8 replies to this topic

[GreyNovember]

TL;DR How do good by myself, if I'm not a light/light-adjecent?

Running chassis that move at 80 or slower, I'm finding I can't effectively DO things.

Typically in a match, you've got two masses moving in a clockwise rotation around a central point.

Barring incompetence on the part of the enemy team, your own contribution to the outcome of the fight sounds like a complete toss up, and hinges mostly on either luck, or your continued hiding and survival, using other members of the team as meat shield distractions so you can shoot without retaliation.

Neither of these feels satisfying to engage in, even if you do win. Difficult to judge if your own actions significantly affected the match's outcome, or you just sat there leeching, as it were. You might get the green arrow at the end of the game, but then all that means is you had more damage numbers that may or may not have actually been effective, and tickled people who died to get assists.

Longer ranged builds have a better time of this, being able to poke people at 500m~ out for full damage means the game turns into who can play peekaboo the best.

Trying to run the classic AC20 Centurion doesn't seem to really work on it's own merits. You're a little too visible and hittable, and don't move quite fast enough to actually hit people unaware, and lack the range to do serious damage without also putting yourself in range of return fire and inability to escape afterward ( Which is usually not just one mech, because the speed at which you move will likely cause you to only find groups of enemies.)

So you're gambling on the enemy slipping up enough to let you isolate one or two mechs that can't defend themselves effectively in your deisred range, or you always NEED someone else to engage with you, at a smaller scale. Else, you go back to the coinflip of the deathball.

I'm finding this a struggle in Assault mechs most frequently. Feels like I have to be an ambush predator, because I can't dictate where a fight happens, or I find someone who decides staring at me in a DPS race they can't win is a good idea.

Or I play LRMs and gamble on being able to throw missiles at people consistently.

[Ilfi]

MWO is a cover-based shooter. You need to use the terrain to your advantage, and catch people out in the open. Find a good spot, bunker down for a while, and rotate after you've harvested maximum value. For most weapons, you peek, dump your load and hide ASAP, but DPS weapons like RACs want to slice corners so you're only staring at your target while no one else can shoot you.

Learn the maps, learn what weapons are good for your Mech, learn how to peek a corner or a hill, and you should do fine.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

If you are running a heavier mech that most wouldn't consider at least mid range (roughly 450m+ or so) then you probably need to rethink taking it until you get more familiar with maps and typical positions. For slower mechs (roughly around 64kph or slower), you are typically trying to position yourself to threaten a "lane". You want enough firepower with the range for that lane to destroy mechs that wonder into that lane. Typically DPS wants very open lanes with little cover where you can just continue to punish a target moving through it, while poke/alpha mechs are better where there's a little cover but good sightlines to still punish in-between buildings.

The best example of this would be Frozen City (the newer one). The low ground is mostly just DPS dreamland where you can just continually punish mechs without much cover. Playing from the buildings and trading across the map or even amongst the buildings on the eastern side of the map (trading across the F7/F8 open ground is a common mid-short range trade spot) is where you want alphas. DPS typically relies more on friends and trust in friends to melt opponents before you get punished to hard by enemy traders which is why X-Pulse the Beam laser struggle a bit more in QP compared to comp whereas alpha/trade mechs are typically don't have sustained DPS but aren't punished as well in QP like they would in comp.

For slower mechs the point of you is to dictate 1v1 engagements with pretty much all but lights which you often need help with (since turning to fight it can sometimes mean getting shot in the back by enemy traders depending on your position). Thus it's important to know the map, your range, where you can effectively dictate the engagement and what angles you can't dictate with. It's why playing an assault can be hard for a lot of players because they just don't know where the strong positions often are (rarely is it low ground killboxes), or they think they know (but are wrong).

When dealing with NASCAR, it's important to just know the common rotation of the team, ideally comment if you can stop it but often you can't. So it's important to know when it's time to stand and fight rather than continue running, especially if you know where a power position is that you can hunker down in. Sometimes it means you get sold and your entire goal is to do as much damage as you can and/or waste as much of their time as you can. Often it's a good idea to pull the enemy away from the body, stretch out their deathball as much as possible and make it cost them time to get back into the fight and it won't reflect on the scoreboard but that's often the best chance you can afford your team to win.

Ilfi, on 01 April 2025 - 02:59 PM, said:

For most weapons, you peek, dump your load and hide ASAP, but DPS weapons like RACs want to slice corners so you're only staring at your target while no one else can shoot you.

Isolating targets isn't just a DPS thing, it's an everything mechanic. Not one loadout doesn't want to isolate targets.

[Saved By The Bell]

You need to stay out of rotato in slow assault. Thats mean not engage so fast in center - team would not help you probably. They run away and leave you to die. So need to stay in good place and watch minimap.

Though potato could cry "report him, he is assisting the enemy".

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 01 April 2025 - 11:25 PM.

[Meep Meep]

If you mainly have playtime in lights and want to expand your roster try a sunspider D with the 4 uac2 loadout. Plenty of range and lots of dps along with ecm means you can play the second line or flanker with ease.

[Ken Harkin]

My go to mechs are 75ton Marauders and there are ones for all ranges. Almost all of them are 58 - 64 kph builds which means you need to be thinking position at all times.

Now if I am running something with Gauss and PPCs or the good old 3R with 4PPC since they upped the HSL. At 600 - 1,000 I'll poke, blast, retreat, then poke again. These type of builds are exposed earlier than others because they can trade at range. That does not mean stand out in the open and be a target, it means slice the pie turning a corner until you see A target, hit it, then pull back. Rinse and Repeat.

Now there are some very good builds using LAC5 and BLC / LL backed up by ERML which work great in the 500m range. These are not the first to poke out, I tend to wait a little more and be more conservative exposing myself until I have worked the range to that sweet spot. You also have MRM builds here, step out, sandblast, step back. The RAC builds with the Blight and such fit here as well. These see you giving more face time so it is critical you position for the flanking shots and not expose yourself to return fire from more than one mech. There is now sight sweeter than an enemy RAC mech with tunnel vision on its target :-) Once you start depending on LL and BLC and DPS weapons (LACs, RACs, etc) you become much more exposed and your ability to roll damage is very much reduced.

Then there is my favorite spot, the punch them in the face with an AC20 and 2SPPC backed up by ML. There are several marauders which kick *** here and you can also use Blight with a pair of UAC20, chain fired, to dump 80 points in 4 seconds with LMG and ML added for good measure. With these mechs you are absolutely NOT looking to engage early. These are all about moving for position and patience. Patience is not cowardice or hurting you team. Getting your 75 tons of face punching mech shredded at 500 - 1,000 meters while doing nothing in return is NOT going to help your team. You need to be using the minimap, watching the motion, and GET SIESMIC SENSOR!!!! Seriously, at the ranges you are working at knowing that assault is about to turn a corner or that a light is trying to flank is invaluable. Don't be a statue but stop often to see what is moving nearby and when you do stop move your upper torso to throw off the aim of the headhunters out there you may no have seen. Almost every battle ends close up. If you have 75 tons of brawling ready for that fight you should be able to tear through those elements which have closed or be a brutal flanker. If the battle has gone rough for your side already you may be the factor to turn it, I know I have on several occasions. If your side comepletely collapsed then there isn't much you can do but die gloriously but having charged into a fight out of your range early probably wouldn't have helped anyway.

With all of them though I find patience and planning is more than enough to compensate for 58-64kph speeds.

[pbiggz]

For the record OP, I tend to have the same issue.

I have never been great at positioning, so I try to stay in mechs no slower than the speed tweaked clan heavy omni speed (87kph), and find my ideal speed to be in the 90s. Any faster and my piss poor gunnery skills start to be on display, but any slower and I start having to pay for my bad positioning.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Minimize the variables you need to account for and grow your comfort level. I won't go into what everyone else has said, but if you de-risk your larger mech, you can learn the movement and positioning and go from there.

So, my rec is to run the meta Timby-S with ECM and lasvom. Why?
Timby speed tweaked is 87kph
S CT has a JJ for getting places, spreading damage, quick dodge.
Lasvom (2LPL 6ERML) is mid range and hitscan
ECM means you're invisible to half the population

Start running that and you'll get used to the pacing and positioning soon enough. Then you can adjust variables like taking away ECM, or running pinpoint weapons with lead, or no JJ.

[simon1812]

Ilfi, on 01 April 2025 - 02:59 PM, said:

MWO is a cover-based shooter. You need to use the terrain to your advantage, and catch people out in the open. Find a good spot, bunker down for a while, and rotate after you've harvested maximum value. For most weapons, you peek, dump your load and hide ASAP, but DPS weapons like RACs want to slice corners so you're only staring at your target while no one else can shoot you.

Learn the maps, learn what weapons are good for your Mech, learn how to peek a corner or a hill, and you should do fine.

and team work!!!