216 replies to this topic

[Omniphage]

Yeah no matter what you say 8v8 is worse. I'll be peacing out for awhile.

[Thorqemada]

Well, i applaud PGI for trying to evaluate 8vs8 as for me it is the superior mode.
But i wont make me play the game again bcs everything else i dislike stays the same.

General Balancing
Weapon Slot amassement
Weight race
LRM hate
Map and Mode voting
Every mode is skirmish mentality
Groups in Solo Q
to name some of them.



Also a comment to the "but i want to play with my friends" argument:
That one is a false friend bcs at no point in its history was MWO preventing players to play with their friends.
That mode was called Group Q and targeted especially at people who wanted to group up with their friends and face likeminded opponents in a fair match.

But that Group Q died and that makes any claim in that regard illegitimate!

Obviously many people in Group Q did not want to play with friends they wanted to play with an advantage and as the Group Q did not gave them that advantage they gave up playing it!

Now using a false friend argument to force groups on solo players, who were the only bucket of players that kept their Q alive, is all about abusing an advantage instead of playing/competing on an even playfield.

As it was the group players that abandoned group play they have simply no right at all to claim any obligation by solo players to play into there demands!

So STFU!

Edited by Thorqemada, 11 August 2025 - 07:23 PM.

[CwStrife]

Thorqemada, on 11 August 2025 - 07:22 PM, said:

Well, i applaud PGI for trying to evaluate 8vs8 as for me it is the superior mode.
But i wont make me play the game again bcs everything else i dislike stays the same.

General Balancing
Weapon Slot amassement
Weight race
LRM hate
Map and Mode voting
Every mode is skirmish mentality
Groups in Solo Q
to name some of them.



Also a comment to the "but i want to play with my friends" argument:
That one is a false friend bcs at no point in its history was MWO preventing players to play with their friends.
That mode was called Group Q and targeted especially at people who wanted to group up with their friends and face likeminded opponents in a fair match.

But that Group Q died and that makes any claim in that regard illegitimate!

Obviously many people in Group Q did not want to play with friends they wanted to play with an advantage and as the Group Q did not gave them that advantage they gave up playing it!

Now using a false friend argument to force groups on solo players, who were the only bucket of players that kept their Q alive, is all about abusing an advantage instead of playing/competing on an even playfield.

As it was the group players that abandoned group play they have simply no right at all to claim any obligation by solo players to play into there demands!

So STFU!

You haven't played in like 5-6 years and your making comments complaining about a game you won't play? Bruh you serious right now? Sounds like you like to play an LRM boat and you get picked apart easily or something.

[Ballistic Panicmode]

Thorqemada, on 11 August 2025 - 07:22 PM, said:

Well, i applaud PGI for trying to evaluate 8vs8 as for me it is the superior mode.
But i wont make me play the game again bcs everything else i dislike stays the same.

General Balancing
Weapon Slot amassement
Weight race
LRM hate
Map and Mode voting
Every mode is skirmish mentality
Groups in Solo Q
to name some of them.



Also a comment to the "but i want to play with my friends" argument:
That one is a false friend bcs at no point in its history was MWO preventing players to play with their friends.
That mode was called Group Q and targeted especially at people who wanted to group up with their friends and face likeminded opponents in a fair match.

But that Group Q died and that makes any claim in that regard illegitimate!

Obviously many people in Group Q did not want to play with friends they wanted to play with an advantage and as the Group Q did not gave them that advantage they gave up playing it!

Now using a false friend argument to force groups on solo players, who were the only bucket of players that kept their Q alive, is all about abusing an advantage instead of playing/competing on an even playfield.

As it was the group players that abandoned group play they have simply no right at all to claim any obligation by solo players to play into there demands!

So STFU!

I have to wonder if bringing back group queue as an 8 v 8 mode might encourage absent players to return to 12 v 12 quick play.

obviously the game engine would allow for this, since 8 v 8 hasn't affected faction play.

[UMPA Viper]

Thorqemada


LOL , sounds like you dont have any friends to play with to me. Poor argument. I see a bunch of groups playing in QP. So the ability to play with your friends is very much alive. Yours is a opinion , and thats all it is.

My opinion , 8v8 is horrendous and should never be attempted again by PGI.

Edited by UMPA Viper, Yesterday, 04:31 AM.

[Haman Karn]

8v8 not very fun, as soon as one side gets 3 kills its over, games last 2 minutes and seem much more lopsided.

[CwStrife]

UMPA Viper, on 12 August 2025 - 04:28 AM, said:

Thorqemada


LOL , sounds like you dont have any friends to play with to me. Poor argument. I see a bunch of groups playing in QP. So the ability to play with your friends is very much alive. Yours is a opinion , and thats all it is.

My opinion , 8v8 is horrendous and should never be attempted again by PGI.

Imagine typing in all chat in a game "anyone in a group looking for 1 more i'd like to join".... instead after 5 years comes on here to rage about a change to a game he doesn't play anymore. I think MW5 is more his thing, playing against a bot would allow him to play the playstyle/game he wants.

Haman Karn, on 12 August 2025 - 05:48 AM, said:

8v8 not very fun, as soon as one side gets 3 kills its over, games last 2 minutes and seem much more lopsided.

3 mans in lights are much much more deadly and effective now. Hard to deal with them with lesser mechs on the board.

[Tiy0s]

I've been seeing a lot of feedback on 8v8 in both discord and the forums, I'm keeping track of it all.

During the course of this event, I've been making subtle changes to the matchmaker and keeping an eye on match speeds, search times, match quality, etc. When this 8v8 is over, I'll be making a more proper post with all of my findings, thoughts, and what I think the future steps will be. This is not just a test of search times, this is me testing every aspect of the matchmaker I can(I'm not an engineer, I can only change the dials that people before me have made) to see what the most optimal setup is during the parts of the year where we see lower player activity.

The only thing that's really set in stone to stay is group and solo queues staying merged in "soup" queue. However, even the size of groups can be changed if that's what is needed.

Keep the feedback coming, I'm reading it all. Perhaps this test is was a little longer than it should have been and future tests will be much shorter in time frame. But I'm trying to learn everything I can for future implementations of whatever I need to do to keep MWO running as well as it can.

[smokefield]

thanks for the insights. from my perspective the test was not exaggerated long. it actually captured better learnings compared with a too short one, even if it did created some frustration.

if possible i would suggest to test many other scenarios and see the best outcome, even ones that seem outrageous at 1st

[Sapporo Joe]

Does anyone get the sense they dropped 8v8 at the same time as the railgun reveal to distract from the laughably incoherent dedication to pin point damage this game has developed?

[minnowzzz]

Tiy0s, on 12 August 2025 - 08:49 AM, said:

Perhaps this test is was a little longer than it should have been and future tests will be much shorter in time frame.

you do have the power to change the test if you so wish. you could just make a announcement for example you are changing the test end date to the end of the 14th.

I'm not going to say you should do that or that this was a mistake. even thou I don't like 8v8 I understand you are doing test to see what works or does not work and how to use that info in the future.

Either way, have a good one.

Edited by minnowzzz, Yesterday, 11:04 AM.

[Micromagos]

While 8v8 isn't terrible, I'm definately not enjoying it any where near as much as 12v12 now that I've had some time to let it sink in. Honestly the longer search times weren't really an issue for me compared to this.

Edited by Micromagos, Yesterday, 11:48 AM.

[Strelok7]

141 hours and 45 minutes of MWO 8vs8 abstinence left. Google Doodle Corn game for the win !!!

[Strelok7]

Tiy0s, on 12 August 2025 - 08:49 AM, said:

future implementations of whatever I need to do to keep MWO running as well as it can.

Thanks for all the MWO work you guys do!

_

Someone brought up an interesting point earlier; I don't think I saw the follow up.
Idea was: WHEN low player volume THEN enact all Tiers playing together, BUT the kicker was that the teams are lopsided. Tier 1 and 2 - lets say 8 or 10 players VS all other Tiers - 12 players.

If hard to implement, maybe stick couple of fake placeholder players or bots on Tier 1 and 2 side. Servers will use 12 vs 12, but really, it will be like having a couple of AFKers on their end.

Result.

• 1) Reduction of wait times (for those who have that issue).
  
• 2) More challenge for Tier 1&2.
  
• 3) More chances for Tiers 3,4,5.

Edited by Strelok7, Yesterday, 02:09 PM.

[Lollerisms]

Strelok7, on 12 August 2025 - 01:34 PM, said:

Thanks for all the MWO work you guys do!

_

Someone brought up an interesting point earlier; I don't think I saw the follow up.
Idea was: WHEN low player volume THEN enact all Tiers playing together, BUT the kicker was that the teams are lopsided. Tier 1 and 2 - lets say 8 or 10 players VS all other Tiers - 12 players.

If hard to implement, maybe stick couple of fake placeholder players or bots on Tier 1 and 2 side. Servers will use 12 vs 12, but really, it will be like having a couple of AFKers on their end.

Result.

• 1) Reduction of wait times (for those who have that issue).
  
• 2) More challenge for Tier 1&2.
  
• 3) More chances for Tiers 3,4,5.

This is going to result in hilariously imbalanced games where T1s get 12 mechs worth of target practice. *Intentionally* recreating the worst parts of Event Queue is a really, really bad idea.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Ngl... I've seen 4 Div A compies wipe a 12 man of probable T5s on the other side of a lobby. 10 vs 12 is not even close to balance, it would be a wipe. The skill gap is immense.

[Void Angel]

Tiy0s, on 12 August 2025 - 08:49 AM, said:

Keep the feedback coming, I'm reading it all.

I would have an aneurysm. Thanks for your effort.

On the subject of feedback, if you don't do the tests for long enough, you increase the effect of confounding short-term variables on your data set. There's always a period of reaction with any change, so ending a test too soon will skew your results. How soon is too soon? Man, am I glad I don't have to answer that question!

[Carl Avery]

I've enjoyed 8vs8 when I've tried it in Event Queue without any gimmocks (e.g. unlimited ammo). But I don't think it works well for public queue. Games seem even stompier than usual.

Snowball effect is 50% more pronounced. Having an ally suicide/disco/AFK at start means you start the battle missing 12.5% of your team instead of 8.3%. Yes, the flip side is that I'm less likely to pop my head up and be shot by four mechs at once, but in practice, this doesn't seem to make up for the downsides I just mentioned.

I don't even notice a reduction in the wait times. I'm sure they're there, but I don't feel them. Whether 12vs12 or 8vs8, the time between matches is so long, that I have time to go AFK to grab a snack or take a leak. Or Alt-Tab and start browsing the Internet or checking Discord channels.

Besides, any actual reduction in the wait time is probably offset by the fact that the match itself is over faster, no? More matches played per hour means more time spent loading and waiting in the lobby — which would be fine if the match times were the same. But short match times means that the ratio of playtime / (loading+lobby) has gone down.

Edited by Carl Avery, Yesterday, 04:26 PM.

[Manboobs-sama]

Tiy0s, on 12 August 2025 - 08:49 AM, said:

I've been seeing a lot of feedback on 8v8 in both discord and the forums, I'm keeping track of it all.

During the course of this event, I've been making subtle changes to the matchmaker and keeping an eye on match speeds, search times, match quality, etc. When this 8v8 is over, I'll be making a more proper post with all of my findings, thoughts, and what I think the future steps will be. This is not just a test of search times, this is me testing every aspect of the matchmaker I can(I'm not an engineer, I can only change the dials that people before me have made) to see what the most optimal setup is during the parts of the year where we see lower player activity.

Can we be enlightened on what all of these dials are? I'm sure most of them are pretty obvious, but maybe there are some dials in that delicious spaghetti code that aren't that intuitive. Having the players help with ideas requires us to know what's all possible.

Also, seeing you say the only thing you can't touch is the one most glaring problem is really disheartening. It's like trying to fix a car with flat tires by changing the alternator. The people who still play are fine with the queue times. And the people it affects most are Tiers 2 and 1, the most dedicated players, and a mere fraction of the player base.

I have been told in the past no matchmaker at all would be a disaster, but I would like to see it with my own eyes. Just 2 or 3 days in the middle of the week just to see how awful it would be. I honestly am of the mind that match quality simply can't be much worse or less consistent. Every time there's an event queue with 6 or more players on each team, I honestly don't notice a distinct drop in match quality.

[Artemus Prime]

I like the 8v8 as a solo dropper, I haven't played in a group yet. But I like that I get matches faster now.
I feel like I can have more impact in a match, and it's not the same old Zergballing as it normally is.