32 replies to this topic

[AcesHigh]

So I've noticed it's almost impossible to maintain, let alone *gain* PSR in a lot of light mecha these days.

I can have 6-12 assists, 2 killing blows, ten times my tonnage in personal damage, tag assists, lance in formation, WIN, etc etc, and *Still* see PSR down arrow at the end of a match.

Get in controlpoint battle? PSR is *punished* for capping too!

Maybe I'm just farming the wrong kind of match score, but this seems rather stupid 12 years later.

Thoughts?

[martian]

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 05:23 AM, said:

So I've noticed it's almost impossible to maintain, let alone *gain* PSR in a lot of light mecha these days.

Greetings!

You can watch this fan video to understand the basic principle behind your PSR changes:


Imagine it as a list of 24 players, sorted according to their Match Score (the players of the victorious team get a small bonus) after the game - from the player with the highest Match Score descending to the player with the lowest Match Score. The upper 12 'Mechs get the green arrow, the lower half of the list gets the red arrow. The higher you are among the "green" 'Mechs, the higher is your PSR raise. The same is true for the "red" Mechs - in the negative sense, of course. The lower you are in that imaginary list, the greater your PSR fall.

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 05:23 AM, said:

I can have 6-12 assists, 2 killing blows, ten times my tonnage in personal damage, tag assists, lance in formation, WIN, etc etc, and *Still* see PSR down arrow at the end of a match.

Okay.

So the next time, when you will feel that you lost your PSR unfairly, post both the Mission Summary Team Table and the Mission Summary Player Table, please.

The basic idea behind PSR is that your performace is compared with the performance of other (both friendly and enemy) players. Without seeing those post-mission tables, there is not much to discuss.

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 05:23 AM, said:

Get in controlpoint battle? PSR is *punished* for capping too!

I tell you what I do: I do not circle around the map to cap every single base without fighting, while my team is dying. I just keep one eye on the number of the bases we control and if needed, I go to cap one base to ensure that we will not lose on caps. That is all.

Other than that, I spend the rest of the game fighting enemy 'Mechs.

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 05:23 AM, said:

Maybe I'm just farming the wrong kind of match score, but this seems rather stupid 12 years later.

Thoughts?

The damage dished out is the single greatest part of your Match Score. When playing a light 'Mech, the secret is to hit enemy 'Mechs as much as you can and as often as you can.

Of course, you must engage in all secondary activities that you can (scouting, capping, flanking, etc.).

[BlueDevilspawn]

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 05:23 AM, said:

So I've noticed it's almost impossible to maintain, let alone *gain* PSR in a lot of light mecha these days.

I can have 6-12 assists, 2 killing blows, ten times my tonnage in personal damage, tag assists, lance in formation, WIN, etc etc, and *Still* see PSR down arrow at the end of a match.

Get in controlpoint battle? PSR is *punished* for capping too!

Maybe I'm just farming the wrong kind of match score, but this seems rather stupid 12 years later.

Thoughts?

Depending on when you stopped playing, you may remember the PSR bar as an experience bar where people who played enough could get to Tier 1. This is no longer the case as it's moreso based on fighting skill. Frankly, if you've ever played Event Queue where there is NO matchmaker, this is a good thing.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

...why do you want to go up in PSR? My alt is in T2 (again) and I hate it because I STILL don't feel like I have a good handle on certain maps and modes, plus there are some that don't have guides at all (that I know of). It's more of a pain to fill out skill nodes.

PSR+ is definitely not a reward. If your play puts you in a lower tier that might be where you will be happiest.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Since there is no salvage in MWO, think of the best possible battle (match) outcome as taking out 12 enemy pilots, melting all their armor, and destroying all their weapons and equipment, and causing 12 engines to go critical while also completing the match objective (your full cap, timer, kill count - enemies timer or cap amount doesn't matter). You do get some extra credit for using a tag, flanking, formation, etc.

Your up arrow, down arrow or equal sign is relative to the performance of the others in the match now. Sadly, that means that "allies" that block your teammates, walk into red smoke, and walk into ally RAC fire do not suffer a PSR penalty and actually get a boost relatively, since another player's match score was penalized. "Allies" can also pick up some points by hiding near lance mates..."

Wins get a match score bonus and losses a penalty, but what you do in a match matters more. Which is probably good for overall match making, at least when there are enough people and no soup groups, so the matchmaker can work.

[CFC Conky]

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 05:23 AM, said:

...

I can have 6-12 assists, 2 killing blows, ten times my tonnage in personal damage, tag assists, lance in formation, WIN, etc etc, and *Still* see PSR down arrow at the end of a match.

...

Doing ten times your tonnage is all well and good, but in a 20-ton mech that's only 200 total damage which only contributes about 100 points to your match score which combined with the other stuff you do, might not be enough for an 'up' arrow.

In my case, I usually have to do at least 400 damage, combined with my other activities, to ensure a green arrow, and sometimes the rise in PSR is very small and often still results in a red arrow.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 25 July 2025 - 08:57 AM.

[AcesHigh]

I'm going to note that yall seem to be missing a larger picture here. I'll try to paint it.

I'm *not* asking for advice on how to farm PSR. I'm pointing out that playing a burst heavy/assult, even POORLY, pushes that number. I'm pointing out that 12 years later, the post-match system is still broken for lights doing *ANYTHING* except be burst-damage on 10 heatsinks. I want a discussion on that and *changes* that would incentivise rather than punish for mode.

• Match queue punishes timer based on "wrong tonnage."
  
• Most light mecha by their nature don't get 400+ damage within 45 seconds. Exceptions of course for the 7+ hardpoint dps machines or ultra-quirked rapid fires.
  
• combined these punish players who play lower tonnage, AND try to force players into the role by punishing those who don't wanna with wait time.

Control game mode: PSR rewarded for *IGNORING* the win condition is a *PROBLEM* and the *PROBLEM* has persisted for *12+ years.* If you *HAVE* to disengage for control points or lose, as @martian pointed out, get match score penalized for not doing DPS. The game mode is as much of a meme as Escort was.

I'm not saying baby and bathwater like the old escort mode is needed, I'm wondering HTF no one (RE council) has addressed it. I'm also pointing out the absolute irony that "no skill" weaponry with sandblaster damage (still) seems to be the primary driver of a "skill" rating.

It's also interesting to note that being a ****er and "working from the arms inward" instead of going for a quick kill will net green arrows more often than not. Sure it's skill if done intentionally, but it's kinda...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

PSR isn't perfect, but anything that tries to provide value for actions rather than results is going to find themselves a bit short. What actions are more valuable? Ultimately a lot of actions are context dependent.

While PSR is definitely influenced by damage, lights/meds afaik are pretty easy to gain other bonuses and it's not impossible to raise to tier 1 just with light mechs so if you are arguing about that, then sorry but sounds like you still need to improve.

So while you are right that PSR is definitely biased towards damage, the better solution would be to simplify things and focus on results. Good players will naturally win more so WLR is ultimately a better MMR than PSR. That said, damage is still important when teams are incredibly fat on average and the main point of the game given it's no-respawn is to fight other stompy robots, not stand in squares. So yes, all game modes are skirmish with "release" valves to avoid playing "chase the spider" for 10 minutes as he inevitably dies having only done at most 50 damage in the past 10 minutes. That and to help combat camping some stupid corner of the map which was hilariously common in MW4 where there was no release valve objective.

By "council" I assume you mean the Cauldron but AFAIK they do not have control over that, and the willingness from PGI to do anything around PSR this late in the game is pretty unlikely.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 25 July 2025 - 10:38 AM.

[CFC Conky]

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 10:19 AM, said:

I'm going to note that yall seem to be missing a larger picture here. I'll try to paint it.

...

Nope, not missing the big picture at all, I'm afraid you're asking for something that's just not going to happen.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 25 July 2025 - 10:56 AM.

[AcesHigh]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 25 July 2025 - 10:37 AM, said:

While PSR is definitely influenced by damage, lights/meds afaik are pretty easy to gain other bonuses and it's not impossible to raise to tier 1 just with light mechs so if you are arguing about that, then sorry but sounds like you still need to improve.

See I *have* lights that go green on loss consistently (and bigger green on win) My point is the *MAJORITY* of light chassis are *GIMPED* by the current bake. HTF they havn't made damage-per-ton more important than raw damage yet boggles my mind.

There's two logical fallacies in this part alone. You're "questioning the person instead of the argument", AND you're you're making the fallacy of "one specific subset of the larger set is fine."

[BlueDevilspawn]

Since your argument is shifting to the damage dealing potential of light mechs, I'd ask to see your top 3 lights you run to deal damage in QP. What builds are you running?

Frankly, pushing 1k damage with multiple kills in a properly played light mech is no big deal. PIR-1, WLF-C, good ole 6MPL Purifier, etc....

[AcesHigh]

BlueDevilspawn, on 25 July 2025 - 11:20 AM, said:

Since your argument is shifting to the damage dealing potential of light mechs, I'd ask to see your top 3 lights you run to deal damage in QP. What builds are you running?

Frankly, pushing 1k damage with multiple kills in a properly played light mech is no big deal. PIR-1, WLF-C, good ole 6MPL Purifier, etc....

Same "small subset (with lots of hardpoints) is fine" fallacy as above. My MLX-G is consistent green (most likely) because: damage and components crits are easy on it with the large hardpoints and burst/sustain DPS pontential. Same reasons you pulled out piranha. Now try to make the same argument with 80% of the other light chassies.

That's still missing the overall point, which is "an entire class of mecha is mostly punishing pilots in general for daring to use them (and everyone else for refusing to be gimped)" as well as the sub point of "playing to win is less important than skirmish"

[Grus]

This game still alive? Wow.

[nanashi0110]

Hmm...
Maybe it's because the system doesn't evaluate you within your team, but rather evaluates you as a whole game.

Also, I think it's because the system places a lot of importance on dealing damage, getting last hits, and destroying components.
I think this is because the impact of damage is judged to be greater than the impact of supportive actions, and so is scored accordingly.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

AcesHigh, on 25 July 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

There's two logical fallacies in this part alone. You're "questioning the person instead of the argument"

I'm questioning the person because MWO is setup so that people can easily shoot themselves in the foot. People regularly post in these forums wondering why they can't rank up when they are running some NARC/AMS setup with only 3 ML for firepower or something like that. There's a limit to the potency of scouting in QP (because PUGs rarely know what to do with that info) and not every opponent is dumb enough to have half their team chase a squirrel (which doesn't require much firepower). Ultimately the name of the game is killing the enemy team, it always has been and as long as no respawn is the main way to play, always should be.

Lights SHOULD have firepower, but there should be a cost to it because speed is still valuable. Being able to reposition away from other lights while able to pick fights is still powerful. Now if you want to argue that not all lights are good at that, that's a different story. There's definitely some weak lights or ones that are pretty much for a specific scenario (capbot spider 5V for example) but this is technically true of all weight classes, not just lights. Let me put it this way, if they were capable of the same numbers as assaults with similar amount of effort, what point would there be in playing assaults?

So that's really the question, is your problem about PSR (because lights can PSR up just fine) or that lights are unbalanced as a whole (which has a better argument for).

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 25 July 2025 - 05:25 PM.

[pbiggz]

Again it has to be repeated. PSR is not a reward. PSR is not a reward. PSR is not a reward. It is an internal matchmaking metric used to match you against suitable opponents, and it serves no other purpose. Ideally it shouldn't even be visible, and if it wasn't, I highly doubt you'd ever have made this thread.

[Ttly]

PSR should just be replaced with power rating on your build+chassis.

[pbiggz]

Ttly, on 25 July 2025 - 06:45 PM, said:

PSR should just be replaced with power rating on your build+chassis.

PSR works pretty well, its just people shouldn't be able to see it. Frankly you shouldn't even see your tier. The more specific information people have about it, the worse it is.

Edited by pbiggz, 25 July 2025 - 07:15 PM.

[CFC Conky]

pbiggz, on 25 July 2025 - 07:15 PM, said:

PSR works pretty well, its just people shouldn't be able to see it. Frankly you shouldn't even see your tier. The more specific information people have about it, the worse it is.

Indeed.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Ttly]

pbiggz, on 25 July 2025 - 07:15 PM, said:

PSR works pretty well, its just people shouldn't be able to see it. Frankly you shouldn't even see your tier. The more specific information people have about it, the worse it is.

I'm still more convinced on build+chassis power rating idea rather than PSR.
If you want to bring some sweaty cheeseboat build on a meta variant, you should be matched with others that does it.

PSR meanwhile just screws over people that wants to try any other build/chassis once they hit tier 1 with being pitted against exactly people that runs those (and only those) cheese builds regardless of what they're bringing.
It's like the arena event, with the heavy only matches except for an entire PSR Tier.
You either bring an IS Orion, Crael, Nova Cat, or you're near guaranteed to lose.

Because hey, at the end of the day there's only so much you can do with "skill" when running anything other than "the best" chassis/builds.

Now of course PSR MM range leniency does allow T1 players to get T3 matches still, so it's not as extreme as I might put it on the previous paragraph but it is a thought for when the playerbase dwindles.

Edited by Ttly, 25 July 2025 - 08:32 PM.