w0qj]

Every mech's got it's weakness... for Jagermech JM6-DE, have you tried shoehorning Heavy Gauss into arms?
What else cannot be put in there with Heavy Gauss?
https://mwo.nav-alph.../mechlab/jm6-de

And it's arms are rather fragile...
It's a major disadvantage IMHO... (bordering on a showstopper...)

[Samara 6J]

In its current state the Duelist is very tame imo. It drops a 50-point alpha at 500ish meters, which describes basically every laservomit, gaussvomit, or unguided missile mech of equivalent weight. Yeah, it's PPFLD, but you pay for that by running at 48.6 kph unless you want to risk an IS XL (and even then it barely breaks past 50 kph). This compounds with the Fafnir problem - the gun frontage is wide, so you have to peek wide, which means you soak up lots and lots of damage due to long exposure time and presenting a big target. It's not particularly durable, it has easy to isolate components, it has nothing going for it outside of the decent offensive punch.

Honestly, I think the Duelist's gigaquirked HGauss is basically where the weapon should have been to begin with. In its current state Heavy Gauss builds compare rather unfavorably to other IS brawling options, particularly where they compete with SNAC builds at short-ranged PPFLD brawling. Compare to the IS AC20:

HGuass: 18 tons (+ std engine tax, 4.5 on a 300 for a 100 ton assault), 5.6 DPS, ~500 m effective range
AC20: 14 tons, 5.3 DPS, ~400 m effective range


Even in just the raw stats you pay 28.5% more weight for only 25% more burst and 5% more DPS. Compared to the AC20, you also:
1: take on more crit risk (torso explosive vs ammo in arms, legs, or head)
2: have to deal with a charge mechanic
3: cannot follow up a shot with your secondary weapons due to screenshake
4: cannot mount PPC varieties as secondary weapons because of HSL limits

The HGauss advantages are sidegrades that don't really help it perform as a brawler - higher projectile velocity isn't very impactful when your ideal engagement takes place at 300m, and a longer damage falloff range isn't useful because you don't want to expose a big fat slow mech to drop 30 damage in a meta where 80+ damage alphas are commonplace. Lower heat gen is basically the sole meaningful advantage, but if you look at something like the HGauss Anni vs a SNAC KC you'll notice that the sustained and burst DPS values are actually almost identical. The SNACC build, due to the better damage-to-weight ratio, can run more heatsinks and in any case most of the heat is coming from the energy weapons, not the big ballistics.

Compared to a SNACC build you're slower, more sluggish to shoot between two firing profiles and the gauss charge, more ammo-starved, and more likely to catastrophically explode. That the Duelist got a 15% cooldown and 90% range buff to this weapon and it's still only decent speaks volumes about how underwhelming HGauss are.

[Bud Crue]

Arcadinal, on 26 December 2024 - 03:04 PM, said:

YMMV, but I'm going to respectfully suggest that the Jagermech Duelist could stand to be toned down a little bit. I had a faction match against a team where at least five or six folks were fielding drop decks with three Heavy Gauss Duelists and...that was not much fun. I think at least dialing back that range bonus a bit would even things out. Just my two cents.

Apropos of nothing: I don't know if the Cauldron follows PGI tradition/rules, but Russ, Paul, and Chris used to repeatedly stress that ONLY real QP data (as opposed to some made up data...) was use for determining balance and neither FP or Comp play was considered (though in the later days before Russ announced maintenance mode, it was occasionally admitted that Comp play was considered when making some changes). Anyway, the point being is that FP groups running what is most advantageous for a given event, especially these days, is not likely to be the best guide for what may or may not be in need of a nerf/buff.

[Rondoe]

Arcadinal, on 26 December 2024 - 03:04 PM, said:

YMMV, but I'm going to respectfully suggest that the Jagermech Duelist could stand to be toned down a little bit. I had a faction match against a team where at least five or six folks were fielding drop decks with three Heavy Gauss Duelists and...that was not much fun. I think at least dialing back that range bonus a bit would even things out. Just my two cents.

So you got your arse handed to you by one or more, so CRY NERF the thing?
Bet that hurt your precious K/D ratio and your ego.

[Saved By The Bell]

3 Hgauss? How?

[epikt]

Saved By The Bell, on 26 December 2024 - 10:55 PM, said:

3 Hgauss? How?

OP meant 3 Duelists with heavy gauss, in a faction play deck (not Duelists with 3 HGR ^^)

[Meep Meep]

Its slow and has terrible hitbox and convergence. Those are the balancing factors. So one must ask how the op got rolled by slow easy to kill mechs? Could it be: Skill?

[RockmachinE]

I can see how getting dominated by a trio of HGAUSS sweats in faction play could give of the idea of the mech being overpowered. Outside of that however its a pretty tame mech. Easily disarmed and slow. It more than makes up for the punch.

2xHG builds also tend to be very situational. They can be effective under very specific circumstances, but most of the time will be spent trying to make these circumstances happen so one can be effective in the first place. <- this sentence makes perfect sense

Edited by RockmachinE, 27 December 2024 - 03:05 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Arcadinal, on 26 December 2024 - 03:04 PM, said:

YMMV, but I'm going to respectfully suggest that the Jagermech Duelist could stand to be toned down a little bit. I had a faction match against a team where at least five or six folks were fielding drop decks with three Heavy Gauss Duelists and...that was not much fun. I think at least dialing back that range bonus a bit would even things out. Just my two cents.

There are a few IS mechs that can carry 2 HGR, and FP allows multiples to drop at the same time. And if it was a Siege drop, then two main choke points/gates. It could have been worse, it could have been several Duelists with HGR, GR, LGR on a drop

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 27 December 2024 - 02:17 AM.

[Arcadinal]

Samara 6J, on 26 December 2024 - 06:35 PM, said:

HGuass: 18 tons (+ std engine tax, 4.5 on a 300 for a 100 ton assault), 5.6 DPS, ~500 m effective range
AC20: 14 tons, 5.3 DPS, ~400 m effective range


Even in just the raw stats you pay 28.5% more weight for only 25% more burst and 5% more DPS. Compared to the AC20, you also:
1: take on more crit risk (torso explosive vs ammo in arms, legs, or head)
2: have to deal with a charge mechanic
3: cannot follow up a shot with your secondary weapons due to screenshake
4: cannot mount PPC varieties as secondary weapons because of HSL limits

Interesting perspective and I appreciate you laying out the numbers, thank you.