11 replies to this topic

[PumaSalad]

Ok, I have a stupid question to ask.

I've been a locust jockey for a while now, and I've managed to claw my way up to tier 3 from the depths of tier 5. I've learned a lot of locust theory, and I can reliably win most 1v1s with enemy mechs, even other lights.

One thing has always bothered me, though. My worst matches are the ones where the enemies stick together and I can't manage to trick any of them into a duel. In these matches, I usually end up engaging in minor skirmishes around their deathball until I run out of armor durability and die. My builds usually favor close-range DPS over anything else, so I don't have much of an option when my team refuses to push and the enemy assaults refuse to jeopardize themselves.

In this situation, 1v1s are impossible. Even if I can get one alone, their teammates will be able to quickly come to their rescue.

So that got me wondering... what about 1v2s?

I've read most of the locust/flea/light mech piloting guides on the forums, and the prevailing wisdom is to avoid such engagements at all costs. But I'm a crazy locust pilot.

So, my question: supposing I enter a fight against two enemy mechs at once, what are some specific maneuvers I can use to maximize the amount of time I survive (or maybe even win).

Circle strafe like mad? Figure eight? Press F to line up a shot while turning? A combination of all the above?

I don't care how difficult these maneuvers are to pull off; I still have a lot of time to practice.

Like I said above, I know this question is a little silly because this is exactly what light mechs *aren't* supposed to do. As a light, you're never supposed to pick a fair fight. In this situation, it's not only unfair-the odds are stacked against you! And this is why I want to get better at it.

[w0qj]

Dude, you don't fight 1vs2 in any mech in MWO...
(enemy can out-damage you, out-heat-capacity you, out-armour (tank) you, keep you in sight for much longer than you can, etc. etc.)

Anyways, you can watch this MWO streamer who specializes in light mechs, frequently on the Locust chassis:

HECU MechWarrior
https://www.youtube....hwarrior/videos

And no, he rarely fights toe-to-toe 1vs1, let alone 1vs2...

[epikt]

Quote

you're never supposed to pick a fair fight

I think you answered the question yourself ^^
=> if you're in a dire 1v2 situation, regroup with your mates and make it a 3v2.

If you can't rely on teammates (because you're the last one standing for example) and have to fight 1v2:
- keep cool ; if you panic, you're dead
- identify your enemies' weakness
- don't spread your damage and focus on the weakest foe ; the fastest you'll make it a 1v1, the best for you
- try to divide them (for example by legging a mech and running away, or evading with jets if one of your opponent doesn't have JJs) and make the 1v2 into two 1v1

Edited by epikt, 10 May 2025 - 06:22 PM.

[Void Angel]

PumaSalad, on 10 May 2025 - 08:00 AM, said:

One thing has always bothered me, though. My worst matches are the ones where the enemies stick together and I can't manage to trick any of them into a duel. In these matches, I usually end up engaging in minor skirmishes around their deathball until I run out of armor durability and die. My builds usually favor close-range DPS over anything else, so I don't have much of an option when my team refuses to push and the enemy assaults refuse to jeopardize themselves.

In this situation, 1v1s are impossible. Even if I can get one alone, their teammates will be able to quickly come to their rescue.

You're a Light; 1v1s are never impossible. The only variable is how long you can be in a 1v1 - and with an enemy team that stays together and supports each other, the answer is, "not long." But however many seconds "not long" is, it's still not "zero," and that's where you live. If your team isn't pulling their share of the enemy's attention, it's probably because the other team has achieved fire superiority (that's kind of the definition of what "fire superiority" is.)

So you have a dilemma - your team is intimidated by the enemy's volume of fire (maybe with good reason,) so you can't do your job because the enemy has tons of spare time to react to your harassment. The solution is paradoxical, and risky - make them use that spare time. Don't give them a good shot at you, but keep on pecking at their flanks. Blast them with your machine guns or lasers, but don't give them enough time to zero in on where you are. You're not trying to inflict damage here; you're trying to draw their attention so that your teammates feel comfortable enough exposing themselves to overcome suppression and start fighting back.

Don't worry about effective ranges, inflicting serious damage, or getting in your full laser burn. If they're starting to turn around, you should already be starting to book it to another position. Don't set a pattern, and don't be afraid to run back to your team - or entirely through them to work the opposite flank. Above all, be aware of where their Assaults are pointing, and where their Lights are looking (for you,) and you'll be able to annoy the crap out of them. The goal is to project combat presence by pulling their attention away from your suppressed teammates.

It's risky, and not just to your 'mech. Sometimes, the enemy team will have too many of their own Lights, and hunt you down; sometimes, your team will never overcome the enemy's fires, and die in a puddle of shame. Sometimes, you'll end up taking so much chip damage doing this that you're not able to be aggressive in larger fights, so you lose PSR even when your teammates win. But that's ok; the goal is to win as a team, and if you keep on playing as a teammate, your victories will come, and PSR will take care of itself.

Edited by Void Angel, 11 May 2025 - 12:16 AM.

[w0qj]

There was a video from Baradul (think it was somewhere back in 2020 to 2022), where he was a Heavy mech, charged into a known enemy's overwatch position on Rubellite Oasis, and there were three (3) enemy mechs--two Heavy and one Assault. (Even Baradul was surprised that there were three enemies there, even as Baradul managed to surprise this group of foes).

Baradul killed the two Heavy mechs at very close range, but by then Baradul's armor was almost gone, facing the lone Annihilator(!).

Baradul himself said there's only one thing left that he can do... and he performed a head shot on the Annihilator with his intact lasers.

It was quite a fight!

======================
But hey, these MWO streamers can make gauss headshots on speeding Light mechs look easy, and perhaps can sell you snake oil too!
They can make anything in MWO look easy

But for most of us...

Edited by w0qj, 11 May 2025 - 07:04 AM.

[Void Angel]

I had a match playing Destiny 2 years back, when the Gambit mode was new. If you've never played, Gambit is a competitive monster-killing contest - with a portal that opens every so often and allows an enemy to pop over to your battlefield and try to kill your team to set you back.

I was playing the Space Wizard (as opposed to Space Paladin and Space Rogue) healing spec, and for this one match, I was unstoppable. The same enemy invaded again and again; I killed him with my guns, I killed him with melee - I killed him with the animation that stabs a glowing fire-sword into the ground to set up a healing field. I didn't even know I could do that at the time! If I recorded my matches, it would have looked awesome on Youtube, I'm sure - but that was just one match where everything was coming together.

Youtubers don't show you all the matches they play, and they shouldn't, unless the video specifically requires it ("We're playing this build to see how it goes today.") They spend a lot of time working on those videos, editing, etc, and they want to show you neat things. So you're generally not going to see the bad matches, the ones where things go sideways; you're not going to see the boring parts of the matches where nothing much is happening. They're going to show you the highlight reels, and that's the right play - if you wanted to see raw match footage, you could just go watch the stream. People who are watching on Youtube are spending limited time to do it, and a good streamer will understand that and respect their time through editing.

Don't get me wrong; I've played with and against Baradul, Sean Lang, etc. They're very good, but they're not superhuman - don't expect most Youtube videos to reflect their average performance (if you want to see raw footage, sign up for the stream.)

[PumaSalad]

Void Angel, on 11 May 2025 - 12:09 AM, said:

You're a Light; 1v1s are never impossible. The only variable is how long you can be in a 1v1 - and with an enemy team that stays together and supports each other, the answer is, "not long." But however many seconds "not long" is, it's still not "zero," and that's where you live.

I think this is the core of it all.
I've got to start thinking more mobile and not get bogged down in a prolonged duel. I guess, even if I get driven off in five seconds, I can always resume a duel later, once my pursuers have left. My problem (and probably the problem of a lot of beginning light players) is getting impatient or trying to overextend myself.

Thanks for the advice, all. Especially Void Angel.

It's funny-most of you replied with variations on "turn it into a 1v1," which seems entirely accurate.

Gonna go shoot some assaults now

[Tesunie]

I will say, though I agree with all the comments about "don't fight 1v2", there are tricks you can use to make it more viable if caught in such a position. One trick I can think of is cross fire. Try to get times imposed between the two mechs, so:
1. They can't shoot the same spot together, but opposite sides of your mech.
2. They have an increased chance of missed shots hitting each other.
3. They might not shoot to prevent accidental team damage.

It isn't perfect, but it can help if you are trapped in such a situation. Very risky and not recommended as an average tactic to do, but doable in moments of desperation.

[epikt]

Tesunie, on 12 May 2025 - 07:00 AM, said:

One trick I can think of is cross fire. Try to get times imposed between the two mechs

I must disagree.
If you're in a crossfire it's much harder to dodge or evade, it greatly limits your movements and situation awareness.
On the opposite, I'd say try to keep all your enemies on the same side, as much as possible blocking one's line of sight with the closest mech.

Edited by epikt, 12 May 2025 - 10:40 AM.

[Tesunie]

epikt, on 12 May 2025 - 10:39 AM, said:

I must disagree.
If you're in a crossfire it's much harder to dodge or evade, it greatly limits your movements and situation awareness.
On the opposite, I'd say try to keep all your enemies on the same side, as much as possible blocking one's line of sight with the closest mech.

The idea is more so to try and get them to hit each other, making your job easier. Not as an engagement strategy, but more so "Oops, this became a 1v2 sooner than expected" or escape is not an option. Getting enemy mechs in line with each other also qualifies for this, as they may shoot tracking you, and then cross over an ally in the middle of shooting.

Recall though, it is still not a recommended strategy, but more acts of desperation. If you can't get out fast enough, try to get them to do your job for you instead is more so the concept.

[Void Angel]

Tesunie, on 12 May 2025 - 10:51 AM, said:

The idea is more so to try and get them to hit each other, making your job easier. Not as an engagement strategy, but more so "Oops, this became a 1v2 sooner than expected" or escape is not an option. Getting enemy mechs in line with each other also qualifies for this, as they may shoot tracking you, and then cross over an ally in the middle of shooting.

Recall though, it is still not a recommended strategy, but more acts of desperation. If you can't get out fast enough, try to get them to do your job for you instead is more so the concept.

You're forgetting that you're about two feet tall to most of them - if they miss you, they're hitting the ground. Since any damage from heavier chassis has the potential to seriously injure or cripple your battlemech, staying around to take more of it just isn't a good tactic. With a fast Light, escape is always an option; even if you're being hounded by other Lights, there's still the possibility that you can reach your team's protection intact - and if you can't, the longer you take your pursuers out of the fight, the better.

It can be advantageous to run between enemy 'mechs, but escape from overwhelming opposition should always be your goal unless you are legged.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 12 May 2025 - 10:13 PM, said:

You're forgetting that you're about two feet tall to most of them - if they miss you, they're hitting the ground. Since any damage from heavier chassis has the potential to seriously injure or cripple your battlemech, staying around to take more of it just isn't a good tactic. With a fast Light, escape is always an option; even if you're being hounded by other Lights, there's still the possibility that you can reach your team's protection intact - and if you can't, the longer you take your pursuers out of the fight, the better.

It can be advantageous to run between enemy 'mechs, but escape from overwhelming opposition should always be your goal unless you are legged.

I've seen this with the face hugging an assault tactic. People trying to help the assault shoot them up.

As stated, not a suggested primary tactic, more of a "something to consider" "not even secondary" tactic. If you are trapped, let your enemies damage each other trying to get to you.

Honestly, it's more viable in lower PSR tiers most likely than higher, but some higher PSR players have no trigger control (despite their perceived greatness) and will shoot allies trying to get that kill/damage.

The typical goals of a light are reconnaissance, distraction, harassment, disruption, and destruction. (Not in any particular order.)