583 replies to this topic

[flessar]

Google Translate always lies.

I like the FRR because we get first crack at those clanners. And we kicked lots of DCMS *** too, I like kicking their tails.

[Karlax]

From what I've read of all of these factions, FRR is my first and only logical choice. I have never played a proper Battletech game before, but I cannot wait to wade into the thick of it with you guys. As KillBox posted before me, my life for the Republic.

[Grimm Wulf]

Dihm, on 11 December 2011 - 07:25 AM, said:

I got hooked after being assigned to the Rasalhague Military District's 22nd Regulars in MPBT:Solaris. I went in and read all about the RMD and realized what jerks the Combine were to a people I quite liked. The tragic situation of them finally getting their freedom after centuries of oppression, only to be engulfed by the attacking clans appealed to me.

So really, what your saying, is that you like to see the enemies crush your people, to see your people driven befor your enemies, and to hear the lamentation of your women?

I kid... i kid...

None the less though, the tragic fate of these people does give them a whole lot more meat on their bones, and I don't know... credibility and what ever else one might call it. It seem to gives them more character (not the moral kind), qualities, traits and what not, then most other factions out there.

But maybe it's just me. That I have maybe missed or not looked hard enough on the other factions (especialy the other IS factions, the Claners are pretty simple to see their specific uniqueness as a whole though, not looked to deep into the uniqueness of each particular clan though) to find these extra qualities that make them each unique.

Anyway... I am just glad that things atleast seem to have worked out in the people of FRR in the end. The whole thing with the Clan Ghost Bear, and leading into the Rasalhague Dominion and all.

Dihm, on 11 December 2011 - 07:25 AM, said:

Oh, question Mr. Swede, how do you say Dragonslayers? I think Google Translate is lying to me.

Here is an unusually long, unnecessary long really, explenation to all of this... I could have just gone all the way to the end and not writen all of the crap in between, but hey... I write to much, more often then not... So why stop now, especially since I can't help my self. And maybe you might find it somewhat interesting anyway. So...

Hmmm... I do use Google Translate a lot and it usualy works fine for me... but it can be fickle. *goes to Google Translate to see just how it is translating it*

Weired, it's translating "Dragonslayer" to.... "Dragonslayer"... yeah that's compleatly wrong... I also tried "dragon slayer", which churned out "dragon slayer", again wrong, clearly.

So I tried just "dragon" which turned out as "drake", which is correct, or rather a correct answer. I then tried "slayer" which turned out as "slayer" which is wrong again, but it did put an option below saying "Baneman" which is a correct answer. Bane in swedish usualy refers to death. "Man" can pretty much be used the same in Swedish as in English (male, humans, husband, etc). Baneman is a bit of an older word, which is not a bad thing though, to my Swedish ears "baneman" sounds pretty darn cool. It usualy refers to a persons killer/murderer, and is usualy used in a more poetic sence these days.

I think I sort of know the inherent problem here, why GT might not be churning out a correct answer.

If you take the word "Dragon" from the english language for example. You guys pretty much have 2 versions of it: "Dragon" which is the base, and "Dragons" to represent more then 1. And it's pretty much the same for most, if not all words of this nature in English. These two versions (with or without an s at the end) will work in almost every single type of occation and combination etc. So if you want to tell someone that your good at killing dragons you put together dragon with slayer, and you get Dragonslayer/Dragon Slayer.

In Swedish it's not that simple. If we take the example of Dragon again.

In Swedish the base word for Dragon is "Drake". But in Swedish "Drake" can only really be used as an... what to call it... "unspecific singular" maybe... so "A dragon", "One dragon", or simmilar. The "specific singular" of the word, the "The/that dragon" in english, would be "Draken" in Swedish. We tend to add "en" at the end of words to indicate that is is a specific one of that thing. But since Drake already have an e, we only add the n. Because it would most likely be pronounced compleatly different with 2 e's, "Drake-en". We dont have that many words with double vowels in the Swedish language, and almost all of them does a double pronounciation of the vowel. Like the word "seende" (the present tense, participle, of vision/sight/seeing) is pronounced "se-ende", first e being a long e, and the second e being a short e (due to there being two consonants directly after it). Anyway... Then you have the plural versions of Drake of course. Unspecific plural, "Dragons", would be "Drakar". Specific plural, "those dragons", is "Drakarna".

So you might now think "Ok, four different versions depending on situation... not that bad, just double what we have. It could be worse after all." Actually... it is... Depending on the words there is either 0 or 1 more versions, and on a few occations more then that. Depending on what type of word it is, where in the combined word it is used, how long it is, etc, it can be either a short version or a version with additional defining letters added. In the case of Drake, it has a 5th version, which is "Drak". Sicne Drake is going to be the starting word, using the "e" in combined words does not flow right when said (Swedish in general is a pretty flowing language... at least it seems to be to me, more flowing then most other languages... granted, can depend on regional dialects as well).

So, because Swedish has several different versions of many words depending on situation and usage, it can mess with GT's translation system... especialy if nobody has suggested a correct version to it. This is one of those cases.


Anyway... to the problem at hand... Swedish word for "Dragonslayer". We could of course try and use the above mentioned "baneman", so Drakbaneman... it's allright but it's a bit to unweildy to say, the flow of it is just a bit off. Baneman is one of those words that is basicly ment to be used by it's self, and not directly connected to another word. It's not that it's wrong connecting them though. Because Swedish is one of those languages where it is really easy to make compound words, and of an almost unending length as well if you wish.

The next word we could try and use would be one of the versions from the base word for "dead/death" in Swedish, "död". The version I am thinking of is "dödare" (it's how ever mainly a compound word specific vesions, not used by it's self)... so put together it creats "Drakdödare", which sounds pretty cool. It is a pretty normal thing to do, to put "dödare" after a certain thing or animal etc, to indicate that this person is known for killing this particular thing. It is a good version... but I think it is a bit to... simple of a version. "Dödare" can certanly be translated to "slayer", but the main translation to english is mainly "killer". And I am certain you agree that "Dragonkiller" does not sound as epic as "Dragonslayer" does... no?

So I keeped thinking about it. and it suddenly hit me. There is an older Swedish word that is not often used anymore, not in regular modern day conversations anyway. "Dödare" is of course also old as well, most words are, but it's one of those timeless words that never sounds "old". This word how ever does sound old, usualy only seen or heard in stuff that takes place in older times or in fantasy etc (and I used it a lot during the past 16 years of having played Swedish pen and paper fanytasy RPG's with my friends). It also sounds more menacing in Swedish then "dödare", just like slayer sounds more menacing then killer in English.

The word I am thinking about is "Dräpare", which would create "Drakdräpare". And in fact... the main English word "dräpare" is translated to, is slayer... so it works perfecly. And, unlike "dödare", Dräpare is also a word that can work on it's own, does not need to be in a compound word to be usable. "Dräpare" comes from the base of "Dräpa" which basicly means "to slay" or "to kill", usualy connected with some kind of hand held weaponry in battle or combat (I asume melee really, but I guess ranged combat might also apply, but to me my vision tends to be of melee combat).

There are of course different versions of it depending on if it's singular or plural, and unspecific or specific. So here below they are:

Drakdräpare (Unspecific singular: "he/she/it/someone/something/etc is a Dragonslayer")
Drakdräparen (Specific singular: "the Dragonslayer")
Drakdräpare (Unspecific plural: "they are Dragonslayers", and yes, same as unspecific singular, some words don't change version)
Drakdräparna (Specific plural: "those Dragonslayers")


Due to some of what you have read above, showes you the reason why I have a huge problem with that FRR's army is called "KungsArmé". Because it is not the proper inflection! This particular inflection, "KungsArmé", suggests "A KingsArmy". As in one out of many KingsArmies around, it's the unspecific singular they have used. The correct inflection of it would be "KungsArmén", to indicate that is it "The KingsArmy", the specific singular one. And really, if they wanted to properly indicate that it was one out of many, they should have used either "KungsArméer" ("KingsArmies", unspecific plural), or "KungsArméerna" ("The KingsArmies", specific plural). /mini rant

/post... no really... it ends here... there is no more... it's long enough as it is... do you not agree?

Edited by Grimm Wulf, 12 December 2011 - 01:29 AM.

[Drogo-MA]

We of House Davion are always strong supporters of those who wish to fight back against tyranny and oppression at the hands of the Draconis Combine. Though we are not at this time able to lend a hand in that fight, we of the AFFS would like to lend our support to everyone in the FRR through our members of Comstar and our representatives in the Legislature.

(Not bad for a guy who never took politics eh?)

[Dihm]

Okay Grimm, that was amazing. I didn't expect to enjoy the book you wrote.

So, for a merc unit, it sounds like Drakdräparna would be the word to go with, THE Dragonslayers? Instead of "one of possibly many Dragonslayers", Drakdräpare? Much like how it should be KungsArméN?

Side note, I found couple of fun Norse words:

• Skjaldborg - Shield wall
  
• Svinfylking - Swine Array or Boar's Snout, the specific type of shield wall formation used by the vikingr. Swine Array, now THERE'S a name for a merc unit.

Edited by Dihm, 12 December 2011 - 04:42 AM.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

Dihm, if you're a reader check out Bernard Cornwell. He has a series called the Saxon Tales which focuses on the Danish occupation of England at the end of the first millenium. Lots of cool history and words/phrases that you could use.

[Dihm]

Already ahead of you on that one, I have quite a few Cornwell series.

I think a new one in the Saxon Tales just came out.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I was already mildly obsessed with vikings/early Scandanavians but that series has put me over the edge. Another part of the reason I'm going FRR.

[Grimm Wulf]

Dihm, on 12 December 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

Okay Grimm, that was amazing. I didn't expect to enjoy the book you wrote. So, for a merc unit, it sounds like Drakdräparna would be the word to go with, THE Dragonslayers? Instead of "one of possibly many Dragonslayers", Drakdräpare? Much like how it should be KungsArméN? Side note, I found couple of fun Norse words:

• Skjaldborg - Shield wall
  
• Svinfylking - Swine Array or Boar's Snout, the specific type of shield wall formation used by the vikingr. Swine Array, now THERE'S a name for a merc unit.

Heh... most people would probably rage-quit reading my posts due to their size... XD

But yeah... to use "Drakdräparna" as the name for a Merc unit would indicate that it is a specific group of people, and as you wondered it would be "The Dragonslayers" in English. And your right about "Drakdräpare" as well. The difference between the two would basicly be "they are the Dragonslayers" vs "they are dragonslayers".

To put the personal aspect in on this. A person who is a dragonslayer would say "I am a D/drakdräpare". A person who is a member of a group with that name could use the same as well (it's sort of partly based on if the person asumes that others know there is a group called that), or if he wants to be really specific say "I am a member of (the) Drakdräparna".

As for Skjaldborg and Svinfylking.

I think I have heard Skjald befor, but that is a really old name for shield. Must have gone out of use back in like... 12-13th century when "old swedish" came about. Current Swedish word for shield is "Sköld".

Borg is still used to this day... but it does not mean "wall". Borg is the Swedish word for "fortress". So Skjaldborg litteraly means "shield fortress". In todays swedish the word for shieldwall is "Sköldmur". Mur is never used when you talk about walls for a normal building though, a mur almost always refers to a defensive wall structure (no roof for one thing). For a regular wall we use "vägg".

Skjaldborg could maybe be the name of the headquaters, home fortress, or something simmilar, for this particular Merc corp your thinking about.

"Svi.n" (*gaahs at the forums language filter* remove the . in the word *), is translated to "swine", "hog", or "pig" ("gris" is our normal word for a pig). Today there are two main uses off that word. "Vildsvin" which means "wild swine", which is what we call wild boars. Secondly it's often used by women when talking about or to men that behave badly... like if they cheated on the woman or something. So I guess simmilar to how "pig" is used in the English language. "Gris" (pig) in Swedish when talking about a person though, is someone who is really dirty, or looks like they ate with their whole face... like a baby for example. It's more of a humerous thing to say compared to the English one.

Fylking, again an older word. Specificly refers to the V-shape of a battle formation. It is also today what we call it when birds fly in that V-shape pattern.

Most well known Fylking in Sweden though is a guy in his mid 60's named Gert Gylking. He is an actor, journalist, radio-host (his current main job), and was even a politician for some time. The easiest way to describe him would be to say that, in Sweden, he is probably the original griefer, troller, For teh lulz, aggrivating person, who has no problem with saying exacly what he thinks, no matter if it get's him into trouble or not, and especialy on live tv if he can... and all this befor there even was an internet... He is also well known for wearing a pink tracksuit pretty often (often combined with some of his "I am trying to be funny at other peoples expence" thing). Back in 2000 he got into trouble because during the Nobel Price in Literature ceremony thingy, when the winner was announced, he loudly proclaimed "Äntligen" ("Finally")... and he did it a few more times. And his reason for doing this? To show just how ironic it is that almost all of the people who have won the Nobel Price in literature are pretty much compleatly unknown to the majority of the world. In 2002 he had to sneak in in disguise to be able to do it, this got him officialy and permanently banned from the event. But it had already started a trend, where other peoples took up the torch and started doing it as well.

To FINALLY end this post... I will add the first qoute that I found googling (or well... atleast the first one that was not "to dirty" to post on this forum ) that Gert Fylking has said.

"Damfotboll är som V75 med kossor."

which basicly means:

"Womens football (soccer) is like Horse Racing with heifers/cows."

Edited by Grimm Wulf, 12 December 2011 - 11:35 AM.

[Dihm]

I'm going to whip up some unit insignias for the fun of it using this newfound knowledge. I've already got an idea for the shieldwall, and have done a really crappy one for the Dragonslayers.

I'm just the idea man, I think someone else needs to make them look better than child-level.

Edit: Oh, so a thought... Skjaldborg/Sköldmur refers more to an inanimate object, not a group of people in a battle formation eh?

Edit2:Blue sky is the color of FRR, green fields for the fertile planets that are now free or something equally corny, that dragon's head is taken from the Kurita insignia, and a nice double bladed axe buried in it. Just rough shapes so far, the blood should look like it's flowing from the neck better, yadda yadda yadda. But here you go, Drakdräparna!

Edited by Dihm, 12 December 2011 - 11:56 AM.

[Jagermeister2]

Go Space Vikings! Wonder if they'll let us fight the Dracs at all before the Clans show up...

[VEDRFOLNIR]

Grimm Wulf, I've gotta echo Dihm here - your posts are informative and fun to read, so thanks for sharing with us!

I've always had a fascination with Scandinavian history, both during the Viking era and the events of World War 2. Heck, I've still got a book on Scandanavia from Time Life books dated 1960, which has been wonderful for research purposes. When I first started playing BattleTech back in '87, it just seemed natural that I'd go with a Nordic theme. When I first picked up the House Steiner sourcebook (in '88 I think), I was hoping to see that sort of 'flavor' in the text. Unfortunately, I didn't find it. Between the leader being called an 'Archon' to the Lyran parliament being called the 'Estates-General' I was pretty disappointed.

Then I picked up the 20 Year Update in '90 (I think) and wow! There was the FRR in all its' Scandinavian glory! I was hooked from that day forward. When the 3050 Update came along, I dumped my Banshee and became a proud Raven pilot - the symbolism was too cool to ignore, even though its' a Capellan design. I did some research on Norse lore, and found mention of Veðrfölnir, the hawk that sits between the eyes of an Eagle in the World Tree. The concept appealed to me so Veðrfölnir became my 'mech's callsign.

My love for the Republic has endured to the present day. I was pretty horrified to see 90% of the Republic snatched up by the Clans, and didn't appreciate how the Republic was all-but-ignored by the novels (after the Blood of Kerensky novels anyway), but I thought the lore-writers actually did a pretty cool thing by moving the Ghost Bears into their OZ, eventually becoming the Rasalhague Dominion.

My hope is that when MWO releases, I'll have the chance to pilot my Raven again, with my hula girl (with viking helmet accessory, of course) in the cockpit.

PS: Yes, those dates are correct. Yes, I am that old.

Edited by VEDRFOLNIR, 12 December 2011 - 02:14 PM.

[Vincent Vascaul]

I'm in for the FRR none of the other major factions really appeal to me.

[Diablo48]

I must say I also enjoy reading your posts Grimm Wulf. They provide a lot of great information and are very interesting to read even if I do not have any special interest in the topic or the discussion.

[Dihm]

Okay, so, making that insignia got my mind a whirl about a Merc Unit using these names. Since the 3rd Drakons may be locked out by the system for the faction, this may become something real, lol.


The unit would be (the?) Skjaldborg, the Shieldwall of Rasalhague.

(that's supposed to be overlapped shields out on a battlefield, a shield showing each of the major companies within the unit)

Beneath it, there'd have various companies.

The 1st Skjaldborg would be the Huscarls. The meat and potatoes of the merc unit. Well rounded and varied in the mechs and contracts it takes. This is the shield on the left, the crossed axes. Just using that as a placeholder. Below this unit there could have units/lances like "Loki's Chosen/Sons", "Thor's Hammer" (cliche or what?), whatever the Lance Leader would like.


The 2nd Skjaldborg would be Drakdräparna, the Dragonslayers. Specialize in lightning raids into Kurita space.


The 3rd Skjaldborg would be the Svinfylking, the Boar's Snout/Swine Array. Specialize in shock attacks with heavy/assault mechs. Smash the enemy, get in close to brawl.


Command group/lance would be the Thegns, something of the sort. Just rough concepts on the artwork here (not my specialty!), don't judge me too harshly.

Edited by Dihm, 13 December 2011 - 06:50 AM.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

This is a pretty awesome setup. BTW - Thor's Hammer = Mjolnir.

[Dihm]

Yeah, it's just such a common "Hey look I'm Norse!!" thing.

[Dihm]

Went back and adjusted the colors a bit on the various battalions/companies, so that they were more distinct from the "field" of the main unit.

Ended up having the blues still very similar on accident, lol. Made the Dragonslayer's more "night/raid" themed, threw some stars in there too. Now, we just need someone who is actually good at this to take the concept art further.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I still want to see more of the pros/cons of running Faction versus Merc and whether or not they allow Faction players to create Faction units. If it looks like the Faction route will be viable for what you want out of the game and they allowed custom Faction units would you make the Skjaldborg a Rasalhague regiment? I wouldn't be opposed to going the Merc route but I just think it'd be more fun (for me) to rep the FRR.

[Dihm]

I'd PREFER to be a faction unit. Unfortunately, I think you won't have much/any control if you go that route, and they are setting up the Merc Units to be the "hardcore" groups. With my MPBT background, I really want to have a rank structure that means something (have to be promoted by peers/ranks above you, based on merit and desire to lead others) instead of grinding out Loyalty Points, and be able to organize easily into dedicated companies/lances. We'll hopefully know more after the Q&A.

I should note, even if those in the 3rd end up going "Merc", we will only fight/take contracts for the FRR.

Edited by Dihm, 13 December 2011 - 07:19 AM.