56 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

l33tworks, on 04 August 2025 - 07:49 PM, said:

The raven 3L was good because back then we didn't have host state rewind, had a lot of hitreg issues, and the mech had ecm so it could run around with impunity without being targeted by Lrms or streaks. Same with mechs like the comando 2d and spider with ecm.

Well if you outnumbered the enemy, you could use streaks and they homed in like LRMs but with zero spread, so they hit CT a helluva lot which is why streak ravens were broke for a bit, sort of like the current thunderbolts, but with much better turning so they didn't easily miss.

That said, not to nitpick too much, but hit reg was "fine" back then just like it was in MW4. What people mistake for "poor" hit reg was them just not accounting for latency when shooting targets when you're dealing with server authoritative hit calculations. tl;dr hit reg wasn't problematic so much so that people don't understand that what you see on the screen is not representative of where things are according to the server. HSR is a system that tries to account for that latency (within reason that is) much in the same way that Valve's subtick system in CS2 does.



As for the Dire, if you are trying to brawl with it, you're already doing a disservice to the Whale. While the dakka Whale still isn't bad, it is definitely outclassed by the 100 ton battlemechs, but it's bread and butter which is gauss vomit, it's still probably one of the coolest platforms for it. Whether that be pure blue laser/gauss spam or more something along the lines of the OG builds like a Prime with 2 Gauss/2 ERLL/6 ERML. That build iirc gets almost a 20% heat quirk, if anything that build is too heat efficient and could benefit more from range/cooldown quirks over heat quirks. Regardless it's still serviceable, just not one of the most efficient/effective assaults like it is in TT.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 04 August 2025 - 09:53 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 04 August 2025 - 09:48 PM, said:

That said, not to nitpick too much, but hit reg was "fine" back then just like it was in MW4. What people mistake for "poor" hit reg was them just not accounting for latency when shooting targets when you're dealing with server authoritative hit calculations.

Wait, do people NOT understand this?

I am genuinely asking. If this was like, baby's first network game in the early 2000s, I'd get it, but even then learning to shoot with lag was standard.

[Void Angel]

GreyNovember, on 05 August 2025 - 08:59 AM, said:

Wait, do people NOT understand this?

I am genuinely asking. If this was like, baby's first network game in the early 2000s, I'd get it, but even then learning to shoot with lag was standard.

I find that a lot of players don't really ask how the game works. Case in point was my Grounding Totem in World of Warcraft. What the tooltip said was that the totem would absorb a single spell directed at someone within its range - but that's not what the ability did. What it actually did was cast a spell that spawned a totem; that totem then cast a spell which applied the buff to everyone within range. That buff then redirected any spell cast to the Grounding Totem - but the buff was not cancelled until the totem was actually affected by a spell. Most players never figured all that out; the totem does what it says, right? Well, no; and the difference meant that the opening of the Achimonde fight at Mount Hyjal (the tank has to pull multiple enemies that all throw a powerful nuke when they aggro) much easier - and that my Shaman often found himself running back and forth saying "baaah," next to his perfectly-fine Grounding Totem.

In modern games, HSR is standard - players expect to hit what they aim at. But even then, they are still surprised when the host state actually... rewinds, and they're seemingly retroactively killed in the open when on their screen, they made it behind a wall.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

GreyNovember, on 05 August 2025 - 08:59 AM, said:

Wait, do people NOT understand this?

I am genuinely asking. If this was like, baby's first network game in the early 2000s, I'd get it, but even then learning to shoot with lag was standard.

Yes, back then and currently people do not understand this just like how they don't understand how HSR works in that it can make it appear like you took damage after getting into cover, when in reality you took damage while out of cover there was just latency involved.

[Ted Wayz]

Gold mechs in general fell off a cliff.

Have a Gold Dire and Crow and both are not great. Both as a mech and because Gold is now being liberally used for new mechs.

I think it has been long enough and no one would mind if they got some love this year. Bring them up to date so at least they are competitive in the current Meta. Currently just bring them out for nostalgia. But it hurts my team when I do.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The stormcrow prime is actually competitive in the current meta, while the Whale is meta adjacent. The Whale is not in need of any serious love, at most it just needs some very modest touching up. Curious how you would know how good they are though given didn't you mention you just recently came back to the game? Expecting the same old builds to be relevant is not going to end well in any game that receives regular updates

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 10 August 2025 - 12:55 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 10 August 2025 - 12:54 PM, said:

The stormcrow prime is actually competitive in the current meta, while the Whale is meta adjacent. The Whale is not in need of any serious love, at most it just needs some very modest touching up. Curious how you would know how good they are though given didn't you mention you just recently came back to the game? Expecting the same old builds to be relevant is not going to end well in any game that receives regular updates

Competitive? Is that why you never see them LOL. Have played well over 100 matches recently and have played the prime (twice) more than I have seen others play them (once).

I love it when people look up people's play time so they can add "leverage" to their comments. Unfortunately for you my comment was not based on "old experience". Have played over a hundred mechs since I have come back and the Crow is meh. IS has the laser meta, not Clans. There are many more mechs that are more mobile and capable of getting up time on their laser builds. Crow is just lacking.

[Void Angel]

I see them all the time. Maybe when you're higher tier.

[1453 R]

Ted Wayz, on 10 August 2025 - 05:33 PM, said:

Competitive? Is that why you never see them LOL. Have played well over 100 matches recently and have played the prime (twice) more than I have seen others play them (once).

I love it when people look up people's play time so they can add "leverage" to their comments. Unfortunately for you my comment was not based on "old experience". Have played over a hundred mechs since I have come back and the Crow is meh. IS has the laser meta, not Clans. There are many more mechs that are more mobile and capable of getting up time on their laser builds. Crow is just lacking.

"IS has the laser meta"?

I don't track The Meta much beyond just playing the game. Don't hang out in Grim or the Cauldron Discord, tracking the subtle shifts at the top end. I mostly just play, and even I know that statement is higher than Keith Richards. Clan laser vomit is and always has been murderous. It used to be the dominant way to play. It plays very differently than Sphere laservomit, that is true. Sphere laservomit is more about steady, consistent burns. Clan laservomit is about dumping ninety points of "Go Away" into someone in a single burn, then peeling off into cover to allow the tortured souls from Hell your heat sinks have just become to sweat out the Mongolian horde of heat you just generated. Binary lasers are such a big deal precisely because they more closely mimic what Clan laservomit has historically done and allow IS 'Mechs to adopt some of the same builds and tactics.

I guarantee you that nobody is feeling bad for Clan laservomit, and that the Stormcrow is mostly perfectly fine.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ted Wayz, on 10 August 2025 - 05:33 PM, said:

IS has the laser meta, not Clans

Tell me you don't know the meta without telling me.

3 Beams/2 ERML, 3 ERLL/2 ERML, 3 HLL/2 ERML are all really good on the Stormcrow. As for Clans vs IS, kind of a weird argument to make but on average Clan mediums have an advantage due to HLL being so light compared to the BLC which is costly for IS mediums. IS laser vomit struggles without hefty quirks like the BJ-1X/TBT-5J compared to the Stormcrow/Shadow Cat/BLanner and even things like the Viper/Hunchback IIC which are similar to the Whale and off-meta (used for niche situations).

IS laser vomit gets more competitive in heavies/assaults definitely but it is not "definitive" like some might think

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 11 August 2025 - 04:27 PM.

[Bassault]

It's just in your head. Dire wolf in my experience is still a very reliable mech. It's only weaknesses being CT and slow, but it's armor, quirks, decent convergence and huge weapon arrays still make it solid and reliable. It's better than the bane and it's better than the rhino at some niches (like gauss vomit or uac erppc builds). If you want I can give you some good builds.

[w0qj]

Yes! Please, please, please!

Bassault, on 13 August 2025 - 08:25 AM, said:

It's just in your head. Dire wolf in my experience is still a very reliable mech. It's only weaknesses being CT and slow, but it's armor, quirks, decent convergence and huge weapon arrays still make it solid and reliable. It's better than the bane and it's better than the rhino at some niches (like gauss vomit or uac erppc builds). If you want I can give you some good builds.

[Bassault]

w0qj, on 13 August 2025 - 09:05 AM, said:

Yes! Please, please, please!

https://mwo.nav-alph...04b8_DWF-PRIMEI
Super good vomit build. Can work anywhere. If there's enemies far away you can still use the gauss. As you get closer the lasers do work for a blistering alphastrike. King of trading but if you dont land your shots in close range youll suffer. If you do, your dps disadvantage doesnt matter when theyre dead in 2 alphas + another gauss shot. Played correctly you can hold off multiple people while surgically picking then apart, and often one-shotting lights that try to **** with you. 10/10 rating.

https://mwo.nav-alph...=63ba63a0_DWF-B
Lpl spammer. Very good for sitting back at 600-700 and farming. Suffers against lights in close range. At a distance you'll shave their legs off easily. 7/10 build. Not as meta anymore but still solid.

https://mwo.nav-alph...=dac2f22a_DWF-A
Another high performer. Very good for doing anything. Erppc for long range, good dps, and high alpha. Only downside is you need to lead the shot but the peek and convergence profile is above average due to torso only. Good at trading, good at dps, flexible range, has no real weakness. Compared to the gaussvom build it will do better vs assaults, worse vs lights and meds, and be better at close range. 9/10 build.

PS: https://mwo.nav-alph...=b75b8bd5_DWF-W
If you want to snipe in quickplay, which I think is mostly a mistake nowadays. Too much nascar and too many powerful fast mechs make sniping extremely risky or you sit back and do nothing while your team wins/dies outside of your sightline. Regardless, this works pretty well for a sniper and can easily push things around in medium range if pressed. The right-stack gauss isn't worth it anymore in the current meta, it's better to have symmetry so your mech doesn't have a weak spot. Heat is a problem, but due to the gauss cooldown being reduced, you rely much more on the gauss rather than the er-larges compared to the previous generation of sniping. The massive TC reflects this change. The peek profile is nice, tight, and close together.

Edited by Bassault, 21 August 2025 - 11:52 AM.

[pbiggz]

Direwolf suffers from "this isn't mechwarrior 4 and assaults aren't automatically unkillable gunboat tank gods" syndrome.

The atlas got quirks for durability (as it should) and is a battlemech, so you can upsize the engine to compensate for weight. Its thus easier to play an atlas, even if you're not particularly good at assaults.


The Direwolf on the other hand is slow, and has the most guns of any mech in the game. Its a feast or famine mech in the truest sense. Either you know how to use it properly, or, you post about how bad it is. There is no in between.

[Bassault]

pbiggz, on 14 August 2025 - 11:53 AM, said:

Direwolf suffers from "this isn't mechwarrior 4 and assaults aren't automatically unkillable gunboat tank gods" syndrome.

The atlas got quirks for durability (as it should) and is a battlemech, so you can upsize the engine to compensate for weight. Its thus easier to play an atlas, even if you're not particularly good at assaults.


The Direwolf on the other hand is slow, and has the most guns of any mech in the game. Its a feast or famine mech in the truest sense. Either you know how to use it properly, or, you post about how bad it is. There is no in between.

Eh, not really. You're describing the bane. The dire wolf is very flexible. It has good armor quirks and the JJ can be used to spread a lot of damage. It's firepower is great but less than a bane. Its heatsinking is also very good for its weight, I think only shs boats can compete. It's more guns than an Annihilator but not as tanky. Less guns than a bane but much more practical. A little more durable than the rhino but not as good with long range and speedy builds. A lot less durable than the atlas but much better for ranged loadouts. The bane is much more of a feast or famine assault mech because it's slow, huge, terribly fragile but has like 35 dps on most builds so you can either instantly mess someone up or get halved in two peeks and lose everything.

Edited by Bassault, 14 August 2025 - 12:30 PM.

[pbiggz]

No dispute there.

People expecting assaults to be god mechs like they were in mw4 is true though.

Edited by pbiggz, 14 August 2025 - 12:40 PM.

[kalashnikity]

I think the main problem is the Dire Wolf gets called out and focus fired really fast, as it tends to carry far too much firepower to ignore even momentarily. If you do anything less than perfect position in that slow thing, Direwolf feels like a death trap.

And the geometry is really bad for protecting your CT. Kind of like the Mad Cat, it's got that CT that sticks out so when you twist they can still easily hit your CT. And the side torsos are super easy to isolate too, so it's almost a no win situation, only mech with worse geometry (for isolating components) might be the Stone Rhino.

*I need to start practicing lifting my arms up when twisting, it's been shown to help block the CT in certain mechs, e.g. King Crab. Years of playing and it's only recently I've started to twist by instinct to spread income fire between volleys, so lifting arms during the twist is the next step (on appropriate mechs).

Maybe one day I can solo play my way to T1, but not yet. Baby steps...

ETA at least in the stone rhino you can protect a bad side torso, in the direwolf they can still hit your side torso unless you twist absolutely perfectly, due to the square shape.