122 replies to this topic

[Stone Profit]

So, I was thinking, In MW 4 mechs had more ammunition per ton than they would in the TT game, something like double or more. Are they going to do that in MWO? or is 20 shots for your AC/5 enough? and what about mixed ammunition, like 1 ton standard AC ammo and 1 ton cluster for LBX autocannon and you can switch? or are we gonna be stuck with cluster ammo if we want an LBX like we were in MW 4? and selective rate of fire for ultras. Does this even matter to anyone like it does to me? just seems like one of the thinks that would make the game more in depth and realistic IMO

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I would hope that we would get the choice of slug or shot for LBX. Ultra's wont be in. If they include ammo explosions people will want to add Case. As for ammo numbers - they've said they want to stick to canon where posssible.

[Threat Doc]

Stick with the tabletop. If folks do not use their ammunition with a frugal mentality, they end up fighting with lasers only or bumping into people. Besides, people ran out of ammo all the time in MW4, anyway, so it doesn't matter. Make people think and act like Warriors rather than apes with joysticks. Sorry to sound so harsh, and it's not how it sounds in my own head, but if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but if you teach him to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime. Thus, I think the rules should stick as close as possible to tabletop, as our hosts have explained they're attemtpting to do, without 'sacrificing fun'.

I forget, was CASE available in '49?

Edited by Kay Wolf, 03 January 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Kargush]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I would hope that we would get the choice of slug or shot for LBX. Ultra's wont be in. If they include ammo explosions people will want to add Case. As for ammo numbers - they've said they want to stick to canon where posssible.

According to my TechManual, we'll have LBX10s and UAC5s in addition to the normal ACs.

EDIT: And CASE was reintroduced by the Combine in 3036.

Edited by kargush, 03 January 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

The Combine at least had CASE, not sure about other factions.

[Stone Profit]

kargush, on 03 January 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

According to my TechManual, we'll have LBX10s and UAC5s in addition to the normal ACs.

EDIT: And CASE was reintroduced by the Combine in 3036.

yes, but that doesnt mean we will be able to select what kind of ammo we use on each shot. MW4 you didnt pick, if you had LBX AC then it was always cluster, and ultras were always doubletaps

I definitly am okay with canon ammo loads, just wanted others opinions. pick your shots, or pick up the pieces of your mech.

Also, do you think they will include the minimum range rule for PPCs and other long range weapons?

[VYCanis]

canon ammo loads depend entirely upon what the rates of fire are going to be, and how much you want to divide up that damage to prevent how really easy it was to core out enemies with a single ac20 strike.

Remember, TT-wise 1 ton of ammo for an ac20 was technically enough to last for 5 turns or 50 seconds worth of combat where you are consistently using that weapon.

However in real time 5 shots at any decent ROF are gone in no time at all.

And considering the atlas's ac20 in the trailer, and how most BT ACs are described as firing multiple shots per ammo unit, it would make sense that AC ammo counts are adjusted accordingly, rather than taken painfully literally.

Edited by VYCanis, 03 January 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[KingCobra]

Well we were playing stock catapults on gameranger the other night 2lrm15,4lasers,jumpjets and to our surprise we ran out of LRM ammo so fast is was scary and without the catapults 2 main weapons we were getting creamed by the 6 bots we were fighting in TD.Us=6catapultsvs6bots.So i would say hey i would trade in the 2 small lasers for just 2 more tons of LRM ammo or less armor for more ammo.I hope we can have exleast the chance to swap out a few things in favor of ammo nomater which weapons were using.

You all are more than welcome to join us on
http://www.gameranger.com/ to test out any configs TRO TTor just practice till MW:O comes out.

For all you on these forums that still have any of these mech games come online to http://www.gameranger.com[/color] and lets play.

StarSeige
Total annihilation
Supreme commander
MechCommander
MechCommander gold
MechCommander 2
Mechwarrior 3
Mechwarrior 3 Pirates Moon
Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance
Mechwarrior 4 BlackKnight
Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries retail pr0
Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries retail pr1
Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries Mektek free mod version


I dont know if all of the people on this forum know where to play there old Mech type games but here it is
www.gameranger.com it is a simple version of the old MSN gamming zone.You can play MechCommander,MechCommander2,Mechwarrior3,Mechwarrior3 PiratesMoon,Mechwarrior4Vengeance,Mechwarrior4BlackKnight,Mechwarrior4Mercinaries,
Mechwarrior4MercinariesPR1,and the Mechwarrior4Mercenaries Free Mektek version also.

Here are the instructions to get the Mektek Free version to work on GameRanger

First go to gameranger.com download client and make account.The activation email will sometimes come in a junk folder.Activate your account and startup gameranger.
Visit www.mektek.net[/ and download a free copy of Mechwarrior Mercinaries through the MTX or torrunt programs update it to version 3.1/30a-30c
Next go to your hardrive where your free copy of the Mektek mercinaries is installed(C:D:ECT\programfiles\mektek.net folder).
Next rename the folder(mektek.net)folder to (Mektek) delete the (.net).
Next go inside the newly renamed (mektek) folder and find the folder(Mercenaries-Mektek Mekpack)
Next rename the folder (Mercenaries-Mektek Mekpack) to (MercenariesMektek)all one word then go back to GameRanger on the gameranger bronze page go to edit then options find the game Mechwarrior Mercinaries on the games tab highlight it on list then hit the brows tab to open it point your link to your new C:\program files\mektek\MercinariesMektek\MW4mercs.exe
thats it now you can play on gameranger.

I would hope to see more of you on gameranger to let the community know where still here and ready to play MWO when it comes out.So dust off those old CD'S and lets rumble.IF no old cd's go to Mektek and grab the MTX downloader or torrents and install the free mercs version.

Edited by KingCobra, 03 January 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i'm really hoping the ammo sticks to canon and that you are required 1 ton of ammo per weapon and not able to run 10 machine guns off 1 ton. thats an engineering nightmare.

[ice trey]

I've personally always thought that the Battletech ammo bins were just fine. The issue was that in Mechwarrior 4, they boosted the 'bin size because in single player, you were expected to almost single-handedly* go about trashing two to four times the number of 'mechs and vehicles that you would bring in a given level. When the AI team mates were as bad as they were, frequently getting lost among buildings or simply getting stuck in a stationary position out in the middle of nowhere, you had to be able to reliably take out EVERY OTHER MECH on the field.

But with MWO being an online game, I think the expectation is that your 'mech operates on something closer to a 1:1 kill rate, and there is intended to be more teamwork between yourself and your team mates. With that, lower ammo per ton is less of an issue. Sure, you might want to take an extra ton or two of ammo for those weapons you plan on relying on, but I can't see it being a problem to have 20 rounds of AC5 ammo unless MWO starts making AC5s fire at the same rate of fire as in MW4 - another thing that MWO had tweaked.

Also, I'm hoping they bring the Ammo Explosion back. That would be good reason to not want to stock up on too much ammo, lest you end up bringing a walking firecracker into the field like an Orion or Cyclops.

[Stormwolf]

Geist Null, on 03 January 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

i'm really hoping the ammo sticks to canon and that you are required 1 ton of ammo per weapon and not able to run 10 machine guns off 1 ton. thats an engineering nightmare.

You are not required to stick to 1 ton of ammo per weapon in the canon, the Thug THG-10E has only 1 ton of SRM ammo for both launchers for instance.

Edited by Stormwolf, 03 January 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Volume]

I want all sorts of shots for each weapon, and I hope we can switch what's loaded in the field (maybe the one feature in World of Tanks that I also want this game to have). I'm not sure exactly how inferno/thunder/swarm LRMs will work, and I doubt MMLs will ever be in the game, but different kinds of AC ammo is a MUST.

[Dlardrageth]

Considering the whole "customization" issue I'd expect to stick with the BT TT values. Want more ammo? Okay... free up some space. Basically if player's choice cannot really hurt, let them have it. Interesting question will be, if we will be able to allot full only, or also half ton-slots to ammo. Sure, does perhaps not matter all that much on a 95-ton assault Mech, but on a 25-ton light one...

[Datum]

VYCanis, on 03 January 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

canon ammo loads depend entirely upon what the rates of fire are going to be, and how much you want to divide up that damage to prevent how really easy it was to core out enemies with a single ac20 strike.

Remember, TT-wise 1 ton of ammo for an ac20 was technically enough to last for 5 turns or 50 seconds worth of combat where you are consistently using that weapon.

However in real time 5 shots at any decent ROF are gone in no time at all.

And considering the atlas's ac20 in the trailer, and how most BT ACs are described as firing multiple shots per ammo unit, it would make sense that AC ammo counts are adjusted accordingly, rather than taken painfully literally.

Basically this.
50 seconds of firing for 1 ton of ammo is plenty good for an AC-20, and makes sense. In MW2 they took it way too literally and effectively made autocannons useless without a good 6 tons of ammo.
Missiles are just fine, however.

Edited by Datum, 03 January 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[Fresh Meat]

I really hope that we are able to adjust our ammo capacity, given available tonnage. Players should be able to adjust their load out based on preferred play style, adding ammo creates a deficit somewhere else. If they want to gamble with a build that may be over specialized that is OK with me. It all depends on how the devs. handle the mech lab.

[Felbombling]

I almost think they need to up some of the ammunition loads per ton if they are forced to tinker with armour values to make the sim more computer friendly. Would be a bummer to wait ten mins for a game, only to have it end in thirty seconds. Ammunition expenditure will be interesting to see as far as rate of fire goes, at any rate.

[EDMW CSN]

I found MW3 handling ACs and their loads pretty adequately. While not the boom I pull AC-20 trigger and ya dead in 2 seconds MW2 fast but fast enough to still rattle players and the damage was terrifying enough.

[Liam]

Even in TT gaussrifle ammunition weights a bit to much. 8 round and you are out of ammo.
It should be balanced by damage scaling, armor, armor penetration and critical hit ratio.

From realistic point of view round numbers would be limited by space and not by weight.
~ 25 kg / round for AC10 < 40 rounds
~ 30 kg / round for AC20 < 33 rounds

Gauss rifle: at ~ 10 MJ and 3 km/s of v_0 one gauss projectile would weight about ~ 2.25 kg.
So even with shell (call it preacceleration shell) it would weight < 20 kg.

LRM is another story.

[Adridos]

I would like a compromise. Not havig too little ammo to just shoot the gun twice and then stick with your lasers, but not that much ammo, so you can fire for days and still have something.

[Dlardrageth]

The "ammo limit" has to be somewhere where it is still meaningful how much space/tonnage you commit for ammo. Having no ammo concerns at all is a bit silly, goes against the basics of the game. Being too restrictive turns anything but energy weapons pretty meh. That means some balancing with an eye on how much space/tonnage you need to invest for heatsinks for a comparable energy weapon becomes important.

Good balance is probably if you really have to think hard for two minutes if you want to spend an extra ton on more Gauss/AC ammo.