39 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

Yeah, locks are hard to get when something won't stay in your field of vision. Against lights of all speeds, I find that pinpoint damage works best. Wait for it, wait for it, bang. Again, the trick is waiting for it while you're being lit up with small weapons, the reflex is to panic fire. But if you hit back with 30 points of pinpoint damage, a firemoth will be in a world of hurt.

[Void Angel]

epikt, on 14 September 2025 - 09:14 PM, said:

Hum... yes and no...
I pilot the Firemoth a lot and most of the time my streaker opponents have trouble acquiring lock on me because, well, i'm so fast I'm already gone. Streaks are much easier to use against slowers lights (140kph and less).
On the other hand, as soon as they got the lock and are firing whatbillions of missiles at my moth, well, i'm basically dead.

Evading Streaks because I can run behind cover, or even out-range them is still Streaks working, though. Streakers are used to being able to keep pace with 'mechs better than they can with the Firemoth - a classic Skillcrow build will open the gap with a Locust at only 56.7 kmh, and there's faster Streak boats out there. Doing the worst-case math, that outdated Skillcrow D build will proabably stagger-fire its Streaks around 4 times, for 204 points of damage. Even on average, that's still a lot of damage to deal to someone with a Locust's armor - to say nothing of a Firemoth's.

The reason you don't see a lot of Streakboats, at least in Tier 1-3, isn't because they're not good at killing Lights - including the Firemoth - it's that for killing anything else, a standard SRM bomber will do a much better job, and that lasers/ballistics offer much more flexibility in Quick Play.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 15 September 2025 - 09:32 AM, said:

Evading Streaks because I can run behind cover, or even out-range them is still Streaks working, though. Streakers are used to being able to keep pace with 'mechs better than they can with the Firemoth - a classic Skillcrow build will open the gap with a Locust at only 56.7 kmh, and there's faster Streak boats out there. Doing the worst-case math, that outdated Skillcrow D build will proabably stagger-fire its Streaks around 4 times, for 204 points of damage. Even on average, that's still a lot of damage to deal to someone with a Locust's armor - to say nothing of a Firemoth's.

The reason you don't see a lot of Streakboats, at least in Tier 1-3, isn't because they're not good at killing Lights - including the Firemoth - it's that for killing anything else, a standard SRM bomber will do a much better job, and that lasers/ballistics offer much more flexibility in Quick Play.

streaks require 1. a lock which can be easily cut by stealth armor or ecm, so unless you have a pcc or a tag to cut through that your really not gonna benfit from streaks 2. they are heavier reducing the amount of other stuff you can use 3. you can't dumfire them 4. Clan streaks do less than 2 damage per missile to compensate for the extended range.

You're really better off with normal SRMs/MRM's or ATMs if you really want to stick with missiles

Edited by KursedVixen, 15 September 2025 - 09:48 AM.

[Void Angel]

You're counting the lock-on requirement twice, everyone who runs a Streakboat has access to PPCs + TAG, and Stealth Armor is rare for Lights - most Lights can't even use it, and fewer actually want to.

For Lights, Streaks are quite effective - it's against larger targets that they become dramatically worse than other missile options.

[Ilfi]

Are lights even used in competitive by choice? I reckon teams would only field Heavy and Assault Mechs if they had the option to. The best weapons flat out don't care how fast you are and will leg or core a light in one good shot.

I have trouble believing that this quad light wolf pack boogeyman is a threat outside of T5-- and quite frankly, if it is, it deserves to stay that way, because no one on this planet "deserves" to win a 1v4 they were foolish enough to waddle into.

[Lollerisms]

Lights are used in comp as a wolfpack to secure a numerical advantage in a fight and as capbots.

[Void Angel]

Ilfi, on 15 September 2025 - 02:04 PM, said:

Are lights even used in competitive by choice? I reckon teams would only field Heavy and Assault Mechs if they had the option to. The best weapons flat out don't care how fast you are and will leg or core a light in one good shot.

I have trouble believing that this quad light wolf pack boogeyman is a threat outside of T5-- and quite frankly, if it is, it deserves to stay that way, because no one on this planet "deserves" to win a 1v4 they were foolish enough to waddle into.

In 8v8, wolf packs of Lights and other fast movers could be quite effective. The tactic wasn't to death circle someone who was dumb enough to wander off alone; rather, you would run by the outside of a fight in a tight line - and as you ran past, everyone would shoot the same leg. Contrary to the "MuRdRE BaLl iS StuPId" crowd's line of thought, there's usually someone you can hit while you're shielded from return fire from most of his teammates, and before quirks, there was not one 'mech who could take the full alphas of 4 Jenner Ds and walk right afterwards. 'Course, it took a lot less to leg that Jenner, and wolfpacks could be countered by pugs who coordinated against them; but those teams who refused to cooperate died.

By the same token, Light wolfpacks are less common now, simply because there's so much more firepower around that can be pointed at them, but you so see them occasionally, whether in a premade or thrown together by chance.

Edited by Void Angel, 15 September 2025 - 04:13 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Void Angel, on 15 September 2025 - 10:00 AM, said:

You're counting the lock-on requirement twice, everyone who runs a Streakboat has access to PPCs + TAG, and Stealth Armor is rare for Lights - most Lights can't even use it, and fewer actually want to.

Yup, my streak boat of choice is a Huntsman loaded out with plasmas and streak-4's. Nullifies ECM nicely unless its a well run wolfpack.

[Void Angel]

ScrapIron Prime, on 15 September 2025 - 05:01 PM, said:

Yup, my streak boat of choice is a Huntsman loaded out with plasmas and streak-4's. Nullifies ECM nicely unless its a well run wolfpack.

The apex Streakboat these days is an Arctic Wolf with ECM and Light TAG; the Kintaro 19 on the IS side can run the same weapons without ECM, but with more Armor/Structure and either slower speed or an IS XL.

The Huntsman is a great 'mech, but for a Streakboat, 81kph is still a bit slow.

[Rhaelcan]

ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 08 September 2025 - 11:34 PM, said:

This is great,...lets make an even faster smaller mech that makes a piranha seem like an easy target. PGI......do you know what it looks like when four comp players drop in these bad boys and wolf pack together? Right now, whichever team has more of these little buggers wins. Assaults have medium level armor now because they have to beef up back armor for the inevitable fire moth beaming in behind the team in the opening minute of game play. You broke your own game with this kind of speed. Enough is enough. Ive had to run streak boats just to have a chance and watched these guys take an alpha of streaks in the open and have nothing register.

Of course the pilot who only plays Assaults complains about a mech which you can easily hit if you can aim.

[Moadebe]

ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 08 September 2025 - 11:34 PM, said:

This is great,...lets make an even faster smaller mech that makes a piranha seem like an easy target. PGI......do you know what it looks like when four comp players drop in these bad boys and wolf pack together? Right now, whichever team has more of these little buggers wins. Assaults have medium level armor now because they have to beef up back armor for the inevitable fire moth beaming in behind the team in the opening minute of game play. You broke your own game with this kind of speed. Enough is enough. Ive had to run streak boats just to have a chance and watched these guys take an alpha of streaks in the open and have nothing register.

There ARE hit registration issues in this game. Been gathering instances of it recently and its pretty blatant. There are reasons it happens though. Mostly the server "tick rate." Which basically boils down to latency and the multiple calculations of the game between clients side and server side. Just dont let people gaslight you into saying there isnt an issue, cause there is. Its just very insidious and happens uncommonly (not rarely) and is not obvious all the time. (Also you CANNOT go off of spectator mode....there will ALWAYS be lag there and will ALWAYS appear to have reg issues....thats not what im referring to.)

Masc acceleration and deceleration are known to cause issues. Its why the firemoth doesn't get full MASC accel/decel. The firing streaks at their max range can be a problem too for not only the Firemoth but any fast light since they can run outta range even after being fired.

Groups cant run all 4 Firemoths due to tonnage constraints true, but it is possible to sync drop and game that system as well. Its NOT often, but can happen. I wouldn't worry too much about this since its usually not a prolific issue. If you get two drops in a row where something like this happens and you are getting frustrated. Wait 5 minutes before queing for your next match. You very well might miss that group. (This is something Id suggest to everyone if they feel they keep getting the same good players over and over. The population is low so it will happen, but not so low that you cant wait a little bit to hopefully bypass em. Also changing weight class can be an option as well, and region if your ping isnt too bad.)

The armor thing....thats how you build your mech. Which is however you feel like you should build it or want to build it. I WOULD suggest always investing in seismic sensor and learning to stutter step your mech. Move and if you feel someone might be around...just stop for a brief second and it should register if a mech is moving around near you. Its a VERY powerful tool at your disposal.

Btw...
Dont let the ego driven drivel get to ya. Some of these people are incapable of giving positive advice without looking down on someone for the sake of their own overinflated ego in a video game.

Your post is probably driven by frustration over experiences you have had. Which is fine. We all have those times. Just look at it as a way to work on your play a little bit and be aware of ways to counter them.

[Void Angel]

Moadebe, on 29 September 2025 - 09:05 AM, said:

(Also you CANNOT go off of spectator mode....there will ALWAYS be lag there and will ALWAYS appear to have reg issues....thats not what im referring to.)

I've often wished more people realized that HSR does not work with spectation.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Watching someone from Oceanic (I'm in NA) trying to finish off the last mech can be cringe inducing until you realize there is a 200+ms difference.

[MP Stiletto]

Light mechs in general were initially a huge frustration for me when I first started playing MWO. Coming from a background of playing TT BattleTech, I was used to the idea that light mechs of any flavor didn't last long against anything with a large enough weapon system. One stock Hunchback with it's AC 20 was pretty much guaranteed of amputating any light mech limb it hit, and had a chance of one-shotting most of them on a CT shot.

Between higher armor values on everything and funky hit recognition, my early days were spent cursing out ridiculous light mechs and internal accusations that the programmers intentionally made lights overpowered because they thought they should defy logic and make them the most powerful things out of spite or ignorance or whatever twisted reason they had.

I've learned to acknowledge that some of it is true, but was necessary for game balance - I frequently remind myself that MWO, while wearing a similar skin, is a completely different game than BT. If lights were as fragile as they are in BT, very few would play them, as getting one-shot killed would get old really fast. I do wish they could make hit recognition work better, but between the limitations of the game engine, and game balance, it's likely just something to adjust to.

[GreyNovember]

Here.



Me, in a Firemoth, doing my damndest to not get hit by a Wolfhound with MPLs, while also still fighting it.

I failed, and had my legs stripped open before I chose to disengage.

We can get hit even if we're trying to dodge.

Just HIT US.

[HauptmanT]

Novakaine, on 13 September 2025 - 09:49 PM, said:

Don't shot at them lead your target just a bit and boom.
They run into the blast every time.
But be advised they do have PGI plot armor.
I don't care what anyone's says.

Your weapon spread and convergence is bigger than my mech. It's not plot armor, its spread. Your 4 srm 6 gave you the red hit indicator because one missile hit, not all of them.

Firemoth/Dasher is a fun mech, and it's about time they gave it to us. I've been screaming about it (and Wasp/Stinger) for years. OPs complaints are music to my ears. But still, when I want a good match, I play my Locii. Firemoth's legs are absolute bullet magnets, and the thing dies so easily with one mistake. Locust and flea... now those are broken mechs.

Edited by HauptmanT, 16 October 2025 - 07:35 AM.

[HauptmanT]

MP Stiletto, on 29 September 2025 - 03:39 PM, said:

Light mechs in general were initially a huge frustration for me when I first started playing MWO. Coming from a background of playing TT BattleTech, I was used to the idea that light mechs of any flavor didn't last long against anything with a large enough weapon system. One stock Hunchback with it's AC 20 was pretty much guaranteed of amputating any light mech limb it hit, and had a chance of one-shotting most of them on a CT shot.

Between higher armor values on everything and funky hit recognition, my early days were spent cursing out ridiculous light mechs and internal accusations that the programmers intentionally made lights overpowered because they thought they should defy logic and make them the most powerful things out of spite or ignorance or whatever twisted reason they had.

I've learned to acknowledge that some of it is true, but was necessary for game balance - I frequently remind myself that MWO, while wearing a similar skin, is a completely different game than BT. If lights were as fragile as they are in BT, very few would play them, as getting one-shot killed would get old really fast. I do wish they could make hit recognition work better, but between the limitations of the game engine, and game balance, it's likely just something to adjust to.

Yes, it's a balance descision. They gave large mechs slow manueverability, slow target tracking, and limited yaw and twist angles on purpose. That makes the lights HARD counters to bigfat assaults. We dont need 'scouting' in this game... maps too small, you already know where the enemy is as soon as you see the map. So they need to be useful, and rock/paper/scissoring them to beat up slow assaults was the right move.

PGI did real good with hit reg to be honest. For what they can do... they account for ping rates. What they absolutely cannot possibly account for is HARDWARE lag. That's all on the mechdad who runs a 60hz monitor and an $85 video card, that leaves him at 100ms of video lag. It might look like you hit me dead center mast, but you hit where I was 1/10th of a second ago. Tenth of a second is an eternity at 165 kph @ 50 meters.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing the host can do to fix this, this is all on the end user. Buy better computer gear.

[HauptmanT]

BlueDevilspawn, on 29 September 2025 - 02:06 PM, said:

Watching someone from Oceanic (I'm in NA) trying to finish off the last mech can be cringe inducing until you realize there is a 200+ms difference.

Ping isnt the issue. We know ping lag is removed because what you see spectating is not what the pilot sees, when an obvious visible miss turns in the reticle red. As I stated in the previous post, it's likely video lag issues when somebody absolutely cannot hit a light. I struggled with this for quite some time, using old hardware... didnt realize how bad it was until I upgraded.

[TVMA Doc]

pattonesque, on 09 September 2025 - 09:08 AM, said:

I dunno about streaks but the Firemoth isn't that hard to hit. It's very fast but it's not *that* agile or small

Their legs don't seem to like AC20s either.

[ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER]

pbiggz, on 09 September 2025 - 09:34 AM, said:

IF IT DOESNT DIE WHEN I LOOK AT IT THEY'RE CHEATING /s


I see we're having a normal time today.

Exactly,..thanks, good to know people understand this,..or people are trolling ********,..which are you again?