156 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

^ That was a very well thought out line of reasoning Strum.

Logically I believe we must accept the final three candidates in the assault class as the Zeus, Victor or Cyclops.

[Banekane]

Spheroid you left out the 4th option the Banshee it meets the timeframe, has the variants and has the hardpoints for a great assault unit and is a popular mech

[Spheroid]

Banekane, on 26 August 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Spheroid you left out the 4th option the Banshee it meets the timeframe, has the variants and has the hardpoints for a great assault unit and is a popular mech

The only good Banshee is the 3S and that would compete with the Atlas by having two additional energy hardpoints. The 5S would compete with the Atlas-K with the same hardpoint advantage as the lower tech variants. I don't see the developers pitting these two very similar mechs against each other.

[Banekane]

but if you look at some of the varrients they do have some with a ballistics hardpoint to be the craved ballistics assult

[Ashla Mason]

As others have stated, the role of Fire support mech is pretty handily covered by the Awesome, so I doubt that the mauler will be brought in to cover that area.

I'm presently leaning towards either zeus or victor, since either one would bring speed to the table (the zeus feels like a bigger dragon to be honest in terms of deign and multi-role effectiveness), though the victor would add a Jump mech to the assault bracket.

[Strum Wealh]

Banekane, on 26 August 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Spheroid you left out the 4th option the Banshee it meets the timeframe, has the variants and has the hardpoints for a great assault unit and is a popular mech

Spheroid, on 26 August 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

The only good Banshee is the 3S and that would compete with the Atlas by having two additional energy hardpoints. The 5S would compete with the Atlas-K with the same hardpoint advantage as the lower tech variants. I don't see the developers pitting these two very similar mechs against each other.

Well, the Banshee is fairly common, and actually has plenty of canon pre-3049 variants:
BNC-3E (2475) - x1 Small Laser, x1 PPC, x1 AC-5
BNC-3M (2579) - x2 Medium Lasers, x2 PPCs
BNC-3Q (2915) - x1 AC-20
BNC-3S (3026) - x2 Small Lasers, x4 Medium Lasers, x2 PPCs, x1 SRM-6, x1 AC-10
BNC-3MC (3037) - x1 Small Laser, x1 PPC, x1 AC-10
BNC-5S (3048) - x2 Small Lasers, x4 Medium Lasers, x2 ER-PPCs, x1 SRM-6, x1 Gauss Rifle

On the one hand, given that other common and less-commonly-used-in-the-video-games 'Mechs like the Trebuchet, Cicada, Cataphract, and Spider are being included, the Banshee is as good a candidate as any.
Additionally, the Banshee would fill the 95-ton slot and, in the case of the -3S and -5S, its hardpoint layout would be significantly different from that of the Atlas:
-- 8 energy hardpoints (x1 HD, x1 CT, x2 LA, x1 LT, x3 RT)
-- 1 ballistic hardpoint (LT)
-- 1 missile hardpoint (RA)

On the other hand, the number of variants that would be viable in terms of gameplay potentially becomes smaller:
-- the -3S and -5S are, in terms of hardpoints, "the same 'Mech",
-- the -3E and -3MC are likewise "the same 'Mech",
-- all but the -3M could be easily made into the -3Q, and
-- each of the -3S and -5S could be easily made into each of the -3E, -3M, and -3Q.
So, as long as one has access to a single -3S or -5S chassis, one could essentially recreate any other timeline-appropriate Banshee variant.

In essence, the Banshee, like the Highlander and Devastator, potentially becomes a "one-variant 'Mech" if either of the -3S or -5S are implemented...

Your thoughts?

[The Basilisk]

There is one important issues that wasn't given enough credit so far.
Availability.
Mauler, Highlander and other 'popular' Mechs are popular in the MW computer games.
But are not in the Battletech Universe. And since the devs are clinging to canon it will be an commonly available design.

--Mauler is Draconis combinat only. So there is only little way it turns up in independent hands at this point of the timeline.

--The Highlander is a relict of the Star Ligue. The only larger amount of Highlanders are in hands of the Comguards of Comstar.

--The Zyclops is a relict too. Its out of production for centuries and not considdered a common mech.

--The Charger isn't a commonly used design and despite the fact it is still in production the bulk of the existing Chargers are in Kuritan Hands http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger

There are three common assault mechs left for the timeframe.

--Banshee with heavy Steiner relations.
(Taking up some arguments in posts before the Banshee is a quite 'fast' assault Mech.
So it would fit the gap:
>Stalker artillerie support
>Awsome direct fire support/defense
>Atlas assault/attack
>Banshee maneuverbility/recon
)
--Zeus maybe too much Steiner
--Victor with VC and Kurita relations.

Or it will be no assault mech.
Orion may be the right guess.
Its an old widespread and common design.

Edited by The Basilisk, 27 August 2012 - 04:15 AM.

[Suprentus]

The Basilisk, on 27 August 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

--Mauler is Draconis combinat only. So there is only little way it turns up in independent hands at this point of the timeline.

So is the Dragon; that's available to everyone, so I don't think we can factor house availability as a predictor. Still though, I don't see the Mauler as a possibility because of the lack of variants.

The Basilisk, on 27 August 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

--The Zyclops is a relict too. Its out of production for centuries and not considdered a common mech.

Are you sure about that? The Cyclops is about as old as the Atlas, and has at least one recently produced variant.

The Basilisk, on 27 August 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

--The Charger isn't a commonly used design and despite the fact it is still in production the bulk of the existing Chargers are in Kuritan Hands http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger

Again though, same with the Dragon.

Personally, I think the Cyclops is the most likely candidate, especially considering the focus on Role Warfare in this game (the Cyclops is notable for being a commander's mech). I could be wrong though, both in my facts and my speculation.

The Basilisk, on 27 August 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Or it will be no assault mech.
Orion may be the right guess.
Its an old widespread and common design.

I don't see that happening. We have 4 lights, 4 mediums, 4 heavies, but only 3 assaults. I'd imagine they'd even out the Assault class with one more so that everyone has just as many choices no matter what class they want to choose. To me, that makes much more sense from a design standpoint.

Edited by Suprentus, 27 August 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Banekane]

i got to agree on the class level out system

as said there is 4 of each except the assault and so with the balancing the next added will defiantly be a Assault just we got to wait for to see what it is guessing wont lead to happiness and those hopping for a specific will just be disappointed just got to wait and see the devs promise it will be a very special reveal we just got to wait and see what comes out

[Strum Wealh]

Suprentus, on 27 August 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

I don't see that happening. We have 4 lights, 4 mediums, 4 heavies, but only 3 assaults. I'd imagine they'd even out the Assault class with one more so that everyone has just as many choices no matter what class they want to choose. To me, that makes much more sense from a design standpoint.

Actually, I could see a case where they decide to make Mech 16 a Medium.

"Medium 'Mechs are the workhorse 'Mechs of most armies. Weighing between 40 and 55 tons they naturally fall somewhere in between the agile light 'Mechs and the powerfully armed heavy 'Mechs. While matching neither in their respective niche, medium 'Mechs tend to have the best combination between speed, armor, and payload which gives them unmatched versatility."

versus

"Assault 'Mechs are typically used as command units, heavy assault platforms, and in fire-support roles, but due to their prohibitive costs and limited production, they actually make up only a small fraction of all BattleMechs."

Given that the Devs seem to be consciously-aware of how the "race to the biggest 'Mech/gun" mentality was prevalent in other games and seem to want to avoid having it become the dominant school of thought in MWO, I could imagine that they could consider putting out a few more Light and Medium 'Mechs than Heavies and Assaults to (somewhat subtly) promote greater use of those classes.
For example, a 4-5-4-3 or 4-6-4-3 or even 6-5-4-3 distribution wouldn't really be unthinkable...

Your thoughts?

[Suprentus]

Strum Wealh, on 27 August 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Actually, I could see a case where they decide to make Mech 16 a Medium.

"Medium 'Mechs are the workhorse 'Mechs of most armies. Weighing between 40 and 55 tons they naturally fall somewhere in between the agile light 'Mechs and the powerfully armed heavy 'Mechs. While matching neither in their respective niche, medium 'Mechs tend to have the best combination between speed, armor, and payload which gives them unmatched versatility."

versus

"Assault 'Mechs are typically used as command units, heavy assault platforms, and in fire-support roles, but due to their prohibitive costs and limited production, they actually make up only a small fraction of all BattleMechs."

Given that the Devs seem to be consciously-aware of how the "race to the biggest 'Mech/gun" mentality was prevalent in other games and seem to want to avoid having it become the dominant school of thought in MWO, I could imagine that they could consider putting out a few more Light and Medium 'Mechs than Heavies and Assaults to (somewhat subtly) promote greater use of those classes.
For example, a 4-5-4-3 or 4-6-4-3 or even 6-5-4-3 distribution wouldn't really be unthinkable...

Your thoughts?

Perhaps, but the way I see it is that they'd want each class to be just as viable as any other. With that sort of equal consideration, I could more see them equaling out the lineup of each class. We've seen this mentality also with the Founder's Pack offering 1 Founder's Mech of each class, so I would speculate they intend to have the entire lineup like that.

That's not to discredit your point, though; it seems like it could go either way. I can't speak for PGI, so I can only try to guess their patterns myself.

Edited by Suprentus, 27 August 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[The Basilisk]

Suprentus, on 27 August 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Are you sure about that? The Cyclops is about as old as the Atlas, and has at least one recently produced variant.....

[...]

Personally, I think the Cyclops is the most likely candidate, especially considering the focus on Role Warfare in this game (the Cyclops is notable for being a commander's mech). I could be wrong though, both in my facts and my speculation.

You're right saying the Dragon is a Mech only produced by Luthien Armor Works. One may argue that because its an old design many Dragons may be leaked into other hands through salvage but this is valid as well for the Charger.
The Mauler in contrary is a pretty new design.
And regarding the Cyclops its newest Variant at this point of the timeline is a modification not a production line.
Last Information I knew of was all Stormvanger Assemblies, Unlimited Factorys were destroyed during the Succession Wars.
And Grumium Creations took up the Production after the Battle of Tukayyid and after the loss of Terra to Blakes Word.

[Odanan]

So, it won't be the Highlander - extinct, no variations, too similar to the Atlas.
So, it won't be the Mauler - too faction restricted, no variations, same role as Awesome/Stalker.
So, it won't be the Banshee - few real variants, same role of the Atlas.
So, it won't be the Cyclops - rare.
So, it won't be the Zeus - just a faster, downgraded Atlas.
So, it won't be the Charger - because it's useless.

So it will be the Victor:
- "Fast" assault (we don't have);
- Jumping assault (we don't have);
- Ballistics based assault (we don't have) - if they put 2 ballistic hardpoints in the AC/20 arm, there are variants with 3 and 4 ballistics hardpoints.
- not uncommon, produced in Davion (latter in Kurita) and in St. Ives.

[Banekane]

interestingly enough i kinda agree with the victor as a strong candidate as well a little known fact the Victor was modeled and designed by Victor Davion pre Fed Com so the Victor also qualifies with the timeframe

[Garth Erlam]

It'll be an UrbanMech and we all know it

[Adridos]

Garth Erlam, on 28 August 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

It'll be an UrbanMech and we all know it

garth, don't ruin it for us. Once you tell something like that, you can bet the whole Las Vegas on the opposite answer.

[Dymitry]

Garth Erlam, on 28 August 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

It'll be an UrbanMech and we all know it

If it is not, although I am a fan of your work and posts, you will gain my hate, sir...

URBANMECH POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Strum Wealh]

So, we know that 'Mech 16 is being withheld for marketing purposes. Hmmm...
It sounds as though it would be something they would expect - and hope - to send massive ripples of awe through the MWO playerbase (and the press).
IMO, the 'Mechs that could maximize that effect are few and far between.

Given that, here are a few new guesses on my part:

• An Assault-class IS Unseen/Reseen - specifically, the BattleMaster (pretty much the icon of CBT right now, as it is featured priminently on the covers of Total Warfare and TechManual, the box art of the CBT Introductory Box Set, and the current CBT logo) or Longbow or Marauder II
  
• One of the more-popular, non-Assault-class IS Unseen/Reseen - specifically, a Marauder or Warhammer (arguably featured on the cover of the 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set... though, I think it looks more like a Hammerhands than a Warhammer ) or Shadow Hawk
  
• A Wolfhound, presented with grainy pictures/footage along with one or more "alien-looking, powerful, and as-yet-unknown 'Mechs"
  
• The ever-popular UrbanMech

Your thoughts?

[Banekane]

well seeing how adamant Garth is on the slowest light mech in the universe the way things are going i say we should not worry what it is or isnt and just get the surprise when the reveal is made as we all know surprise is the key to victory

[Aaydin]

I've posted before why I think it will be the Annihilator. It fits the assault class spot, existed in the timeline, gives us a ballistic filled chassis, and makes use of the LB-10x, which isn't on any other mech by default, and would also rival the Atlas.