48 replies to this topic

[nanashi0110]

If my memory serves me correctly... I recall the MGs getting pretty harsh punishment because of the VPR-F.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the current machine guns. If anything, I think the other weapon-handling MECHs are the ones that are overpowered...

[HauptmanT]

How bout No.

It's probably my fault you are so pissy about MGs. I've been running a lot of MG builds past few weeks, and have been having a blast.

The machine gun is NOT overpowered. Not even in the slightest.
What is overpowered is boating any weapon. Doesnt matter if it is micro pulse, small lasers, or MGs... when you have 14 of them, you are going to win any fight.

The trade off, is my range is 130 meters. Sometimes it's hard, if not impossible to get that close without getting merced by 5 mechs. However, if you find some lone mech, lurming in the back, then you can have a good game.

If anything MGs need a buff, especially light MGs. Light MGs are pure trash. Been struggling to skill up my LMG Warthog and Cicada mechs... the HMG versions were a riot, fun to play and good damage, the LMG versions I'm lucky to do 300 dmg in a full match. It's kind of sad, when HMGs can do 300 damage on a suicide run. But I keep the mechs due to that 500+ range just to be annoying.

Everyone hates that ping-ping-ping noise, and it makes them move. Just doesnt do anything other than that.

Also, lets not forget that the .50 cal M2 HMG is like the oldest weapon still in production today, for a reason. Literally the pinnacle of gunpowder technology. It has zero issue killing most vehicles IRL, so you have no "but in real life" argument to make why they shouldnt be good vs armor. And in TT is just a short range light weapon that does the same damage as a small laser, SRM missile, and AC2.

In game, always use the HMG, unless you cant afford the tonnage. IS HMGs are stupidly heavy, and damage per ton is HORRIBLE, but en masse, they can shred. If I could boat 14 medium lasers, I'd rather do that, but heat scale limits are a thing, and heat in general can suck the life right out of you, so that balances MGs a bit. No heat issue makes up for weak damage.

Now on the subject of damage, being a DPS weapon, that's what matters. Clan HMG and micro pulse are both 1.4 dps. Heavy small lasers double that. ER smalls are about 50% more dps, and double the range, all those are half ton weapons. IS being 1 ton for a HMG is just bad, and they are garbage compared to IS small pulse, range and dps. And since you can boat IS Small Pulse, that would be a better choice by a mile, if you have the cooling and hardpoints. But inner sphere also has x-pulse. An unquirked small x-pulse is 2 dps, vs IS HMGs 1.5 dps. IS doesnt have a lot of boating options, especially in light mechs, so you generally run a mix, and it's your x-pulse that do the majority of damage. The Locusts have the quirks to double the fire rate of thier x-pulse, making them 4 dps beasts for a single ton, while only one has a 100% MG ROF, because it only has 2 slots for each laser and MG.

AP Gauss and Magshot are both horrible dps weapons, at less than 1 dps each, unless wildly quirked. But they are PPFLD. Comparable to LMGs, which I think are horrible.

Edited by HauptmanT, 23 September 2025 - 01:04 PM.

[Ttly]

HauptmanT, on 23 September 2025 - 11:06 AM, said:

How bout No. It's probably my fault you are so pissy about MGs. I've been running a lot of MG builds past few weeks, and have been having a blast. The machine gun is NOT overpowered. Not even in the slightest. What is overpowered is boating any weapon. Doesnt matter if it is micro pulse, small lasers, or MGs... when you have 14 of them, you are going to win any fight. The trade off, is my range is 130 meters. Sometimes it's hard, if not impossible to get that close without getting merced by 5 mechs. However, if you find some lone mech, lurming in the back, then you can have a good game. If anything MGs need a buff, especially light MGs. Light MGs are pure trash. Been struggling to skill up my LMG Warthog and Cicada mechs... the HMG versions were a riot, fun to play and good damage, the LMG versions I'm lucky to do 300 dmg in a full match. It's kind of sad, when HMGs can do 300 damage on a suicide run. But I keep the mechs due to that 500+ range just to be annoying. Everyone hates that ping-ping-ping noise, and it makes them move. Just doesnt do anything other than that. Also, lets not forget that the .50 cal M2 HMG is like the oldest weapon still in production today, for a reason. Literally the pinnacle of gunpowder technology. It has zero issue killing most vehicles IRL, so you have no "but in real life" argument to make why they shouldnt be good vs armor. And in TT is just a short range light weapon that does the same damage as a small laser, SRM missile, and AC2. In game, always use the HMG, unless you cant afford the tonnage. IS HMGs are stupidly heavy, and damage per ton is HORRIBLE, but en masse, they can shred. If I could boat 14 medium lasers, I'd rather do that, but heat scale limits are a thing, and heat in general can suck the life right out of you, so that balances MGs a bit. No heat issue makes up for weak damage. Now on the subject of damage, being a DPS weapon, that's what matters. Clan HMG and micro pulse are both 1.4 dps. Heavy small lasers double that. ER smalls are about 50% more dps, and double the range, all those are half ton weapons. IS being 1 ton for a HMG is just bad, and they are garbage compared to IS small pulse, range and dps. And since you can boat IS Small Pulse, that would be a better choice by a mile, if you have the cooling and hardpoints. But inner sphere also has x-pulse. An unquirked small x-pulse is 2 dps, vs IS HMGs 1.5 dps. IS doesnt have a lot of boating options, especially in light mechs, so you generally run a mix, and it's your x-pulse that do the majority of damage. The Locusts have the quirks to double the fire rate of thier x-pulse, making them 4 dps beasts for a single ton, while only one has a 100% MG ROF, because it only has 2 slots for each laser and MG. AP Gauss and Magshot are both horrible dps weapons, at less than 1 dps each, unless wildly quirked. But they are PPFLD. Comparable to LMGs, which I think are horrible.

LMGs needing buffs?
That's a new one. They're more like zero heat ERMLs you ask me, and its range in general just makes them a lot less positionally restrictive to use because most (not all) maps in the game seems to be made to accomodate 400m range weapons very well if nothing else.

HMGs are fine too.
The HMGboats like Crael/Summoner-Crael (as an obscene example of p2w powercreep on the latter even) are very dangerous (30DPS) against the opposing team even if they're deemed "too challenging to use" by most players.
It's really just the regular MGs that are seriously underwhelming for the same playstyle but less damage.

Edited by Ttly, 24 September 2025 - 04:44 AM.

[Soylent Connoisseur]

Did you really get killed by a full machine gun build

Edited by TRUMP 2028, 25 September 2025 - 02:35 PM.

[HauptmanT]

Ttly, on 24 September 2025 - 03:12 AM, said:

LMGs needing buffs?
That's a new one. They're more like zero heat ERMLs you ask me, and its range in general just makes them a lot less positionally restrictive to use because most (not all) maps in the game seems to be made to accomodate 400m range weapons very well if nothing else.

HMGs are fine too.
The HMGboats like Crael/Summoner-Crael (as an obscene example of p2w powercreep on the latter even) are very dangerous (30DPS) against the opposing team even if they're deemed "too challenging to use" by most players.
It's really just the regular MGs that are seriously underwhelming for the same playstyle but less damage.

Yeh, feels like poking people with ERMLs, aka, not good. LMGs are just so... not very serious. Even with 14 of them, I can stare at somebodies open CT in a LMG Warthog, and still lose that duel. Maybe if they gave them the crit damage back, they'd feel right.

My ONLY issue with HMGs, is how much IS versions weigh, one ton per MG is a lot for light mechs. They feel perfect beyond that, if you can make them fit with good enough quirks. The two HMG Locusts can do some work, since you can stare at stuff all day long in a Locust.

My Crael uses normal MGs because of the weight issue. Dont want to give up any speed, or have to resort to XL.

Edited by HauptmanT, 26 September 2025 - 07:37 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

HauptmanT, on 26 September 2025 - 07:09 PM, said:

Yeh, feels like poking people with ERMLs, aka, not good. LMGs are just so... not very serious. Even with 14 of them, I can stare at somebodies open CT in a LMG Warthog, and still lose that duel. Maybe if they gave them the crit damage back, they'd feel right.

That's your first problem, doing it in a mech that has a glass jaw but especially since you aren't using anything else for DPS. LMGs are part of several DPS builds like on a Beam/LMG Shadow Cat or Incubus both of which use good profiles to punish mechs in the open in a much safer way than a Warthog.

The Crael is also bad unless you are playing tier 3-5 players who struggle to even find their shoot button or know well enough to punish mechs crossing open ground slowly.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 26 September 2025 - 11:11 PM.

[caravann]

STOP HACKERS USING CRITICAL HITS TO DESTROY WEAPONS

[Rosarius]

caravann, on 01 October 2025 - 09:20 AM, said:

STOP HACKERS USING CRITICAL HITS TO DESTROY WEAPONS

Crit rolls are determined by the server though, unless you're implying that someone is hacking the server itself and causing specific crits in real time?

[Stonefalcon]

Rosarius, on 01 October 2025 - 11:52 PM, said:

Crit rolls are determined by the server though, unless you're implying that someone is hacking the server itself and causing specific crits in real time?

Ahhh the good old days when Paul was running dev hacks mid match.

[GreyNovember]

caravann, on 01 October 2025 - 09:20 AM, said:

STOP HACKERS USING CRITICAL HITS TO DESTROY WEAPONS

Yeah man they're doing things like

Clicking

And Aiming

And then hitting

That's clearly hacker behavior

[KursedVixen]

Ttly, on 21 September 2025 - 12:46 PM, said:

Ooooh, here's an idea.
Why not buff MGs to ERSL range (200m)? With how pitiful its DPS is except against structure I don't really see why not.
Would also make them less positionally challenging to use sure, 150m is just a bit too low for its damage anyway.
HMGs can stay at 150m though, it does hurt people that get into its range pretty well already.

I mean hey, most builds that involves it are clearly pretty underperforming seeing as even the PIR-1 are more often seen with LMGs than MGs even, and anything bigger might as well use HMGs.

Warthog, Pirahna, Flea, that's why, also just put micro pulse in if you want lasers that match the range for clan mechs.

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 October 2025 - 09:16 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KursedVixen, on 02 October 2025 - 09:15 PM, said:

Warthog, Pirahna, Flea, that's why, also just put micro pulse in if you want lasers that match the range for clan mechs.

Ironically two of the three mechs you just listed are way better off with APG instead of LMGs/MGs.

[caravann]

Rosarius, on 01 October 2025 - 11:52 PM, said:

Crit rolls are determined by the server though, unless you're implying that someone is hacking the server itself and causing specific crits in real time?

It's normal for all weapons being destroyed without taking out the armor?

Like all my medium lasers in one arm were instantly wiped away in 0,1 second with barely hitting the arm.

[Void Angel]

caravann, on 06 October 2025 - 09:56 AM, said:

It's normal for all weapons being destroyed without taking out the armor?

Like all my medium lasers in one arm were instantly wiped away in 0,1 second with barely hitting the arm.

You're going to have to give screenshots for that - email support. But like he said, crits and such are server-authoritative, which makes normal hacks ineffective. They'd have to have penetrated the game server in some way to override that. It may be a bug, or it may be that your paper doll hadn't updated or something; but if it's happening, let Support know so they can investigate it.

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 03 October 2025 - 10:17 AM, said:

Ironically two of the three mechs you just listed are way better off with APG instead of LMGs/MGs.

yeah and if one of those is the pirahna the AGP weights 0.5 tons while the LMG and MG weights 0.25tons

[Void Angel]

If you would think, instead of throwing out contrarianism, you'd embarrass yourself a lot less.

[Moadebe]

Just a personal take.

Machine guns in an overall scheme of things are fine. While yes they do damage I have always seen its usage in MWO as a "equipment destroyer" or a "mech crippler". They tend to be pretty damaging to structure and critting out equipment/weapons. Leaving a mech crippled.

Since this requires open structure to really shine its why it feels like a wet noodle against armor. You wont get its full effects and damage in until that structure itself is being hit.

Due to this I see it as an execution mech with a mid to late match focus. During the times when components are open due to battle attrition.

If you try to pressure early when everyone is fresh you have a tendency to not perform as well cause you are only using half of your weapons capabilities. Which leaves em lackluster if you die early.

Focus on survival and covering your heavies from the enemies lights at the start. Get more aggressive once you notice the enemy mechs are getting more and more opened up and in range.


Do this and they excel. Maybe light machine guns could use some love....maybe a look at a minute crit buff (not much at all because of its range.) I do think regular machine guns need to move higher out in range since there is a much smaller gap between heavies and regulars than there are regulars and lights.

*shrug

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KursedVixen, on 06 October 2025 - 01:11 PM, said:

yeah and if one of those is the pirahna the AGP weights 0.5 tons while the LMG and MG weights 0.25tons

Good thing it isn't huh?

Though that said, the PIR-B with APG/Plasma is pretty solid, idk if it's the best Piranha out of the group but it's high up there.

[Ttly]

Moadebe, on 06 October 2025 - 02:50 PM, said:

Just a personal take.

Machine guns in an overall scheme of things are fine. While yes they do damage I have always seen its usage in MWO as a "equipment destroyer" or a "mech crippler". They tend to be pretty damaging to structure and critting out equipment/weapons. Leaving a mech crippled.

Since this requires open structure to really shine its why it feels like a wet noodle against armor. You wont get its full effects and damage in until that structure itself is being hit.

Due to this I see it as an execution mech with a mid to late match focus. During the times when components are open due to battle attrition.

If you try to pressure early when everyone is fresh you have a tendency to not perform as well cause you are only using half of your weapons capabilities. Which leaves em lackluster if you die early.

Focus on survival and covering your heavies from the enemies lights at the start. Get more aggressive once you notice the enemy mechs are getting more and more opened up and in range.


Do this and they excel. Maybe light machine guns could use some love....maybe a look at a minute crit buff (not much at all because of its range.) I do think regular machine guns need to move higher out in range since there is a much smaller gap between heavies and regulars than there are regulars and lights.

*shrug

Reading on stuff, the +effectiveDPS against structure through crits for MGs (and HMGs by extent) as listed here, I won't say make them balanced for how restrictive their range is.
At best you get IS MGs hitting 1.9DPS, while C-MGs only hit 1.6 against structure.
And then IS HMG doing 2.4 and C-HMGs doing 2.1.

Then there's also the matter on the whole "waiting until later in the match where the enemy players might have less armor" which translates to "your team is down a player because there's an MG guy who's there to try to secure kills later instead" which sounds pretty selfish.

Oh also how most chassis doesn't really have that much structure over armor to make up their hitpoints, which means the +DPS against structure (and critical hits) to not mattering as much as some people would prefer.
Or how mounted items have enough item health (cDHS even got its item health buffed lately) that getting them critted at all usually means the component would also be very low on structure as well anyway or might as well destroyed unless you're IS H/MGs apparently, which has a lot of critDamMult for real item damage.

And also how whether a vehicle has its hitpoints to mostly consist of either structure or armor can get pretty arbitrary.
(the Awesome has 75 structure+100 armor CT, the Atlas has 60 structure+150 armor CT)
Only for the structure bloat chassis to ALSO get -crit% to negate the weakness of structure as hitpoints (getting critted).

So yeah, MGs are kind of underpowered even in their niche.

Edited by Ttly, 18 October 2025 - 03:04 AM.

[Void Angel]

Structure "bloat" chassis, is it? You mean like the Longbow? The Heavy Metal? The Warhawk, Battlemaster, Supernova, and Gargoyle? Or the Clan Stalker and Nightstar? I just went down the list of Assaults with CT structure quirks, here. I'll save you the trouble of looking up the data (for the first time, apparently) - none of those chassis and 'mechs have incoming crit reduction to pair with their significant structure bonuses. There are Assaults that do have crit reduction, but they're the ones that are deliberately designed to be deceptively tough (such as the War Emu, or Charger #7,) and they aren't the norm - most of them are 'mechs like the Zeus and Awesome, whose durability isn't well-regarded. Unless you're prepared to claim that the Awesome isn't fragile enough...?

Now, MechDB doesn't properly account for full-body quirks, so it's harder to look those up - the quirk is also much more rare. However, the Thunderbolt comes to mind as a recipient, and it... does not have crit reduction. When you dislike something, it becomes actually more important to be sure you're thinking about it rationally when you criticize.