42 replies to this topic

[nanashi0110]

GreyNovember, on 10 June 2025 - 04:33 PM, said:

You want a Long Tom.

Except your scenario only works when everyone is a similar size, runs quickly, and has access to verticality very easily. You cannot have "Junkrat" in a game where at any given time, 80% of the population wants to play "Orisa".

Hit Stealth mechs with a PPC and they will go away.

Run a stealth mech if you don't believe me. The minute someone CAN hit you, you lose a large part of your investment.

A PPC with homing capability is desired...
An upgraded version of SSRM with ECM CANCEL effect for PPC's and hard lock-on that can lock on even with stealth and ECM? I'd like to see something with the functionality...

Actually, what is a good idea for a curved fire weapon?
I think it would be quite a fresh play since I don't exist in this game and I can create many variations from its behavior and ammunition...

[KursedVixen]

i think Clan should ge their RAcs... they are oddly the one clan weapon that are larger in slottage than their IS counterpart.

nanashi0110, on 10 June 2025 - 05:26 PM, said:

A PPC with homing capability is desired...
An upgraded version of SSRM with ECM CANCEL effect for PPC's and hard lock-on that can lock on even with stealth and ECM? I'd like to see something with the functionality...

Actually, what is a good idea for a curved fire weapon?
I think it would be quite a fresh play since I don't exist in this game and I can create many variations from its behavior and ammunition...

If PGi could do ammo switching or, hear me out just give us seperate Atm models ex. ATM(HE) ATM(ER) we could have iATMs with magpulse warheads that lock on.

[LordNothing]

BlueDevilspawn, on 10 June 2025 - 05:02 PM, said:

Chiming in again to say that there’s no way to aim an arching shot in MWO atm, no mechanic. We explored it when the Bullshark was first released re: a Thumper.

is it specifically aiming? or is it arcing the shot? i always assumed the latter could be done with a low velocity ballistic with fudged gravity (based on tags in the xml). aoe is actually the thing i have doubts about since no weapons have real aoe other than strikes.

as for aiming i always figured it was more a spam weapon. pretty much firing blind where you think the enemy is and when you get a hit focus in that location. think battleship. this kind of also emphasizes its use as an area denial weapon.

mwll had an interesting system for its long tom where it would draw the path on the hud an put a crosshair on the minimap to indicate impact location. but thats code in that you have to integrate the trajectory. you might even be able to fudge it with a precomputed float curve with elevation on one axis and range on the other, and then output the range of impact (this is what military artillery teams use or at least used to before computers). it would make balance difficult as any change to velocity or gravity would require the curve be recomputed. with ui elements drawn on the hud seemingly from primatives, eg the masc gauge, i always figured there is at least some scripting that is approachable.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 June 2025 - 05:20 AM.

[Hawk819]

KursedVixen, on 11 June 2025 - 02:32 AM, said:

i think Clan should ge their RAcs... they are oddly the one clan weapon that are larger in slottage than their IS counterpart.

If PGi could do ammo switching or, hear me out just give us seperate Atm models ex. ATM(HE) ATM(ER) we could have iATMs with magpulse warheads that lock on.

The same should be said for ER Pulse. After all, and I know MW4 was a stand alone game, they were featured in all three games: Mercs, Black Knight, and Vengeance. Sides, they're no more different than X-Pulse and the flavor would be dotted laser blast than straight. Hell, Improved Heavy Lasers would be a nice addition. Just write the code to allow for them to cause damage when destroyed.

[BlueDevilspawn]

LordNothing, on 11 June 2025 - 05:03 AM, said:

is it specifically aiming? or is it arcing the shot? i always assumed the latter could be done with a low velocity ballistic with fudged gravity (based on tags in the xml). aoe is actually the thing i have doubts about since no weapons have real aoe other than strikes.

as for aiming i always figured it was more a spam weapon. pretty much firing blind where you think the enemy is and when you get a hit focus in that location. think battleship. this kind of also emphasizes its use as an area denial weapon.

mwll had an interesting system for its long tom where it would draw the path on the hud an put a crosshair on the minimap to indicate impact location. but thats code in that you have to integrate the trajectory. you might even be able to fudge it with a precomputed float curve with elevation on one axis and range on the other, and then output the range of impact (this is what military artillery teams use or at least used to before computers). it would make balance difficult as any change to velocity or gravity would require the curve be recomputed. with ui elements drawn on the hud seemingly from primatives, eg the masc gauge, i always figured there is at least some scripting that is approachable.

There's simply no arch aim mechanic. Various games have truly arching weapons which are an integral part of for example, the Thumper. Gravity is applied uniformly so we can't simply increase it. We could increase bullet drop, but without an aim function and it would be incredibly janky to implement. There just aren't the right attributes in the particular weapon class.

As for ER pulse and ER ATM... that's handled with quirks (see examples: Nova-D, Grand Summoner-B, Howl). Simply making a longer range version of something doesn't fit the need to create a niche for each weapon to be balanced around.

[Davegt27]

"You want a Long Tom."

heck yeah lets bring back long tom's

it sure made the try hards cry it was hilarious

[KursedVixen]

Hawk819, on 11 June 2025 - 05:50 AM, said:

The same should be said for ER Pulse. After all, and I know MW4 was a stand alone game, they were featured in all three games: Mercs, Black Knight, and Vengeance. Sides, they're no more different than X-Pulse and the flavor would be dotted laser blast than straight. Hell, Improved Heavy Lasers would be a nice addition. Just write the code to allow for them to cause damage when destroyed.

well funny you say X-pulse because currently in game x-pulse are super fast cycling pulse lasers... X-pulse was the inner sphere's version of trying to copy clan pulse laser range.... Er pulse was the clans trying to make Extended range pulse lasers even beyond their already exteneded range pulse lasers.

https://www.sarna.ne...l_X-Pulse_Laser

https://www.sarna.ne...all_Pulse_Laser

BlueDevilspawn, on 11 June 2025 - 07:27 AM, said:

There's simply no arch aim mechanic. Various games have truly arching weapons which are an integral part of for example, the Thumper. Gravity is applied uniformly so we can't simply increase it. We could increase bullet drop, but without an aim function and it would be incredibly janky to implement. There just aren't the right attributes in the particular weapon class.

As for ER pulse and ER ATM... that's handled with quirks (see examples: Nova-D, Grand Summoner-B, Howl). Simply making a longer range version of something doesn't fit the need to create a niche for each weapon to be balanced around.

yet we don't have true HE Atms that are able to work within 0 meters Atms are useless within 120 meters but at the same time Thunderbolts work within 120 meters at reduced damage.

Edited by KursedVixen, 11 June 2025 - 08:21 AM.

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 10 June 2025 - 02:56 PM, said:

Lore doesn't honestly have interesting equipment. Bloodhound/Angel ECM/Nova CEWS don't really add anything to the game that is really necessary. Reflective/Reactive armor are rock/paper/scissors level equipment (if you expect dakka, run reactive, otherwise run reflective) and hardened just feels unnecessary given we have quirks to make mechs tankier. Blue shield would be very similar to AMS in that it creates a really bad situation with PPCs that seems really unnecessary.

If they were going to look for interesting equipment, honestly they need to think outside of lore because quite frankly lore has stuff very specific to the design space of a TT strategy game not a PvP FPS where people control only one unit.

ECM and active probes had a greater effect in double-blind rules (Tactical Handbook, I think?) but with the game universe's tech base advancing, later versions of a lot of systems were just better gear that worked toward defining the capabilities of the two tech bases at whatever time the sourcebook covered (they were literally dated by the in-game timeline, you'll recall.) Thus, it's simply not feasible to assign each one its own, balanced niche in MWO. Heck, it's been hard enough to juggle Clantech against the Inner Sphere.

The prospect of specialty armors in MWO is shudder-inducing, though. It sounds fun! Until you think about it and realize that you're literally chasing a sub-meta and trying to guess which weapon systems are going to be ascendent on a minute-to-minute basis... The horror is real.

[LordNothing]

BlueDevilspawn, on 11 June 2025 - 07:27 AM, said:

There's simply no arch aim mechanic. Various games have truly arching weapons which are an integral part of for example, the Thumper. Gravity is applied uniformly so we can't simply increase it. We could increase bullet drop, but without an aim function and it would be incredibly janky to implement. There just aren't the right attributes in the particular weapon class.

As for ER pulse and ER ATM... that's handled with quirks (see examples: Nova-D, Grand Summoner-B, Howl). Simply making a longer range version of something doesn't fit the need to create a niche for each weapon to be balanced around.

its disturbing how much stuff in this game is hardcoded considering this game's age.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Void Angel, on 11 June 2025 - 08:25 AM, said:

The prospect of specialty armors in MWO is shudder-inducing, though. It sounds fun! Until you think about it and realize that you're literally chasing a sub-meta and trying to guess which weapon systems are going to be ascendent on a minute-to-minute basis... The horror is real.

Yeah, it's not great. Reflective was pretty much mandatory back in MW4 because of how dominant lasers were so it really didn't make building anymore interesting, I mean you might have separate variants with the different armors but it wasn't exactly interesting. Hardened and modular make less sense given we have quirks which don't even cost you anything.

Harjel is definitely the more interesting prospect as would some sort of shield/force field/whatever you want to call it but not sure if those would even be good for the game.

LordNothing, on 11 June 2025 - 08:47 AM, said:

its disturbing how much stuff in this game is hardcoded considering this game's age.

Not really, especially given this was their first Mechwarrior game, coding a mechanic that is generic rather than tied to specific archetypes makes sense if you don't have experience with the different mechanics you could possibly to adopt into a universal design. It can be hard to skip directly into a DRY model if you have zero experience with the WET first.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 11 June 2025 - 10:52 AM.

[Armored Yokai]

BlueDevilspawn, on 11 June 2025 - 07:27 AM, said:

There's simply no arch aim mechanic. Various games have truly arching weapons which are an integral part of for example, the Thumper. Gravity is applied uniformly so we can't simply increase it. We could increase bullet drop, but without an aim function and it would be incredibly janky to implement. There just aren't the right attributes in the particular weapon class.

MW4 had this feature and it functioned more like a direct fire weapon but it also had increased bullet drop to work around that issue and it was not until the Mektek development team that you could actually aim on the map where the projectile was expected to land. Could you do something similar?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Armored Yokai, on 11 June 2025 - 11:54 AM, said:

MW4 had this feature and it functioned more like a direct fire weapon but it also had increased bullet drop to work around that issue and it was not until the Mektek development team that you could actually aim on the map where the projectile was expected to land.

Where was this Mektek feature? Because even after MP3 this was NEVER part of MW4. Keeping in mind, that that is a vastly different game code-wise so trying to make a comparison is already showing your lack of knowledge. The max range of your artillery was directly related to the torso pitch of your mech with I think the most limited of torso pitch allowing for only 900m of max range.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Armored Yokai, on 11 June 2025 - 11:54 AM, said:

MW4 had this feature and it functioned more like a direct fire weapon but it also had increased bullet drop to work around that issue and it was not until the Mektek development team that you could actually aim on the map where the projectile was expected to land. Could you do something similar?

The point is that one should be able to place the arching shot and know where it's going to go, not just lob it with a massive AOE that negates any cover whatsoever. While bullet drop was a thing, it was more emblematic of the pathetic velo of some weapon performance in the past. Curving an AC20 over the center of Mining Collective was a meme. It's not really a mechanic that would make for a usable arty piece.

[LordNothing]

it has to be a true aoe weapon or the battleship technique wont work. id doesnt have to be a huge aoe or a big damage either (big if direct but weak otherwise).

i dont see much benefit in doing it as an arty piece but at ranges < 300m should be fine. at least the vgl should be approachable without an aim solution if not mech mortars and thumpers because of the short ranges involved. especially with uavs and good spotting. would be useful to break stalemates and attack well entrenched forces enough to get them to give up their position or force a push. i see it as mostly a counter to dull stand around do nothing gameplay.

damage wise the vgl is possibly the best experimental weapon due to the low damage (its a half ton weapon after all) so you can see if spam is a problem or not or how the community takes to being the roach from apocalypse now.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 June 2025 - 05:06 PM.

[nanashi0110]

Is the LONG TOM a curved weapon in MW?
If implemented, it would be very exciting.

In my opinion, given the nature of the game, the range of the AoE should be about two FLEAs side by side.
I also don't think that something like a dedicated reticle is necessary. At least when I used those weapons in other games (OW2,TF2) they were not needed.

[Armored Yokai]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 11 June 2025 - 01:57 PM, said:

Where was this Mektek feature? Because even after MP3 this was NEVER part of MW4. Keeping in mind, that that is a vastly different game code-wise so trying to make a comparison is already showing your lack of knowledge. The max range of your artillery was directly related to the torso pitch of your mech with I think the most limited of torso pitch allowing for only 900m of max range.

It was a feature which was accessible through instant action or multiplayer iirc, interestingly enough it didn't apply to Campaign. I'll have to reach out to VAMMAN or Sake and ask more about it because you could see a meter display on the top of your map and the range capped to 1000m or so. Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries uses GAMEOS which in turn uses VC++ while Cryengine 3 uses C++. While yes, MW4 and MWO are vastly different engines (VC++ custom engine vs CryEngine 3), the comparison isn't invalid, because it's about mechanics, not porting code line-for-line. Matter of fact MWLL actually has the Long Tom Feature implemented with the actual on map reticle.

EDIT
Found it

Edited by Armored Yokai, 11 June 2025 - 08:10 PM.

[LordNothing]

a minimap icon would work but again it doesnt have the resolution for a non-aoe mechanic to hit accurately. best system i can think of is to just draw a line indicator on the pitch gauge that indicates the optimal elevation to hit the targeted mech. though it requires targeting to get this info. which requires a spotter or uav like any other idf weapon (which is probibly a good thing). once you have a target you can line up on it as if you were doing direct fire and pitch up until the elevation line coincides with your crosshair. in lieu of a target the elevation may still be drawn if the weapon is equipped and give you the elevation to hit the point at the crosshair. never underestimate the player's ability to nail an arcing trajectory (source quake speedruns).

Edited by LordNothing, 12 June 2025 - 07:40 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Armored Yokai, on 11 June 2025 - 08:07 PM, said:

While yes, MW4 and MWO are vastly different engines (VC++ custom engine vs CryEngine 3), the comparison isn't invalid, because it's about mechanics, not porting code line-for-line.

MWO doesn't have any engineering support, new mechanics aren't happening, full stop. Not sure why people bother arguing about this. Even if they did, assuming it would be easy just because both come down to C++ like that even matters in the discussion is wild.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 12 June 2025 - 04:13 PM.

[LordNothing]

cryengine also has a lua scripting engine. idk why you cant use that to draw a couple lines on the hud.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Referencing the HUD doesn't help your rationale. The HUD is infamously FLASH and is actual genuine lostech,.