14 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Since it's a day ending in Y, MWO players are in a bit of an uproar over a change proposed by PGI - namely, the upcoming 8v8 Quick Play event, in which all teams will be down a lance from their normal twelve-'Mech murderblob. This has players used to the comforting presence of eleven other people to take hold of their carrying handles with nervous and wondering how they can possibly still do well without eleven other 'Mechs' worth of extra ablative armor to keep their LRM600 Bane safely away from any semblance of threat. I figured that I, being a person who greatly enjoys 8v8 and considers it a marked and categorical improvement over 12v12 in every way worth measuring, would share some ideas for how you can avoid being The Load on your team and instead improve your odds of being the Fierce 'Mech Devil that brings glorious victory to your side. In no particular order:

1.) Take Less Ammo
Most people heavily over-ammo their 'Mechs already as it is, routinely ending the match with multiple tons of unexpended munitions. As a general rule, if you don't get the "25% Ammo Remaining" warning in any match in which you are doing well, you can probably afford to reduce your ammo load a bit. But in 8v8? You can DEFINITELY afford to reduce your ammo load. There are 33% fewer 'Mechs to kill on the other team, you do not need that last ~600 damage in your magazines.

If you usually take four tons of ammo per weapon? Take three instead (or get brave and try taking only two). If you shoot for a specific total damage number in MechDB the way I do? Reduce that number by 250~300 or so. Less ammo means more weight for other things, and also a slightly lower chance of ammunition explosion. Get comfortable with taking reduced ammo and you can carry that comfort back to the normal 12v12 game. Take less Bang, and you can get more for your Buck.

2.) Trend A Little Lighter and Faster
12v12 means eleven chances for Someone Else on your team to be The Fast Guy, so you can come in with your LRM600 Bane that moves thirty klicks and safely be fat and useless in the backline. But in 8v8, there's only seven other chances, and also means that everybody is responsible for moving and taking objectives or covering flanking attempts. Conquest is always an option (or a threat I suppose, depending on if you're no fun or not), and with four fewer 'Mechs each team has fewer bodies they can spare before you have to move and cover a problem yourself rather than relying on Somebody Faster to do it.

Try going for 4/6 movers (i.e. 'Mechs that move roughly sixty to seventy klicks) rather than leaning so heavily on 3/5 movers (i.e. 'Mechs that move roughly forty to fifty klicks). Break out your Battlemasters, your Blood Asps, your Hatamoto-Chis, your Executioners - maybe even your Chargers and Gargoyles. Or go even further beyond and drop down into your favorite heavies rather than pushing assaults. The Timber Wolf is still amazing, and 'Mechs like the Grasshopper, Cataphract, Marauder and Thunderbolt can be configured to move at a good clip without sacrificing punishing hitting power. Try being Somebody Faster on your team, or at least being quick enough to cover problems. After all, four fewer enemy 'Mechs also means a lot less firepower being flung your way - you've got the breathing room to lighten the load a bit andstill survive quite well.

3.) Generalize a Little More
I'm picking on the LRM600 Bane again here, because in an 8v8 match you have significantly fewer unwilling bodyguards to hide behind in order to accomplish your fruitless lurm-flinging. Super-specialized 'Mechs such as LRM-only bombardment platforms, BSBs (Big Slow Brawlers), Narc dweebs, and other designs that rely heavily on abundant cover and/or cooperation from many teammates are going to be less effective in 8v8 than they are in 12v12 - and they're already not nearly as effective in 12v12 as you think they are.

Instead of picking a theme and going 120% In on it, consider running builds that are either more diverse, or which are more generally applicable in the first place. Rather than an LRM600 Bane, consider refitting a Blood Asp with a more reasonable number of tubes (3x LRM-15s can still hit plenty hard for most purposes) and bringing compatible secondary weaponry. Beam lasers mix pretty well with missiles - if you have to stare to maintain your ATM/LRM locks anyways, why not add Ultra TAG to the mix and discourage counterfire by blasting them with unending energy merder? Rather than a giant hundred-ton brick of AC/20s, SRMs, and small pulse lasers that's both utterly helpless beyond 300m and unable to move faster than forty klicks, try configuring with AC/10s and MRMs instead. Or leave these 'Mechs aside entirely and go to the AC/10, large laser/Binary laser, or fast MPL/SRM cruisers/strikers you already have. Now's an awesome time to revisit the more self-sufficient 'Mechs of old.

4.) Use Your Words a Little More
With four fewer players on each team, the odds of you being the only one who's seeing what you've just seen are significantly higher. If you're not comfortable with making callouts to your team over voice comms, or even just using the command wheel? Now's a great time to practice, with four fewer people to theoretically-but-not-actually judge you. Even a bad call is better than no call in nine cases out of ten, and with fewer eyes on the field and less total armor? Enemy long flanks and ambushes are both harder to spot and more effective.

Be vigilant, and share your vigilance with the team. Don't count on sharing map Doritos alone - make calls, use your voice. It is as dangerous a weapon as any autocannon, and in 8v8 your team has less fat available to ablate a successful con job from the enemy. As an aside, for the same reason: don't stint on UAVs during the event. Try reducing your artillery or airstrike loads and taking an additional UAV instead - with fewer enemies on the field those concentrated bombardment strikes are less effective, while nothing signals "DANGER!" more effectively than five red Doritos suddenly appearing out of nowhere due to a properly deployed UAV.

5.) AIM, then Fire
All too often, when spectating someone else after an unfortunate whoopsadoodle on my end, I see players flailing madly, firing their weapons as absolutely fast as they can cycle just to try and vomit out as much damage as possible. This is heartbreaking when you see that their target has an open weakness somewhere that a second's calm precision could take advantage of and turn an embarrassing gang beating into a final Blaze of Glory worth the name - or even turn a losing battle into a win.

With four fewer 'Mechs on each side of the combat, you have a lot less firepower flying at your face. With 'Mechs still tuned for 12v12 levels of durability, you can take an extra second (or even two, if you have to) in order to analyze your enemy with the handy-dandy 'R' button, determine their weaknesses, and aim for them. MWO isn't an MMO, where absolutely maximizing your global cooldown is the key to success. In MWO it's not about who shoots more, it's about who shoots better. So in this event, with reduced damage being dealt by both sides and no overwhelming firepower disparity to fall back on? Be the one who shoots better by taking a little bit of time to aim before firing. Remember, when facing a giant enemy KCG? Don't just vomit fire in the direction of its shell. Attack its weak point for massive damage.

* * *

Armed with these tips, hopefully you too will find the same joy and delight in 8v8 games as I do. It is a much tighter, leaner, and simply more enjoyable experience, if you treat it as being what it is rather than acting as if it's a 12v12 match where four people on each team disco'd before the game starts. There's a reason top-level competition is always 8v8, and even if you're not at all a competitive player yourself - this is me taking a moment to stare at my little green '4' over there - you can enjoy 8v8 for most of the same reasons it's become the competitive standard.

Fight hard, die well, and remember - Kerensky fled the Inner Sphere for your sins. Make sure he gets his money's worth.

[nanashi0110]

A very useful topic!
I'm a casual player, but I'm looking forward to 8v8 because I think it's in very good balance and it helped me.

And a question or two from me
・About Take lass Ammo.
Just like in 1v1, I completely agree with the idea of adjusting your ammo load appropriately and going into the battle with better equipment.
But even if you were to lose 1-2 tons, would you be able to fit something better in there?
I don't know of anything useful that would fit 2 tons in one slot. (Basically, you want to fill up the slots and weight as much as possible, right?

Trend: Light and fast
I think this isn't necessary if you focus on group up.
Since there are fewer people, the chances of being focused increase,
but at the same time, the maximum amount of damage you can take has also decreased, so maybe a tougher, heavier MECH would be more effective?
This is just my guess, though...

Generalize a Little More
I agree so much.it's frustrating to have LRM boats that leave the locking to their allies even in 12v12 (can't change someone else's play? Yes)
By the way, is it true that it is very good to combine missiles (perhaps LRM or ATM?) with beams?</div>
I've never done that combination and I'm very curious. I love beam lasers

Use Your Words a Little
MoreThis is so true! A PvP game once had a rough go of it when they announced that the winning percentage was about 20% different between teams using VC and those not using VC.
I'm Japanese so I don't know the detailed instructions at all, but I do know what “E4 Enemy” and “B OpenCT” are.
If I put out an Enemy spot and help at the same time, it shows that I want people to focus on that spot, and if I put out a UAV and help, I will try to rush over there and make it rain.
Communication is the most powerful tool anyone can use to increase a team's odds of winning.
(Of course, the opposite is true as well. Be a gentleman...)

・AIM, then Fire
Sorry, this is me. I don't know what people overseas call it, so it will be the term used in Japan..
There is a traditional scoring technique called the&quot;のの字撃ち&quot; / &quot;&quot;の&quot; tattoo Shot&quot; &quot;farming shot&quot;
I believe that many people do this especially when they need to earn high scores during events: tracing the shape of “の” with a laser to maximize damage.
In other words... . not everyone plays in QP with the same mindset as in COMP, and I don't see the point in enlightening them too much.

Edited by nanashi0110, 04 August 2025 - 03:52 PM.

[1453 R]

nanashi0110, on 04 August 2025 - 03:48 PM, said:

A very useful topic!
I'm a casual player, but I'm looking forward to 8v8 because I think it's in very good balance and it helped me.

And a question or two from me
・About Take lass Ammo.
Just like in 1v1, I completely agree with the idea of adjusting your ammo load appropriately and going into the battle with better equipment.
But even if you were to lose 1-2 tons, would you be able to fit something better in there?
I don't know of anything useful that would fit 2 tons in one slot. (Basically, you want to fill up the slots and weight as much as possible, right?

Heh, the idea was more general tips than specific build advice. Some builds are locked in, sure, but in general people should be able to swap out a bit of ammo for something else. Either upgrade the weapons doing the shooting, upgrade the engine, add an extra heat sink or two - whatever else you can do with the extra tonnage. Most 'Mechs can be reconfigured to take advantage of the freed-up weight somehow. if the one you're playing cannot be, ah well - you'll just have scads of munitions to throw around.

nanashi0110, on 04 August 2025 - 03:48 PM, said:

Trend: Light and fast
I think this isn't necessary if you focus on group up.
Since there are fewer people, the chances of being focused increase,
but at the same time, the maximum amount of damage you can take has also decreased, so maybe a tougher, heavier MECH would be more effective?
This is just my guess, though...

That's the thing. There's less people to group up with, so if your team needs to split for whichever reason - whether that be playing Conquest, sending people back to base to stop a cap attempt in Assault responding to an enemy flank attempt, or whatever else? Then you've got fewer people to hide amongst, as well as having fewer people to do the responding in the first place. You have to be ready to do the responding yourself, or risk there being no one at all on your team who can. And even in a full 8v8 encounter, the 33% reduction in firepower will be telling. There's fewer 'Mechs to shoot at you, which means more ability to maneuver without getting caught out and instagibbed. People will be taking advantage of this, so being more mobile than a Dire Whale will do you some good.

nanashi0110, on 04 August 2025 - 03:48 PM, said:

Generalize a Little More
I agree so much.it's frustrating to have LRM boats that leave the locking to their allies even in 12v12 (can't change someone else's play? Yes)
By the way, is it true that it is very good to combine missiles (perhaps LRM or ATM?) with beams?</div>
I've never done that combination and I'm very curious. I love beam lasers

I've had some ripping games combining beam lasers with ATMs, though it is a pretty weight-intensive combo for the Clans. It can also lead to you getting cored out and wrecked if the other guy has friends or enough fire discipline and DPS to counterfire you properly. But both weapon systems require the same dangerous tactic - staring unflinchingly at your enemy - in order to reward either strong DPS (beam lasers) or exceptional burst damage (ATMs). The Cobra Cat Nova Cat Hero 'Mech has good quirks and hardpoints for the combination, with good hillpeeker beam laser mounts in the chest. I've run it on Rancor before, though that was with mixed success. Honestly think the Blood Asp is too big for it, people are more prone to shoot Basps so you get cored out too quickly. I'd try it on a heavy 'Mech first. You can do it on the Clan Archer, which is frankly one of the most sickeningly good Quickplay heavy 'Mechs in the game, though you have to expose more of the 'Mech than usual to use the beam lasers. Which, in turn, ruin that 'Mech's nigh invisibility. But it can be done, and you'd easily get the drop on most foes.

nanashi0110, on 04 August 2025 - 03:48 PM, said:

Use Your Words a Little
MoreThis is so true! A PvP game once had a rough go of it when they announced that the winning percentage was about 20% different between teams using VC and those not using VC.
I'm Japanese so I don't know the detailed instructions at all, but I do know what “E4 Enemy” and “B OpenCT” are.
If I put out an Enemy spot and help at the same time, it shows that I want people to focus on that spot, and if I put out a UAV and help, I will try to rush over there and make it rain.
Communication is the most powerful tool anyone can use to increase a team's odds of winning.
(Of course, the opposite is true as well. Be a gentleman...)

Good on ya. And frankly, despite what some people think, this game's voice comms are remarkably clean of nonsense for an online PvP game. Not entirely clean of it, I've had to mute some folks who lost their comms privileges, but overall most people in MWO are either focused on using voice comms for their intended purpose, or just shooting the ***** while they play.

nanashi0110, on 04 August 2025 - 03:48 PM, said:

・AIM, then Fire
Sorry, this is me. I don't know what people overseas call it, so it will be the term used in Japan..
There is a traditional scoring technique called the&quot;のの字撃ち&quot; / &quot;&quot;の&quot; tattoo Shot&quot; &quot;farming shot&quot;
I believe that many people do this especially when they need to earn high scores during events: tracing the shape of “の” with a laser to maximize damage.
In other words... . not everyone plays in QP with the same mindset as in COMP, and I don't see the point in enlightening them too much.

Heh. It's not about maximizing damage dealt or anything like that. Removing components from enemy 'Mechs degrades their capabilities and makes them less able to kill you back. If someone with an LFE or CXL is riding the top of their heat bar, shaving off a shoulder could force them into shutdown or Heat Seppuku as their heat capacity suddenly drops. Destroying an enemy's weapons means that even if you die, the next player on your team has a much easier time of dealing with that enemy than if they'd escaped with weak, opened-up hit locations that still have all their guns in them.

Way back when in the Solaris Heavy Singles tournament thing they ran, I was one of the top scorers in the event despite piloting a (supposedly) weak 'Mech - the Hellfire HLF-C - with a weak configuration - four ASRM-6s, two heavy small lasers, and two flamers. I defeated Craels with that thing more often than the inverse, shortly after Crael's release when it was a nigh-unkillable duel monster, due to prioritizing component destruction over CT blowout. If they want to offer me a weak shoulder, I don't hold my shot waiting for a clean CT hit - I take the shoulder, cut off half their 'Mech, and continue fighting. I defeated Orions both IIC and otherwise, I defeated Craels, I defeated Summoners and Timber Wolves and Cauldron-Borns and everything else because my Hellfire had a decisive mobility advantage over every single foe I faced (remember! Trend a little lighter and faster!) and I was willing to wound before I killed.

Take what the enemy is willing to give you. Harvest it, then beat them over the head with their own ripped-off arm. Never be above blowing off a weakened component and grabbing hold of the advantage that gives you.

[KursedVixen]

events do not use matchmaker from what I understand which can make gameplay harder.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Was just thinking about ammo. Less of a concern for my energy boats but that will give me more engine/sinking/armor.

Don't know about generalization. I prefer "this does a thing. It does it well if I do it right, as long as the thing is not inherently dumb." Then again I also do not play a lot of LRM/ATM/Streak/Tbolt. /shrug. Will see if that works.

[1453 R]

KursedVixen, on 04 August 2025 - 05:10 PM, said:

events do not use matchmaker from what I understand which can make gameplay harder.

This isn't Event Queue. The Quickplay queue will be switched to 8v8 for a ten-day period between August 8th to 18th. So yes, it will use the matchmaking system.

[LordNothing]

dont really care. i figured for years something would have to give in lieu of a healthy population. and frankly the match size is possibly the least offensive of those. you could give up useful match making if you really want the salt to flow. pgi's bread and butter are at the middle of the bell curve, so mm needs to keep those people happy, feeding them to elites will make them leave.

gameplay wise i still dont care. 12v12 was over ambitious for a niche game and the wait times show it. 8v8 never bothered me at all.

[Jon Gotham]

Glad you are happy, I've almost always not enjoyed 8v8. Last time round I quickly came the same build meta you have-and really hated it. Some builds you just can't take-even if you enjoy them if you want to win.
1-2 bad players on your team? Oh dear.....

[BlueDevilspawn]

Event Queue does not have a matchmaker at all (ditto FP).

QP has a matchmaker, and as PGI have said, the 2 parameters changing for the test are lobby size (8v8) and group sizes (4s and 3s). Otherwise, it'll still work just like before (e.g., tier matching with 2 tier spread).

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

BlueDevilspawn, on 05 August 2025 - 08:26 AM, said:

Event Queue does not have a matchmaker at all (ditto FP).

QP has a matchmaker, and as PGI have said, the 2 parameters changing for the test are lobby size (8v8) and group sizes (4s and 3s). Otherwise, it'll still work just like before (e.g., tier matching with 2 tier spread).

What recommendations would you personally add or make re: adapting to smaller match sizes, or do you largely concur with the OP?

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, Yesterday, 01:32 PM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 05 August 2025 - 01:32 PM, said:

What recommendations would you personally add or make re: adapting to smaller match sizes, or do you largely concur with the OP?

You can adjust builds if you want to, e.g., ammo down for more armor and speed.
Dakka and brawl will imo be stronger due to there being fewer mechs on the field. High heat mechs will need to manage their distance carefully or get run down with fewer allies to focus fire with.

[1453 R]

Kinda concurrent to that point, snipers in general are going to be at a much heavier disadvantage. Eight-player teams simply can't output the same pressure as a twelve-player team, which means everybody has more freedom to move. The sniper at the back is absolutely one hundred percent reliant on the rest of the team fronting for them and putting up enough pressure to constrain the enemy's movement. With four fewer 'Mechs per team, the average Puglandian "sniper" will have fewer unwilling bodyguards at the same time that it's significantly easier to slip past the main brawl and get to them.

I am quite looking forward to the tears of frustration from the idiotic Stealth Gauss Thanatos players. That build is giant robot ****** - uncomfortable, embarrassing, and always ruining an otherwise good time.

[nanashi0110]

1453 R, on 05 August 2025 - 04:48 PM, said:

Kinda concurrent to that point, snipers in general are going to be at a much heavier disadvantage. Eight-player teams simply can't output the same pressure as a twelve-player team, which means everybody has more freedom to move. The sniper at the back is absolutely one hundred percent reliant on the rest of the team fronting for them and putting up enough pressure to constrain the enemy's movement. With four fewer 'Mechs per team, the average Puglandian "sniper" will have fewer unwilling bodyguards at the same time that it's significantly easier to slip past the main brawl and get to them.

I am quite looking forward to the tears of frustration from the idiotic Stealth Gauss Thanatos players. That build is giant robot ****** - uncomfortable, embarrassing, and always ruining an otherwise good time.

Due to the event duration, it won't come to fruition, but the next legend would add a new sniper to IS/CLAN.

Once this LEGEND comes, it looks like the environment will evolve so that snipers will be an option even with a small number of players (or it would be strange if they weren't).

That's right, QP will have a legend. It feels like the environment is quite... different.

[l33tworks]

I cant wait, matches will be more nuanced, team cohesion will be higher and hitreg better + search times will be lower. Oh and less ammo.

[GreyNovember]

l33tworks, on 05 August 2025 - 10:52 PM, said:

I cant wait, matches will be more nuanced, team cohesion will be higher.

I feel like you're putting a LOT of weight where it really shouldn't.