22 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Just an idea to post, and see what other people say about it as a debate on solving the lengthy MM times people are experiencing, and other problems I've heard about with, of particular note, Assault Class mechs taking over 50% of the queue space, slowing MM times down as there are too many of one class of mech being used.

The solution might already be in the game, and would ease MM issues. Add the use of Drop Decks into all matches, with mixed tech (you can mix and match clan or IS mechs into a public queue drop deck). This can have several benefits that I can think of:

• There are no longer a queue restriction based upon mech class, following the typical formula of 3/3/3/3 of each class of mech in a given team. Now, it's just a drop deck with a max and min tonnage to adhere to.
  
• The MM could focus more on matching via PSR rank over expanding due to class matching when forming a match. This eases the MM parameters, making it so matches should be easier to form.
  
• There are no longer matches where one team has more of a class of mech over the other, it's just a matter of what mechs people select at a given time.
  
• The drop decks would provide respawns, meaning players are active in a match till the end in most cases (I would imagine).
  
• New players will have the chance to make mistakes, as they will have four mechs to use.
  
• Map choices (hot/cold or long/short range) would have less impact for players. You could have 2 mechs set up to run cool for hot maps, and 2 to run hot for cold maps, or whatever.
  
• Players would have to play to the actual game modes presented, rather than every match basically always falling into Team Death Matches.

The drawbacks I can see are:

• New players don't start off owning 4 mechs. So they will be trapped longer playing with trial mechs every match.
  
• Some people don't seem to like playing any other game mode other than TDM.
  
• Matches will likely last till time runs out in many cases, so match times will likely increase, unless match time caps are reduced from 15 mins to 10 or something.
  
• Spawn Camping could become an issue if a match is on a smaller map or the enemy knows where the spawns are and abuses that knowledge/the match is so one sided.

This could make it so matches could be 8v8, or remain at 12v12, as the MM is already being eased by not having to worry about your mech's weight class when building a match. If it stream lines the system enough, it might even be able to have tighter PRS groups (with it expanding as needed if the MM takes to long to find a match). So rather than T3 pilots being tossed in against T1 or T5 pilots, they might be able to be matched with only T3 pilots, and occasionally expand into T2 or T4 if the MM is taking longer, to a max of current groupings (+/- up to 2 tiers).

Thoughts? Opinions? I think this could work overall for ease of MM and make matches more interesting overall.

[GreyNovember]

Tesunie, on 11 August 2025 - 05:50 PM, said:

• The drop decks would provide respawns, meaning players are active in a match till the end in most cases (I would imagine).
  
• Players would have to play to the actual game modes presented, rather than every match basically always falling into Team Death Matches.

Focusing just on these two.

When a game is a foregone conclusion, it's typically done so pretty brutally. The ones where it's down to the wire, 1v1 with the last mechs remaining, is rare.

Introducing respawns in standard modes, the most likely result will be:

• Slow trickling of each mech as they respawn, instead of coming out all at once
  
• People using mechs they don't know how to use due to unfamiliarity, creating a more rapid slide into being disadvantaged

Which leads to the inevitable loss of the initial 12-3 fight being dragged out over a much longer period.

Which would lead to people disconnecting and preemptively "surrendering", due to lack of a surrender option and failing morale. ( People already lambast their OWN team on all chat, as if to let everyone in the match know it was not THEIR FAULT, but the TEAM'S FAULT. Imagine this happening for longer.)

[LordNothing]

decks in qp would be awesome. but then you couldnt call it quick play anymore as the game time would have to be expanded (frankly its hard to call it qp now given how long it takes to find a match). besides i think its easier to use eq for that. play one of the eq decked modes if you want to know how it goes.

i think we would be better off with open arenas, where you pick a deck, drop into an active game, and can re-spawn indefinitely until you get bored. though im not sure the game is quite designed for that. i know it would have to be team deathmatch because i dont think you can do ffa with the available infrastructure. frankly im not even sure you can do unlimited respawn. this eliminates most of the wait times except a respawn timer and map changes.

of course then your matches are chaos full of people doing whatever.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 August 2025 - 07:20 PM.

[1453 R]

The matchmaker currently doesn't care about tonnage at all. The percentages in queue are a relic of a system that is no longer turned on and active.

Drop decks in Quick Play would likely have made for a better game, back in the day. These days, you'll never convince the taters to stop dropping in anything but hundred-ton bloatboat jerks with far too many guns and not enough literally anything else. Nobody wants to be a MechWarrior, they're all too busy being damage farmers.

[Tesunie]

GreyNovember, on 11 August 2025 - 06:40 PM, said:

Focusing just on these two.

When a game is a foregone conclusion, it's typically done so pretty brutally. The ones where it's down to the wire, 1v1 with the last mechs remaining, is rare.

Introducing respawns in standard modes, the most likely result will be:

• Slow trickling of each mech as they respawn, instead of coming out all at once
  
• People using mechs they don't know how to use due to unfamiliarity, creating a more rapid slide into being disadvantaged

Which leads to the inevitable loss of the initial 12-3 fight being dragged out over a much longer period.


Which would lead to people disconnecting and preemptively "surrendering", due to lack of a surrender option and failing morale. ( People already lambast their OWN team on all chat, as if to let everyone in the match know it was not THEIR FAULT, but the TEAM'S FAULT. Imagine this happening for longer.)

I can see that. Match times could be shortened to 10 min matches if it was desired to have shorter matches. Respawns could be arranged a bit into waves, say possibly a wave occurring once every 30 seconds, and anyone who died in that 30 seconds would respawn together.

I recall some of the issues that happened in the hay day of FP, and I agree some issues would likely still come from it. But, the question might rest on if it would provide more benefits over problems, especially considering current queue times from what I've been hearing, especially for those assault pilots.

I can also see the point of players being forced to use mechs they aren't familiar with at times. I think it's okay to use mechs you aren't as good at, as it means you have to broaden your skill sets. Most matches I don't see going down to all mechs destroyed in the current 15 min match. We had 30 mins in FP, and it took most of that to kill all four mechs in a drop deck most of the time. That was just before a lot of the quirks were refined, and survivability quirks weren't really added to many mechs yet like current.

The big issue with drop decks would be what tonnage would be permitted, and how would group play (which limits tonnage across the group) be done within it? I feel 240 ton would be the lightest max that could be done, so someone who loves assaults could have up to two 100 ton machines, with two 20 ton options. Or four 60 ton mechs in a drop deck. For group play restrictions... I got nothing. I don't think you could do anything about that, as they are already limited to 4 players (last I knew). Though... could the drop decks freeing up the MM open it to separating group and solo play again?

LordNothing, on 11 August 2025 - 06:58 PM, said:

decks in qp would be awesome. but then you couldnt call it quick play anymore as the game time would have to be expanded (frankly its hard to call it qp now given how long it takes to find a match). besides i think its easier to use eq for that. play one of the eq decked modes if you want to know how it goes.

i think we would be better off with open arenas, where you pick a deck, drop into an active game, and can re-spawn indefinitely until you get bored. though im not sure the game is quite designed for that. i know it would have to be team deathmatch because i dont think you can do ffa with the available infrastructure. frankly im not even sure you can do unlimited respawn. this eliminates most of the wait times except a respawn timer and map changes.

EQ? I am not familiar with this term at the moment. I might be having a dense moment...

As for your second paragraph, it could be, join an active battlefield that has bases on it, and you have a drop deck of 4 mechs. When all 4 mechs are destroyed, you are forced to leave that battlefield/match. Then you have to relaunch, where you might land on a different map as your active battlefield with your drop deck (which could be the same one as last match). Each match is basically an ongoing active battlefield. I don't think this idea would be overly good for the game as a whole (I image a lot of people want conclusive ends to a match), but it is an interesting idea.

[LordNothing]

event queue.

[Tesunie]

1453 R, on 11 August 2025 - 07:13 PM, said:

The matchmaker currently doesn't care about tonnage at all. The percentages in queue are a relic of a system that is no longer turned on and active.

Last I knew, and I could be wrong even though I try to stay up to date on patch notes, the system still attempts to match by the 3/3/3/3 rule, but opens the gates the longer it takes to find a match. The longer it takes to find a match, the larger the gates are opened, and the worse the imbalance tends to be.

The other option I could think of, if Drop Decks were somehow not possible, would be to remove the 3/3/3/3 matching, and just have MM look for pairs. If a match ends up oops all assault mechs somehow, then that could also lead to fun matches. This would be the case of, 100% of the queue within 30 seconds were all assault mechs, so it just paired them off (with PSR still added in as normal) balancing the mech class on each side of the combat. AKA: If one team has 5 assaults, so will the other team. If one side has 3 lights, so will the other side.

Just typing what I'm thinking.

[kalashnikity]

As a compromise, we could simply have frequent drop deck events, they are very fun.

"Drop Deck Weekends" or something like that, with a big experience bonus, to help level new mechs.

[pbiggz]

respawns would absolutely fix alot of problems with quick play, but you get guys talking like this

GreyNovember, on 11 August 2025 - 06:40 PM, said:

Focusing just on these two.

When a game is a foregone conclusion, it's typically done so pretty brutally. The ones where it's down to the wire, 1v1 with the last mechs remaining, is rare.

Introducing respawns in standard modes, the most likely result will be:

• Slow trickling of each mech as they respawn, instead of coming out all at once
  
• People using mechs they don't know how to use due to unfamiliarity, creating a more rapid slide into being disadvantaged

Which leads to the inevitable loss of the initial 12-3 fight being dragged out over a much longer period.


Which would lead to people disconnecting and preemptively "surrendering", due to lack of a surrender option and failing morale. ( People already lambast their OWN team on all chat, as if to let everyone in the match know it was not THEIR FAULT, but the TEAM'S FAULT. Imagine this happening for longer.)

and respectfully this is just being scared of change.

[Tesunie]

pbiggz, on 14 August 2025 - 05:43 AM, said:

respawns would absolutely fix alot of problems with quick play, but you get guys talking like this

and respectfully this is just being scared of change.

Probably similar to all the "I hate 8v8" posts/threads coming up right now too?

I will admit, there are pros and cons to having respawn as the default in the game, but I feel the pros are likely to outweigh the cons. So far, I've heard very little push back on the concept at the moment.

[pbiggz]

Tesunie, on 14 August 2025 - 06:49 AM, said:

Probably similar to all the "I hate 8v8" posts/threads coming up right now too?

I will admit, there are pros and cons to having respawn as the default in the game, but I feel the pros are likely to outweigh the cons. So far, I've heard very little push back on the concept at the moment.

It cant be done off the cuff. Some planning has to go into it, and there will be distortions that will have to get addressed, but most of the arguments against respawn essentially boil down to one of two things, either "im scared that there will be new exploits" or, "I hate change and will flame anyone who suggests changing anything".

8v8 is a symptom of the same phenomenon. Something fundamental changed, which means people who have been playing the same bad assaults and thinking about the game the exact same way, are suddenly being expected to respond to a fundamentally different battlefield, and they've decided instead of doing that, they're just going to have a meltdown in public instead.

[Tesunie]

pbiggz, on 14 August 2025 - 07:02 AM, said:

It cant be done off the cuff. Some planning has to go into it, and there will be distortions that will have to get addressed, but most of the arguments against respawn essentially boil down to one of two things, either "im scared that there will be new exploits" or, "I hate change and will flame anyone who suggests changing anything".

8v8 is a symptom of the same phenomenon. Something fundamental changed, which means people who have been playing the same bad assaults and thinking about the game the exact same way, are suddenly being expected to respond to a fundamentally different battlefield, and they've decided instead of doing that, they're just going to have a meltdown in public instead.

Any changes made would need planning. For 8v8, a lot of maps are likely going to be too large now, and might even be able to be altered into up to four different maps if they are sectioned off for 8v8 specific. A lot of perks on mechs are also geared more for 12v12 play, so those will likely also need adjustments.

As for respawn, same thing there, but we will likely be able to keep the 12v12 we currently have (as mech class is no longer an issue, as everyone has a specific amount of tonnage they can take), and the system has already been tested in FP for years. Match length likely would need to be adjusted, either shorter so matches never drag on, or longer so people can drop with most/all of their drop decks (depending upon desire, I would prefer 10-15 min matches and the likely hood of using 2-4 mechs in my deck in a single match), as well as likely will have spawn camping problems which will need alterations to maps to produce these safe spawn zones.

Any change can be difficult. I get that, considering changes I am not aware of can cause me anxiety personally. But I have learned that many changes can be for the good, and not always are bad. In this case, I recall some doubts but more excitement when it changed form 8v8 to 12v12, and the adjustment for 12v12 was even harder than it is going back. I am surprised people aren't liking 8v8 due to increase in time to kill/die as well as fewer eyes on the map making it easier to sneak around. I do understand the whole "A disconnect/group has a greater impact" too... But I rather look at the pros and cons, and balance out between which is better. A lot of people do knee jerk reactions and tend to hyper focus on only the bad.

Overall, I feel it's good PGI is testing 8v8, rather than just diving into the change. Get some numbers and feedback. Consider other alternatives. No reason to jump into any changes at this exact moment.

[GreyNovember]

pbiggz, on 14 August 2025 - 05:43 AM, said:

respawns would absolutely fix alot of problems with quick play, but you get guys talking like this



and respectfully this is just being scared of change.

Considering what I've experienced of FP where drop decks were made when it was the fresh and new thing, compounded with the usual results of what happens in quick play?

I'd say you're being overly dismissive over what has many precedents to judge the idea.

There is a reason I played the drop deck events once, and then not again afterward. Presumably there is also a reason people do not flock to the event drops as much as QP.

[Tesunie]

GreyNovember, on 14 August 2025 - 08:20 AM, said:

There is a reason I played the drop deck events once, and then not again afterward.

Okay. Let me get this right... You played Event Queue with Drop Decks once, and only once, and then went "I hate, no good" and never gave it any farther try or attempted to play it at least a few times to get a more mature opinion on it? Sounds like you might have been a little rash and quick on that.

Though, I do also want to remark, I understand that everyone has different preferences and likes different things. I can understand you might not have liked it when you tried it, but it sounds to me like you didn't even really give it a proper try. Rarely can one get a good impression of something after only one attempt.

[pbiggz]

GreyNovember, on 14 August 2025 - 08:20 AM, said:

Considering what I've experienced of FP where drop decks were made when it was the fresh and new thing, compounded with the usual results of what happens in quick play?

Anecdote.

GreyNovember, on 14 August 2025 - 08:20 AM, said:

I'd say you're being overly dismissive over what has many precedents to judge the idea.

If im being dismissive its because this community has a habit of demanding change, then cursing the change. The game sucks and must change but absolutely no change can be tolerated. Y'all absolutely want to have your cake and eat it too.

GreyNovember, on 14 August 2025 - 08:20 AM, said:

There is a reason I played the drop deck events once, and then not again afterward. Presumably there is also a reason people do not flock to the event drops as much as QP.

Your preferences are irrelevant, and implying that they have a bearing on the event queue's popularity is equally irrelevant.

[LordNothing]

i think the problem with decks is that you need to increase game time, unless the design is such that you do not have time to drop all four unless you are really potato and die in the first two minutes. that was actually the thing i liked about deck conquest is that you can still lose with a full team on the field, meaning everyone ends up sticking around to the end of the match, and i think its better for the mm if you get a whole team of players suddenly show up in the pool rather than have them trickle in one by one.

you now have the problem that time spent waiting is now time walking to battle, but thats more interesting than looking at a searching wheel. wish we had dynamic drop ships because if you do decked modes someone is going to want to spawn camp. the anti-spawncamp structures they used in qp modes in fp did more harm than good frankly. only real way to stop that is you either spawn a whole lance, or you make the spawns dynamic so you cant set up a spawn camp without dumb luck on your side.

another side effect is people who quit before consuming their mechs, if in the first 3 minutes of play the enemy are deemed too strong, or the friendly team too potato, some players will quit without trying. but that can be countered by stepping up aggression.

decked modes did less well in domination and usually makes assault irrelevant. fresh spawns keep the base secure from rushes and if there are still mechs on the field when the time goes out the need to end the match when you get stragglers goes away. you could probibly knock it down to just skirmish and conquest and save the other modes for eq.

[Tesunie]

LordNothing, on 14 August 2025 - 04:33 PM, said:

i think the problem with decks is that you need to increase game time, unless the design is such that you do not have time to drop all four unless you are really potato and die in the first two minutes. that was actually the thing i liked about deck conquest is that you can still lose with a full team on the field, meaning everyone ends up sticking around to the end of the match, and i think its better for the mm if you get a whole team of players suddenly show up in the pool rather than have them trickle in one by one.

you now have the problem that time spent waiting is now time walking to battle, but thats more interesting than looking at a searching wheel. wish we had dynamic drop ships because if you do decked modes someone is going to want to spawn camp. the anti-spawncamp structures they used in qp modes in fp did more harm than good frankly. only real way to stop that is you either spawn a whole lance, or you make the spawns dynamic so you cant set up a spawn camp without dumb luck on your side.

another side effect is people who quit before consuming their mechs, if in the first 3 minutes of play the enemy are deemed too strong, or the friendly team too potato, some players will quit without trying. but that can be countered by stepping up aggression.

decked modes did less well in domination and usually makes assault irrelevant. fresh spawns keep the base secure from rushes and if there are still mechs on the field when the time goes out the need to end the match when you get stragglers goes away. you could probibly knock it down to just skirmish and conquest and save the other modes for eq.

Personally, I'd plan for QP to feature shorter matches, with the intention that you wont always drop with all mechs from your deck on the average match. Kind of why I feel 10 min matches might feel better, as these QP matches will now likely last the entire match time (unless you push it out to 30 mins, which for QP I think would be a bit to long).

As for game modes:
- I think Assault would suffer with respawns. The base constantly getting reinforced would make it fall into TDM most times. However, TDM could be used to determine the victor if both bases are equal capture levels...
- Domination could be fine. All you need is one mech in the circle and it doesn't get captured. It might lead to shorter matches if one side finds themselves stomped within the spawn waves/time to walk back into the circle, but if your team is being beaten that badly... However, this will likely just become a TDM like it already basically is... But it's TDM with everyone heading towards the same spot on the map!
- TDM would just be a matter of killing the most enemies, rather than all enemies. Drop Decks would likely stop the whole last enemy mech running into a corner and shutting down thing no one seems to like (except those who seem to practice it).
- Conquest would require far more play towards the objective than currently. Right now, the meta for this game mode is "cap 2 points, then kill the enemy team", making it more TDM with a slight twist at times.

Did I forget any currently active game modes left in the game? I know there were two others that didn't survive. Escort would never work with a drop deck, and defending/destroying the base was built around a drop deck (but few people liked it and was too easy at times to gimmick the system by specifically angled shots).

Overall, I think on game modes, you'd probably be about right, but I wouldn't write off Domination (good for PUGs to all head to one location) too soon, and even Assault might still be able to work...


I think a question I want to add now might be, if we had Drop Decks in normal QP games, what other game modes might be added that support it that doesn't work currently without Drop Decks?

[Tesunie]

LordNothing, on 14 August 2025 - 04:33 PM, said:

you now have the problem that time spent waiting is now time walking to battle, but thats more interesting than looking at a searching wheel. wish we had dynamic drop ships because if you do decked modes someone is going to want to spawn camp. the anti-spawncamp structures they used in qp modes in fp did more harm than good frankly. only real way to stop that is you either spawn a whole lance, or you make the spawns dynamic so you cant set up a spawn camp without dumb luck on your side.

I meant to address this in my last post, but forgot to until proof reading your post with my post...

So, I think that drop ships could still work, but we would need some changes. One change I can think of is that, as you die you fill in slots. These slots are irrelevant to what lance you are in and instead is intended to group people together for a more solid drop. Once the drop occurs, everyone who dies drops in a solid of lance formations (sets of 4) as possible (probably within a 30 sec timer). So, say someone from alpha lance, 2 from brovo lance, and another one from charlie lance died in 30 seconds. All of them would spawn from one drop ship as a new set of 4. (30 seconds is a guess on drop wave time, and subject to change. I don't recall what it's at normal anymore.)

Another thing might be some kind of coding that drops people on respawn at the point with the enemies at the farthest away from it, so you don't drop on Alpha site if enemies are there, but more likely to drop on Charlie or Brovo site then. (With the above dynamic respawn, if 4 mechs are already spawning on the site with the farthest enemies, then the 5-8th mech respawns happening at the same time would drop at the next available site). We could also consider additional drop sites over the 3 starting spots, so it's even harder to spawn camp a team...

If people are invincible (I know, immersion breaking) while they drop and maybe 2-5 second after hitting the ground, that might also help players survive getting to the ground and gather their bearings before being pummeled by the enemy. No clumsy barriers that choke your team up or get snagged on needed.

Plenty of options that could be done to possibly improve on the Drop Deck respawn system. How hard or practical any of these are, meh. I'm not a game designer and I don't do computer coding.

[GreyNovember]

pbiggz, on 14 August 2025 - 10:33 AM, said:

If im being dismissive its because this community has a habit of demanding change, then cursing the change. The game sucks and must change but absolutely no change can be tolerated. Y'all absolutely want to have your cake and eat it too.

I am providing some form of counter to the idea that Drop Decks are a good idea to improve wait time. You seem to be conflating "y'all" as one singular entity that actively self contradicts, like some kind of two headed liar.

But alright, sure.

Everything I ever said is an Anecdote, which means it has ABOSLUTELY NO VALUE and provides NO useful information whatsoever to evaluate the concept. There is NOTHING to be gained by looking back at what Faction Play was like, the Event Drop decks were PERFECT and should be implemented WHOLESALE and will fix all the problems forever.

[pbiggz]

GreyNovember, on 15 August 2025 - 08:57 AM, said:

I am providing some form of counter to the idea that Drop Decks are a good idea to improve wait time. You seem to be conflating "y'all" as one singular entity that actively self contradicts, like some kind of two headed liar.

But alright, sure.

Everything I ever said is an Anecdote, which means it has ABOSLUTELY NO VALUE and provides NO useful information whatsoever to evaluate the concept. There is NOTHING to be gained by looking back at what Faction Play was like, the Event Drop decks were PERFECT and should be implemented WHOLESALE and will fix all the problems forever.

You seem to think that because someone might get spawn camped, the whole thing is a non-starter, and i don't really have the patience anymore to explain why that's a dumb take.