81 replies to this topic

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Milocinia, on 21 April 2025 - 05:16 AM, said:

Having single shot ACs in Clan mechs is pretty awesome. Bane Leviathan says hi

The IS AC20 has such a chonky BOOM compared to the Clan AC20's multi shot sound

D V Devnull, on 21 April 2025 - 04:10 AM, said:

It seems some enlightening truth is needed here. Your quote of me does not specifically say Discord and you're reading far too much into it with an overly narrow focus. I was speaking more broadly of all external discussion websites and/or client programs at the time, of which I really was not sure where to look even if you think I should have known. I avoid assumptions like "Oh, it's always on Discord" because of how that would make me look rather stupid. I was literally in the dark, per a mental sense of such.

And as for Discord access, that is outside my capabilities. I am literally cut off whether you like it or not, and not by a ban. The computer which I use is old enough that (while it can still run MWO at some reasonable level) trying to touch Discord's website does not work, regardless of any software which I use. Their site simply never loads properly for me, and never functions in any reasonable manner, which also means acquisition and/or use of their client program is effectively impossible. Unfortunately it happens that I have no way to know what prevents my using their stuff, but it means if anyone tries to say "Go get & use Discord" and push that at me, they're essentially being unconscionably thoughtless and flat rude. It's not even "put-upon" as you were regrettably stating things. You're pushing an impossibility at me, then still acting like you're right, but when you're DEAD WRONG regarding the situation.

I've got other things to think about, so quit giving me an atrocious freaking headache... I actually thoroughly HATE being right in this situation, but I am whether anyone likes it or not. As a general rule, if someone is saying clarification needs to be brought here on MWO's Official Forums for other people, they're usually never kidding. <_<

~D. V. "sick of this pushy Discord-related rude insanity... not everyone can run it, liked or not" Devnull

My older touchscreen Toshiba Satellite (dubbed Pokey Little Puppy) does not have a prayer of running MWO, can still run Discord. My smartphones run Discord. My partner's iPad runs Discord.

This is a "don't want to", "was banned" or "my access point blocks Discord" with 99.5 percent certainty, not a hardware limitation. There are definitely reasons to pan the usage of Discord, but "can't" is a dubious claim.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 21 April 2025 - 07:14 AM.

[Hawk819]

I wonder. Just what the hell are they're up to?

[D V Devnull]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 21 April 2025 - 06:07 AM, said:

My older touchscreen Toshiba Satellite (dubbed Pokey Little Puppy) does not have a prayer of running MWO, can still run Discord. My smartphones run Discord. My partner's iPad runs Discord.

This is a "don't want to", "was banned" or "my access point blocks Discord" with 99.5 percent certainty, not a hardware limitation. There are definitely reasons to pan the usage of Discord, but "can't" is a dubious claim.

This level of bristling and snapping about it... hm

So you're going to turn this into a personal attack too? The only reason I'm getting so angry is because of toxic people bent on shoving a platform at me (and therefore others) which happens to be beyond reach. So it looks like I get to lay this out for you, in order force your shutting up as well...

First, there is no way I could be banned because I was never able to access it in the first place. Second, to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing in the Access Point that I'm running through which is blocking them, but then I could never (because of corporate insanity... that kind where they hide the real techies, and think their technology is always right when it's not) get to any Tech Support capable enough to undo wrongful & unnecessary blocks anyway. Third, no choice was given to me about whether I will or won't run it, as their site is not accessible in the first place. Fourth, the monetary requirements for getting new hardware which can handle adding DIscord to an operational load is permanently beyond my reach. That throws your 99.5% completely out the window, as I'm one of the 0.5% outside group!

So that leaves me to turn this back against you and ask, what kind of hardware is inside your stuff? Not merely names, but instead the processor specs... Mine is an AMD FX-4300 system config, barely a strange form of dual-core module to work with. (No smartphones or tablets here, and can not afford them!) Last that I heard from someone else about how much load Discord puts upon Quad-Core Ryzen would tell me the computer I use is precluded. This system already gets badly bogged down from MWO running on it, so it really would not handle adding DIscord to the active load anyway.

And in case you're wondering, it happens TeamSpeak went beyond my reach several years ago, back when they made changes that pushed it beyond what this computer can handle... Sad days, those... At least maybe you'll get it's not worth being nasty any more after you read this post, and that the ideal of bringing visual proof back to MWO's Forums for other people's viewing is better for everyone...

~D. V. "tired of people who mindlessly think that Discord can be run by everyone" Devnull

[Void Angel]

D V Devnull, on 21 April 2025 - 04:10 AM, said:

And as for Discord access, that is outside my capabilities. You're pushing an impossibility at me, then still acting like you're right, but when you're DEAD WRONG regarding the situation.

Did you know that if you try to rob someone, and they produce a weapon to fight back, you cannot then injure them and claim self defense? This is because one cannot "defend" oneself in a fight one starts. In the same way, because people are not obligated to limit their discussions in these forums to things that are posted on these forums, you are not having anything "pushed" on you when people point out that you haven't been injured when they talk about outside things, even if those things are upcoming in-game releases. There's some "enlightening truth" for you. Since the established remedy for your problem of not knowing what was going on is "checking Discord," that website was what you were talking about, whether you thought long enough to realize it or not - splitting hairs about what you had in mind isn't helpful. What site would have leaks for upcoming MWO content if not the Cauldron Discord? My only assumption on that regard was that you'd figure that out as quickly as I did.

The bottom line is that it's not wrong to ask what people are talking about, or to say "my computer doesn't run Discord for some reason," when people point you there. What's obnoxious is the ranting about how you're being "pushed" into impossibilities, and that any material "NEEDS" to be put out on the forums, and "absolutely NEVER" anywhere else. That's not a reasonable demand, and it's getting tiresome.

As for not being able to run Discord, but still do MWO - that's a compatibility issue of some kind, not hardware power. The minimum hardware requirements for MWO are much higher than for Discord, as one would expect. This issue may be solvable, it may not; I'd contact Disc's tech support by email, if you haven't already.

Edited by Void Angel, 21 April 2025 - 07:59 AM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

yeah there is some weird defensiveness about this and if there is a limitation it is not on hardware end barring something like, you know, a MAC address which is splitting hairs

anyway.

wonder what will be in patch

rescales were mentioned and I actually don't know if that's s#!tposting or not

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 21 April 2025 - 09:00 AM.

[D V Devnull]

Void Angel, on 21 April 2025 - 07:57 AM, said:

<<< snip >>>

The bottom line is that it's not wrong to ask what people are talking about, or to say "my computer doesn't run Discord for some reason," when people point you there. What's obnoxious is the ranting about how you're being "pushed" into impossibilities, and that any material "NEEDS" to be put out on the forums, and "absolutely NEVER" anywhere else. That's not a reasonable demand, and it's getting tiresome.

Another over-read there, and another fallacy moment from you... Re-read all of my posts so far on this thread about the issue, and cleanly understand I avoided intending and/or saying anything about "'absolutely NEVER' anywhere else" in regard to where content was being discussed. The only thing I'm already calling for — even if angrily — is that when someone references something from an off-site discussion, then a small excerpt copy of the proof — just enough to be reasonable — makes its' way back here to MWO's Forums for others to have the requisite context from... That, and people stop trying to push & force others onto any platform which they may not be able to access... No more, no less.

Void Angel, on 21 April 2025 - 07:57 AM, said:

As for not being able to run Discord, but still do MWO - that's a compatibility issue of some kind, not hardware power. The minimum hardware requirements for MWO are much higher than for Discord, as one would expect. This issue may be solvable, it may not; I'd contact Disc's tech support by email, if you haven't already.

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 21 April 2025 - 08:52 AM, said:

yeah there is some weird defensiveness about this and if there is a limitation it is not on hardware end barring something like, you know, a MAC address which is splitting hairs

Your thinking here is invalid... I have no access to their contact information, and the internet path to them does not accept anything from me. I have no way to know what has cut me off, but it has nothing to do with me and never did. As for the Discord system requirements, what I have heard from someone else offline tells me the requisites are higher than any material you two have to read. There's no defensiveness, simply only the anger induced by people making continued bad assumptions, and then failing to listen when I'm setting the record straight. Let's flip this back on you... What kind of underlying hardware do you have? I've already made it obvious I simply never had enough.


Better yet, both of you, this chatter can no longer bring any reasonable fruit, and I'm done with it plus the associated headache I've now got. Let's all agree to disagree and walk away from it, because that feels like the best course of action at this point.


~D. V. "finds it necessary to grab a bag of chocolates someone gifted them, because this discussion is dead" Devnull

[Nadur]

I'd hazard a guess the italicized See is related to the unseen somehow

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Any time there's a tweak to a chassis it gets a science sale and I like those.

So I'm holding out completely unwarranted hope for Warhammer, Champion, Assassin and Vindi tweaks.

I will say it is really nice to see a Medium legend though. I think the Shadowcat is one of the best choices in that bracket.

Good Shadowcat players gonna do scary things in Noble I bet.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 21 April 2025 - 09:43 AM.

[Void Angel]

Dev, there's no "fallacy moments" here. You're insisting that all game announcements must absolutely be made here, and that's an unreasonable and strongly asinine position. Throwing fits about it and accusing people of sophistry isn't doing yourself any favors, either.

[Tiy0s]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 21 April 2025 - 08:52 AM, said:

yeah there is some weird defensiveness about this and if there is a limitation it is not on hardware end barring something like, you know, a MAC address which is splitting hairs

anyway.

wonder what will be in patch

rescales were mentioned and I actually don't know if that's s#!tposting or not

Rescale posts are mostly joking. I'm just one mech guy, definitely not enough time to rescale given MWO is one of the three games I work on

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

another interesting thing about Noble, minor though it may be, is that people may start hearing that chonky IS AC20 boom and then get surprised by a Shadowcat tapdance. Audio cues not lining up with expectations might cause interesting reactions

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 21 April 2025 - 11:02 AM.

[Navid A1]

D V Devnull, on 19 April 2025 - 04:38 AM, said:

Pardon me, everyone....... but...

WHAT ARE YOU ALL TALKING ABOUT?!?!?

I see literally ZERO mention of this "Shadow Cat 'Noble' Legendary" Mech anywhere that I have looked on the MWO website so far!!! If there really is something new to tell of, then it NEEDS having explicitly received somewhere that such can be discussed within the MWO Forums themselves, and absolutely NEVER some strange off-site location which people must jump through hoops in order to reach!!! Bring the proof back to these MWO Forums instead of forcing others into undesired extra things!!!

~D. V. "Where is proof to match this ShadowCat 'Noble' gossip? Show it on MWO's Forums and NOT make us wander!!!" Devnull



[Edit by the post's author for a formatting error...]

- Discord is used by Cauldron for the sole purpose of it being able to provide a real time discussion and file/image sharing platform that people can use to explain and talk much more efficiently.

- Just the ability to quickly snip, crop, and mark a screenshot to complement talking points is huge. Hell i can even ask someone to hop into a channel and I can directly stream my game to them so they see in real time what I mean and see.
Forums format is nowhere near that level of efficiency and capability for an ongoing discussion. You can't even post an image without first uploading it to an image sharing website (which you need a separate account for.)

- Regarding discord access, if you can run MWO on your current device. You can run discord. Very simple and straight forward. You don't need to make arguments about having to buy a new PC and today's financial situation.
I run discord on both my PC and my phone.

- If you can not access discord servers or webpage, it is an issue no one else can help with. If you want to join discord, follow up on it and see what the root cause is. If you have never been on discord but can't access it, check and see if a different browser helps, and if not, check with your ISP or discord support. Legit try Microsoft Edge (if you're using windows) and see if that works as a fail safe.

- If you have personal problem with using discord (I don't mean it in a bad way). Like having problems with using 2 factor authentication using a phone number. Or viewing the cauldron as elitists who should not be allowed to discuss in any other place but here in the good old forums. Or if you just want to vent about something, or just plain old stubbornness (that everyone has to some degree, including me)....
Then I'm sorry you feel that way. And hope there are enough people who cross post from discord to forums to keep you informed.

Would appreciate it if you understand that usage of discord for this is only because of ease of communication and that it is the most popular social platform at the moment for gaming.
Even hardware companies have dedicated discord servers with direct access to devs and engineers. Which again comes down to ease of communication and content sharing.



Sorry for being blunt about this. Tools and technology move forward. They have upsides and they have downsides. You either accept the downsides and use the upsides, or you don't use them and make peace with it. Both are ok and valid in my book.

Your username tells me you might be familiar with some real old school computer era. And I can understand your resentment towards all them kids and new toys. But the world moves on.

Edited by Navid A1, 21 April 2025 - 01:01 PM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Hawk819, on 21 April 2025 - 07:25 AM, said:

I wonder. Just what the hell are they're up to?

Plenty in the pipeline

Ttly, on 20 April 2025 - 09:54 PM, said:

Shadowcat? OP?
Yeah sure, if you only count the same 2-3 builds. 2PPC+ECM, or the beam laser+LMG+ECM or whatever now.
It's really only vaguely decent on any other builds/So8s you ask me and that statement of it being OP is more telling of the disinterest in playing those other builds. An excuse to not buff those meh builds at worst.

Anyway, I expected more quirks on account of the handicap of cXL250 which weighs the same as 255 but hey, it's a WIP so whatever, liable to change. And also it has MASC so more excuse to not give it that much quirks sure.

The SHC's strongest builds are not the ERPPC or beam LMG one. Frankly, the former one is 3 year old meta.

The strongest builds these days are the 3 plasma and 6 APG build (no ECM, none needed) and perhaps the lasvom/MG build (2HLL 2 ERML and max MGs, again no ECM).

[Ttly]

BlueDevilspawn, on 21 April 2025 - 01:01 PM, said:

The SHC's strongest builds are not the ERPPC or beam LMG one. Frankly, the former one is 3 year old meta.

The strongest builds these days are the 3 plasma and 6 APG build (no ECM, none needed) and perhaps the lasvom/MG build (2HLL 2 ERML and max MGs, again no ECM).

That doesn't change the "it's only somewhat OP because there's 2-3 good builds for it" part.

Edited by Ttly, 21 April 2025 - 11:03 PM.

[Void Angel]

You can't rate an omnimech against any but its most powerful builds - because it's an omni, and most variants can pull off most builds. It's not even that different from Battlemechs; you have to rate each variant against its strongest, rather than weakest, builds. Consider a certain someone's assertion in another current thread, that his XL Atlas is "trash," and so Lights need a nerf because they killed him...

Edited by Void Angel, 22 April 2025 - 10:44 PM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Ttly, on 21 April 2025 - 10:57 PM, said:

That doesn't change the "it's only somewhat OP because there's 2-3 good builds for it" part.

Void's point is correct. Mechs are balanced according to their strongest builds; any less and it would buff those. The 3 Plasma 6 APG combines minimal exposure, range, pinpoint, and dps. As a result, Shadow Cat survival was nerfed in pods that allowed for maximum gun. This obviously hurts something like the Beam/LMG build which is a stare build, but that's too bad as it's not the strongest build. Balance against the best builds. Having 2-3 good builds are really good for any mech.

[Denebios]

They just need 4 weeks more to get to Unreal Engine ;-)

[l33tworks]

Someone mentioned there was patch leaks for this month even thought its delayed. Where are they?

[Ttly]

BlueDevilspawn, on 22 April 2025 - 06:17 AM, said:

Void's point is correct. Mechs are balanced according to their strongest builds; any less and it would buff those.

What, "Executioner and Vipers are fine and doesn't need buffs because Sovereign and Scaleshot exists?" that's a pretty silly line of thought.

I mean, listen at that part alone, you don't think that's a pretty narrow way of thinking?
As if there's no way to buff the other variants/builds that wouldn't buff the already strong ones, that's what So8 (where hardpoint bloat/stacking doesn't always exist/they're on less than ideal hardpoint position) and specific quirks (or the should've lack of them in case of the Sovereign) are for.
And hey omnis are even easier to balance than bmechs on account of the locked engine and upgrades limiting their build choices even more if anything, outside of mixpod builds hardpoint stacking.

Edited by Ttly, 22 April 2025 - 09:31 PM.

[Void Angel]

Omnimechs are not easier to balance, as the history of the game amply demonstrates. Because mixing and matching hardpoints for optimal weapons loadouts have always been better than any reasonable Set-of-8 bonuses. And notice that you're shifting your argument here: you started responding to the explanation we were given that they hard-locked a bunch of stuff in order to prevent the new Legendary from buffing those other, OP builds through min-maxing pods. Now you're sliding over to "well, but overall we could balance underperforming pod combinations with Set of 8, or buffing low-hardpoint pods." Those things have been done, actually, but again, if you buff an empty Shadow Cat torso pod with great weapon quirks, that has knock-on effects for the pods with lots of hardpoints and now quirks. On the other half of it, balancing every single possible Set of 8 bonus to allow competitive builds with stock pods is a mammoth undertaking with low returns_^*, given that most players are mixing omnipods to begin with.

The point stands.

If the Executioner and Viper are only in a good place because of their Hero variants' pods/set-of-8 bonuses, that's obviously something that needs to be addressed - but cherry-picking two exceptions that prove the rule doesn't prove your case.

_*^:It will also produce an unwanted side effect of making 'mech builds more complex for newer or less analytical players, increasing the potential for bad builds and thus inadvertently punishing those players for exploring Omnimech customization - the major selling point of those chassis.