10 replies to this topic

[Ken Harkin]

So the MAD-3R got a HSL+1 for PPCs. I have to admit I was scratching my head with this one and decided to try some stuff out.

First I confirmed it was for just standard PPC. It is. The HSL+1 doesn't apply to SPPC, LPPC, or as far as I can tell ERPPC.

What does this mean a Marauder chassis?

MAD-3R

LFE300
4PPC
3Magshot with 1.5 - 2.0 tons of armor
Endosteel
DHS as much as you can fit.

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. The 4PPC give a very impressive 40 points pinpoint at over 600m range. The cool down is respectable and the velocity between the natural MAD-3R buff and skills is pretty much point and click at anything under 600, and still respectable further out. The 3 Magshot give a nice added 6 points of focused damage which help closer in.

Give this brute a try. Between its manueverability, profile, durability, and firepower it is a brutal mech to trade with at the 500+ meter range. Even closer, 46 points pinpoint damage is damn respectable. I found it gleefully shearing off damaged components.

[Void Angel]

This looks fun - the magshots filling the gap against very close opponents will help, too. Of course if they really want to hug you you're probably screwed, but that's what team play is for.

PS: I think you mean "1.5 - 2 tons of ammo."

Edited by Void Angel, 20 March 2025 - 08:23 AM.

[Void Angel]

So! It is fun! The heat is manageable even with max cooldown skill nodes, and while the weapons are emphatically not effectively hitscan against fast targets, they're still pretty accurate. I settled on This Build as my primary configuration.

However! The HSL quirk actually does apply to things like Snubs, or ERPPCs. Fun for the whole (PPC) family! Just bear in mind that the Heat Scale penalty threshold for standard PPCs is one higher than the snub and ER versions.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Is Heavy Gauss lumped into PPC family like regular Gauss y/n

E: apparently it is not subject to this HSL+, oh well. How strange.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 20 March 2025 - 10:45 PM.

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 20 March 2025 - 12:43 PM, said:

Is Heavy Gauss lumped into PPC family like regular Gauss y/n

E: apparently it is not subject to this HSL+, oh well. How strange.

Gauss Rifles and HGauss are included in the Gauss/PPC group on This Table, but the HSL is for the PPC weapon family, not the Heat Scale penalty group. Since the HGauss have a limit of two before penalties, it doesn't matter what the HSL for your PPCs is when pairing them. This mechanic is actually why Gauss Rifles (and HAG/20s) have an unreachably high HSL; it ensures that the PPCs, with their lower Heat Scale limits, are driving penalties, avoiding situations where a Gauss Rifle could unintentionally cause penalties on what should be a non-penalized build.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Void Angel, on 21 March 2025 - 04:19 AM, said:

Gauss Rifles and HGauss are included in the Gauss/PPC group on This Table, but the HSL is for the PPC weapon family, not the Heat Scale penalty group. Since the HGauss have a limit of two before penalties, it doesn't matter what the HSL for your PPCs is when pairing them. This mechanic is actually why Gauss Rifles (and HAG/20s) have an unreachably high HSL; it ensures that the PPCs, with their lower Heat Scale limits, are driving penalties, avoiding situations where a Gauss Rifle could unintentionally cause penalties on what should be a non-penalized build.

I am slightly confused - so if I load HGauss + 2 snub or 3 ppc it should or should not kick me a warning in lab? Oh, yellow is just LESS hot I guess, nvm, we are differentiating Gauss and HGauss in this statement

kind of confusing system when two different weapon HSLs overlap

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 21 March 2025 - 10:02 PM.

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 21 March 2025 - 01:25 PM, said:

I am slightly confused - so if I load HGauss + 2 snub or 3 ppc it should or should not kick me a warning in lab? Oh, yellow is just LESS hot I guess, nvm, we are differentiating Gauss and HGauss in this statement

kind of confusing system when two different weapon HSLs overlap

Happy to help explain! It's actually simple, but it might be a little counter-intuitive. See, what you do is count up all of the weapons in that group, and only then look at the HSL numbers. So if I'm using two Gauss Rifles and two ERPPCs, that's four guns - looking at The Table, I see that the Gauss Rifles have a limit of six, so that doesn't count - but ERPPCs have a limit of two. Hovering my mouse over four weapons fired on the table, I see that firing those ERPPCs with the Gauss Rifles will generate a MASSIVE 40.32 additional heat. If I replace both ERPPCs with four LPPCs, that's six guns, but a different weapon's Heat Scale Limit - the Heat Scale penalty will still be 42.53. Not worth the two tons I just saved.

However! If I am using a King Crab 001, my Heat Scale Limit for ERPPCs is +2. So I still have four guns, in the first instance, but the penalties don't start until I have 5 or more - Ph34R my G@U$$CR4B! In the second case though, with four LPPCs, I'm still going to generate the same 42.53 extra heat, because the Heat Scale Limit quirk only applies to ERPPCs. If it had a PPC Family quirk like the MAD-3R, you'd generate no extra heat from that loadout, either. On the other hand, if we were able to fit Heavy Gauss and two ERPPCs, you would incur the same heat penalty (40.32) as before without quirks, and a mere 8.71 in penalty heat with the +2 HSL. Sometimes, the heat penalty can be worth just eating.

Another way to explain it in general is that all weapons in the group count for "number of guns," but the actual heat penalties are calculated by weapon. Typically, that's going to be the gun with the lowest Heat Scale Limit on the table, but if you go over the limit on multiple guns (say you took four standard PPCs and four LPPCs) the biggest penalty to heat will apply.

Edited by Void Angel, 22 March 2025 - 01:15 AM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

it is funny to me that the AC20 is still vastly superior as a pairing with the Snubs, even if the HSL weren't a factor the weight and crits are and I do wonder if the HGauss shake is solely cosmetic anyway

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 22 March 2025 - 08:50 PM, said:

it is funny to me that the AC20 is still vastly superior as a pairing with the Snubs, even if the HSL weren't a factor the weight and crits are and I do wonder if the HGauss shake is solely cosmetic anyway

Nah, Heavy Gauss is a good weapon at close range, and if you can pair it with dual snubs, people will hate your face. It's not just that it has slightly more dps than the (recently buffed) AC/20 - it's that it does 25 points of pinpoint damage and has better damage beyond its effective range. With an 80-point pinpoint alpha that's totally frontloaded, pairing HGauss and Snubs is a very mean combination, with more dps than AC/20s and substantially better heat efficiency. The only downside is that your weapon cooldowns don't synch as well as the AC/20, but HGauss offsets that somewhat with its superior range.

Of course, more often people will pair Gauss Rifles with All the Lasers, for more raw dps in exchange for less pinpoint damage, but that's another story.

Edited by Void Angel, Yesterday, 05:05 AM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Void Angel, on 23 March 2025 - 04:59 AM, said:

Nah, Heavy Gauss is a good weapon at close range, and if you can pair it with dual snubs, people will hate your face. It's not just that it has slightly more dps than the (recently buffed) AC/20 - it's that it does 25 points of pinpoint damage and has better damage beyond its effective range. With an 80-point pinpoint alpha that's totally frontloaded, pairing HGauss and Snubs is a very mean combination, with more dps than AC/20s and substantially better heat efficiency. The only downside is that your weapon cooldowns don't synch as well as the AC/20, but HGauss offsets that somewhat with its superior range.

Of course, more often people will pair Gauss Rifles with All the Lasers, for more raw dps in exchange for less pinpoint damage, but that's another story.

Hmm. Might put HGauss back on the table here since it fits fine with 2 snubs. Cockpit shake is a concern though.

[Void Angel]

The cockpit shake is why cooldown synch is important. It's also why some people will use LPLS or ERMLs paired with HGauss. But it doesn't matter if your cockpit is shaking after you've just blasted five tons of armor off of a single component. =)

However, be aware that the King Crab has very wide convergence, which will affect your accuracy against close-in and fast-moving targets.