59 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 03 November 2025 - 10:38 PM, said:

Objectives are not primary goals. They're just points of interest, so players wouldn't be able to hide around whole map and would need to fight for something. Game's goal - is to kill enemy players. Playing shooter and not shooting? Nice idea. These "I want to play capture flag" guys are ridiculous.

this man is correct today.

[Moadebe]

Im just gonna say this.

Cause ya still dont get it.

In a perfect scenario where everyone is on the same page and doing their thing with optimal gameplay and communication going on. Yall are ABSOLUTELY right in how pointless objectives really are. AKA the competitive scene. Every person being on the same page. Actually TRYING to work as a team, and people running optimized builds, while communicating properly. Yes yall are correct.

AGAIN....different mindsets and different game modes.

Quickplay...will NEVER be that environment. EVER. Yet yall saying this bull of "ignore objectives..just shoot...it cascades down to equal X effect and leads to Y," only has a 50/50 maybe 75/25 and a tad more best of panning out. The closer you get to T1 it starts to hit that 75/25 mark.

While I respect the good players for the skill ya DO have. I can acknowledge that. You are ONLY thinking in that competitive mindset. To be the BEST you can be. To want to play optimally. That is YOU. Yet you cant fathom why someone would want to do anything different and thus its ruining your "fun" of just shooting mechs.

In QP .... none of that is gonna happen. Half the team has voice muted for various reasons. Those that have voice activated and open id say 25% either dont use it, dont pay attention to it, or looks at it as a nuisance. The other 25% id say cares about whats being said in the least, barely uses it, or actually uses it to try to give SOME actionable information.

Of those that give SOME actionable information we can say about half of that will give actual solid tactical strategy (counter their nascar, go to grid X, setup here...W/E).

If you go lower tier you come across people who look at this game as an actual MechWarrior battle sim who actually start getting INTO it and start having fun calling out movement and working together and enjoying things. Seen it time and again and these matches are usually the golden ones.

The higher tier you get the less you hear from people aside from the whining and getting frustrated at people who either dont listen, dont play to how YOU want to play, off doing their own thing, or have teams of people in discord communicating outside of the game and not in it so everyone else in game can be on the same page.

Not saying it DOESNT happen with the good comms at higher tier. Im saying it happens less and less. Mostly because the people who are playing who are good are frustrated themselves because while YOU might know how to play...a majority dont. So it feels like herding cats.

Again. Its quick play...not comp.

This is one of the MAIN reasons why there is this contempt between a "compie" and a "mechdad". (Which lets be real...both terms are used in a derogatory way by both parties when describing the other.)

If more groups at higher levels would stop using outside team speaks (TS/discord) and use the in game comms more people who actually do want to learn will. Those who dont...will ignore them and keep playing however they want. You cant teach em all. If you try....you get frustrated, and you will continue to be frustrated. So will the casual because they have a different mindset.

So no. I DONT accept yalls arguments about ignoring objectives. ESPECIALLY in Quick play. Is it the proper way.....in how this game is setup...sure.

But having objectives and playing those objectives in quick play causes chaos in those who are more casual and just want to shoot mechs. Which upsets the order of things. Heck ive won games from objective play when we were getting pub stomped by T1 tryhards who just pissed and moaned about me playing the objective causing them to lose. Its called winning the match which is what we are there for.

Sure "kill them all then play the minigame" works alot of times...but not always. And thats the point.

So while I respect the people who have put in the work to learn, advance, and climb to the top. Be mindful of a different perspective than your own. You might learn something yourselves.

[pattonesque]

I mean all that is fine but standing in a square is still not a marker of skill and should not be rewarded with increased PSR

[nanashi0110]

Mkv122, on 03 November 2025 - 10:34 AM, said:

I’ve always found the rating system after its rework very strange — it’s much harder to gain points than to lose them for reasons beyond your control.

But now something absolutely ridiculous has happened. And it turns out this is actually how the system works.
I was playing in an SDR-5V, which is specifically designed for base capture, and I was capturing the Base — got it up to about 80–85% before I was destroyed (and 1 kmdd). In the end, we won precisely by capturing the base.
And they DECREASE my rating. Are you guys out of your minds? I drew two enemies’ attention and secured the win (the score was 11–10).

It’s just unfair, and I’m really disappointed. You have two game modes where the objective is to capture points. You even have quirks that boost point capture.

First off... personally, I agree with your opinion.
Object rules should prioritize object involvement, and kill rules should prioritize kill scores.
I couldn't agree more on this point. I genuinely hope a new PSR system comes out.


Next, regarding the screenshot you provided.
You have zero kills. Moreover, your damage is under 500. You haven't even destroyed any components.
There's no way the arrow would point up. Because the current system doesn't consider anything besides kills and damage. (In reality, various points are added... but they're negligible.)
It's true that the rules and systems don't mesh well, but we have no choice but to adapt...

[Moadebe]

pattonesque, on 04 November 2025 - 09:22 AM, said:

I mean all that is fine but standing in a square is still not a marker of skill and should not be rewarded with increased PSR

No....just standing in a marker is NOT an indication of skill. What you do throughout the entire match is.

I agree that OP shouldn't be rewarded for JUST standing there in a square. There should be more things mixed in. But sitting there saying the objective does really nothing and shouldnt be rewarded at all is disingenuous.

Should it give more rewards for objective play? Honestly....in the game in its current state? No. It would require a balance of all of it to include it better. Which isnt going to happen in how objectives are done in the game currently.

Could we use a pass on it to better reward it and other things? Probably. But thats one of those things of "get in line...we got ALL of this other crap to fix first. Which isnt happening."

[pbiggz]

Moadebe, on 04 November 2025 - 10:11 AM, said:

No....just standing in a marker is NOT an indication of skill. What you do throughout the entire match is.

I agree that OP shouldn't be rewarded for JUST standing there in a square. There should be more things mixed in. But sitting there saying the objective does really nothing and shouldnt be rewarded at all is disingenuous.

Should it give more rewards for objective play? Honestly....in the game in its current state? No. It would require a balance of all of it to include it better. Which isnt going to happen in how objectives are done in the game currently.

Could we use a pass on it to better reward it and other things? Probably. But thats one of those things of "get in line...we got ALL of this other crap to fix first. Which isnt happening."

OP's thesis if you will, is that he thinks taking a few potshots and base capping should give him +PSR and thinks he's entitled to ignore everything else. He's not. That's all there is to it.

Edited by pbiggz, 04 November 2025 - 10:53 AM.

[pattonesque]

pbiggz, on 04 November 2025 - 10:53 AM, said:

OP's thesis if you will, is that he thinks taking a few potshots and base capping should give him +PSR and thinks he's entitled to ignore everything else. He's not. That's all there is to it.

honestly you could make the argument that focusing on capping, especially in assault, *loses* more games than it wins. Think about how often some dork makes a beeline for the square so he can proudly stand in it, and suddenly you're 11v12. That's a (usually) light which could be stabbing assaults in the back or covering your flanks or doing anything at all instead doing nothing but standing in the square. Sure, maybe they cause the enemy to break off and deal with them -- but usually they die as a result while doing negligible damage.

seriously, think of all the times one of your teammates immediately caps. are you reassured or annoyed when this happens?

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

pattonesque, on 04 November 2025 - 11:14 AM, said:

honestly you could make the argument that focusing on capping, especially in assault, *loses* more games than it wins. Think about how often some dork makes a beeline for the square so he can proudly stand in it, and suddenly you're 11v12. That's a (usually) light which could be stabbing assaults in the back or covering your flanks or doing anything at all instead doing nothing but standing in the square. Sure, maybe they cause the enemy to break off and deal with them -- but usually they die as a result while doing negligible damage.

seriously, think of all the times one of your teammates immediately caps. are you reassured or annoyed when this happens?

This is one of the most intensely aggravating things and why I consistently vote against Assault, it gets worse when they start being a pissant about it and start arguing ("iF yOu HaD aLl JuSt HeLpEd Me CaP wE wOuLd HaVe WoN hurr durr durr muh objective")

[pbiggz]

Yes, and this is specifically because the game modes are objectively bad.

Edited by pbiggz, 04 November 2025 - 11:59 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Moadebe, on 04 November 2025 - 08:33 AM, said:

Sure "kill them all then play the minigame" works alot of times...but not always. And thats the point.

I mean the point is that a significant majority of the time, kill them all then play the minigame is the optimal play. You can't/shouldn't reward people for those times that it isn't (which is typically when you've let the tickets on conquest bleed out too far, or you have some wolfpack that decided to just rush base on assault) and those times it is is often on maps that are poorly designed to encourage that fight, like conquest on Grim Plexus (which used to be notorious for cap strats) or something like assault on Crimson where the bases are so far removed from typical areas of engagements with no fast way to rotate back.

Ultimately the biggest issues in QP is just bad map design/game modes with regards to objectives, besides the obvious issue of QP being soup queue.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 04 November 2025 - 12:50 PM.

[Drenzul]

I'd agree that standing on the cap shouldn't give much PSR
But I'd also agree that PSR is way too damage orientated.

Problem is its way too difficult to make an automated system that would accurately judge PSR.
Light that distracts the entire enemy team and gets them to turn around is extremely valuable, but
may only do 100 damage.

[martian]

Mkv122, on 03 November 2025 - 02:26 PM, said:

Only your(and over "pros-player") opinion:D

Actually, the MWO lead developer too came to the conclusion that the old PSR system does not work - so they changed it in favor of the current skill-based PSR system in 2020.
So it is not only me and my opinion.

Mkv122, on 03 November 2025 - 02:26 PM, said:

Ann even in this thread I see who hated this system too

I do not know who in this thread hated the old PSR system.

But I can say with the 100% certainty who hates the current skill-based PSR system - it is you.

Mkv122, on 03 November 2025 - 02:26 PM, said:

Rating from wins is also nonsense — a player only influences the outcome about 1/12. In soccer, for example, players are primarily evaluated based on actions that lead to victory.
And yes, of course — “capturing 80% of the base” is like scoring at least one goal in a match where your team wins by two or more. Would anyone call a player like that as having played poorly? Of course not — they’re not idiots.

Maybe you do not realize it, but soccer is a completely different game with completely different game mechanics.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Drenzul, on 04 November 2025 - 01:00 PM, said:

I'd agree that standing on the cap shouldn't give much PSR
But I'd also agree that PSR is way too damage orientated.

Problem is its way too difficult to make an automated system that would accurately judge PSR.
Light that distracts the entire enemy team and gets them to turn around is extremely valuable, but
may only do 100 damage.

It's the ultimate problem, people want to feel that their actions are "validated" outside of just winning. They want that dopamine hit from some pop-up on the screen telling them they got some reward for doing a less tangible action than just doing damage, however a scoring system that tries to quantify that will always struggle to calculate those intangibles (for obvious reasons) but also a scoring system that focuses on individual actions rather than the outcome will always be flawed anyway.

WLR is ultimately the best gauge of a players value, and back when we had ELO this was born out as two of the best players in the game had the highest ELO. Mind you soup queue complicates that, but it complicates pretty much any scoring system so not really sure if there is anything that can be done about that one other than maybe ELO penalties for those in a group (with larger ones for larger groups).

[pbiggz]

the word of the day is heuristics

[Lollerisms]

The objective of a MWO match is, as the loading screen will tell you, to win, not to get 80% cap. You standing in the box does not help your team win because you're not contributing damage to enable the cap nor are you screening the capper. Not to mention, you didn't even complete the cap, so your team had to take over and kill enough enemies to enable *someone else* to complete the cap. Dealing 136 damage and standing in a box to 85% completion are not huge achievements and consequently do not warrant a significant amount of match score.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

I have no idea why he's complaining about the damn psr because square squatters tend to get the s*** kicked out of them in a lot of my games and I can't imagine that stays fun for long

[pbiggz]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 04 November 2025 - 04:34 PM, said:

I have no idea why he's complaining about the damn psr because square squatters tend to get the s*** kicked out of them in a lot of my games and I can't imagine that stays fun for long

because this game shows PSR and tier like its a reward and it confuses people who dont know better

[Moadebe]

pbiggz, on 04 November 2025 - 05:18 PM, said:

because this game shows PSR and tier like its a reward and it confuses people who dont know better

So much this....

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Dear OP: when my alt hit Tier 2 I did not in fact feel rewarded

I wait a very long time for matches on weekdays at my usual play hours (midnight-ish to 3AM CST) and I find out when I f*** around

People still get all bitchy over dumb crap, s*** their britches, ignore comms, march into the same old Mech-abattoir locations as they did before but now Reds can occasionally shoot for a damn

Ignore the f***ing stupid arrow holy s*** and toggle Hide Tier in settings

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 04 November 2025 - 07:41 PM.

[GreyNovember]

pbiggz, on 04 November 2025 - 05:18 PM, said:

because this game shows PSR and tier like its a reward and it confuses people who dont know better

The Mobile game brain is real

Not to say that PSR being presented as a reward is a GOOD idea, but I'm sincerely beginning to think that OP would play a racing game, see his time went DOWN, and then be upset because the number is smaller.

Or, see it go up, but also see a red arrow and get upset because there was a red arrow.