132 replies to this topic

[Amarus Cameron]

Thorn Hallis, on 10 January 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Uhm...after a mysterious blight struck virtually the entire crop on Londerholm, the merchants petitioned the Clan Council to allow them to keep back a third of the foodstuffs slated for export - the minimum they considered necessary to feed the local population at a substience level until the following year's harvest. The Clan Council refused, and chided the laborers for presuming to suggest that the Clan's noble warrior give up any part of their caste's right for the convenience of mere laborers. Thats what led to the seizing of a food transport by desperate locals and the brutal response of Khan Ian Moon, which was followed by open rebelions on most Jaguar worlds and even more brutal responses.

Yup that is in comstars version of the events that happened before the clans were even really known. I am telling you that Comstar is the devil and has made false claims in their books, simple as that. Comstar has hated the clans far before Tukayyid, they were scared of us before they even knew we survived. We were the entire reason the explorer corps was made...find the survivors of the exodus.

[Dihm]

I couldn't find a battlemech doing it, so you get Gundam.

[Adridos]

Phoenix Hawk?

[Thorn Hallis]

Amarus Cameron, on 10 January 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

Yup that is in comstars version of the events that happened before the clans were even really known. I am telling you that Comstar is the devil and has made false claims in their books, simple as that. Comstar has hated the clans far before Tukayyid, they were scared of us before they even knew we survived. We were the entire reason the explorer corps was made...find the survivors of the exodus.

Nope, that comes from a claner - Jaime Wolf.

[Amarus Cameron]

Thorn Hallis, on 10 January 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Nope, that comes from a claner - Jaime Wolf.

Who is a Wolf...all the info we get on the clans is from Wolves (who are proven traitors) or Comstar...fail.

Also, I do not have it in front of me but I thought the Invading Clan Source book was done by Comstar?

Edited by Amarus Cameron, 10 January 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Dihm]

You realize that the books are done from the perspective of various groups for fun/fluff right? To make them seem like they "came from the world"?

They aren't done with hidden agendas to disparage other groups. They aren't propaganda.

[Thorn Hallis]

Invading Clans was put together by Jaime Wolf. The Wolf and Jade Falcon Sourcebooks were from Comstar.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 10 January 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[FireNova]

Dihm, on 05 January 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

<cough>Turtle Bay<cough>

*cough* Kentares Massacre *cough*

Gotta love the anti-SJ media propaganda machine! Kinda reminds me about how bad our REAL LIFE media has gotten......

[Amarus Cameron]

Dihm, on 10 January 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

You realize that the books are done from the perspective of various groups for fun/fluff right? To make them seem like they "came from the world"?

They aren't done with hidden agendas to disparage other groups. They aren't propaganda.

Actually the sorucebooks are Comstars take on the universe and there is direct misinformation and I have the from the horses mouth so to speak


I mean I understand what you are saying but I am saying that FASA wrote them with intentional misinformation as a Comstar agent would.

Edited by Amarus Cameron, 10 January 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Amarus Cameron]

FireNova, on 10 January 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

*cough* Kentares Massacre *cough*

Gotta love the anti-SJ media propaganda machine! Kinda reminds me about how bad our REAL LIFE media has gotten......

Nah fire they are not hating on us per-say just how I am interpreting things, which is fine, we can all take much from BT lore.

[FireNova]

Amarus Cameron, on 10 January 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Nah fire they are not hating on us per-say just how I am interpreting things, which is fine, we can all take much from BT lore.

Oh come on Amarus! Have some common sense! Its plain knowledge to some people with real brains that if you control the media, you control the way people think! THAT is one thing I gotta give ComStar and the Inner Sphere writers some credit on, the ability to brainwash more people into hating the Jaguars than *** News and CrapNN combined! It would be like me saying that Chuck Norris is in fact 'The God' who can cause people to go into a mental breakdown the moment they hear ANYTHING related with Imus in the Morning on Fox Business (which is in fact a GREAT show to watch early in the morning ....I get alot of laughs out of watching that show...especially the way they have some of their comedians portray popular real life people....like this for example...LOL.)

[Dihm]

It's all a plot to make the Jags out to be baby-eating monsters, thus justifying unwarranted Inner Sphere retaliation causing the annihilation of the most honorable Clan.



I joke I kid.

[Amarus Cameron]

Dihm, on 10 January 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

It's all a plot to make the Jags out to be baby-eating monsters, thus justifying unwarranted Inner Sphere retaliation causing the annihilation of the most honorable Clan.



I joke I kid.

Sir if you were being less than sarcastic I would agree with you.

First off, we live.

Second, the rape of Lootera will never be forgotten, Comstars hand in that especially.

Third, you all violated the truce. No forces past the Tukayyid truce line...way to go for honoring deals.

Fourth, seriously? The entire military of the Inner Sphere vs. One clan? Seriously how scared did we have you, lolololololol.

Fifth, your operation serpent just about failed, with all the elite units of the time, and against solahma no less...again lol.

Sixth...check the sig man...just check the sig.

[FireNova]

Yeah in all honesty I keep wondering about why noone wants to even TALK let alone MENTION about Jaguar survivors....I mean....dang! a WHOLE warship (Streaking Mist) ESCAPES from Bulldog/Serpent destruction for crying out loud! (If a warship can escape.....can only imagine what else Bulldog/Serpent missed.) I always found it fascinating to being given an opportunity to play as Jaguar survivors post Bulldog/Serpent and from there we can "build upon our own story/lore" and rebuild the Clan and continue to have a place in BattleTech/MechWarrior. This old tyrannical lore/storyline ironclad "tabletop rules" stuff just cannot fly in a VIDEOGAME like MechWarrior that is BASED on BattleTech! If other people can play as their Steiners and Davions and all that neat stuff, then I sure as heck can play as a Jaguar as I so CHOOSE (as well as others for that matter). Why people ignore this potential storyline possibility and not allow fun ideas to take hold in BattleTech is beyond me.....then again....BattleTech has been out of the mainstream for so long because of this "faction destroyer" mentality so it comes as no real surprise there.

At any rate I just think the media bias against the Jaguars has too strong a hold on the BattleTech/MechWarrior community to allow a fanbase (Jaguars) to have a place in BattleTech for that matter. Playing as Jaguar survivors is an option that I think should be seriously considered.....

[Thorn Hallis]

Amarus Cameron, on 10 January 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Actually the sorucebooks are Comstars take on the universe and there is direct misinformation and I have the from the horses mouth so to speak


I mean I understand what you are saying but I am saying that FASA wrote them with intentional misinformation as a Comstar agent would.

You sound like a Toyama-sect member.

[Dihm]

You guys certainly are fanatical, I'll give you that.

FireNova, there are no clans available to be played period right now, it isn't part of the game design. It's set in 3049, Smoke Jaguar hasn't been destroyed yet, and won't be for many years. No need for the misplaced rage.

Quote

This old tyrannical lore/storyline ironclad "tabletop rules" stuff just cannot fly in a VIDEOGAME like MechWarrior that is BASED on BattleTech!

Sorry, but the story is the story, so it is written so shall it be. Unless you're playing in your own home-brewed campaign, then the sky is the limit, do whatever you want.

Edited by Dihm, 10 January 2012 - 10:04 AM.

[Starne]

To the OP, welcome to Battletech. I hope you brought a flame-retardant suit, because things can get a little heated.

Clans, especially Smoke Jaguar, honorable? Seriously? The Clanners are nothing but a bunch of Neo-Facist Nietzsche Wannabes. The Jaguars are among the worst, their leaders are simply a bunch of blood-thirsty war-mongers. The clan's 'great leader' Leo Showers was directly responsible for orchestrating the Clan invasion of the Inner Sphere and is also directly and indirectly responsible for god knows how many deaths, and for what? The only sad thing about his death was that a far better person had to die to kill him.

Keep raving about how much 'better' and 'more honorable' the Clans are. Go ahead. It's clear nothing I nor anyone else can or will say will change your mind.

The facts are these: The Clans practice eugenics(great big red flag here, folks). In Clan culture, if you are'nt a 'Trueborn' warrior, you are undeserving of having a surname to remember your family and heritage by. The Clans claim moral superiority by not fighting wars, instead they practice a twisted bloodsport that has killed countless numbers of their own. The Clans knowingly disregard tactics and strategies that can and have brought swift and desicive victory.

In short: Clans are the kind of aberation the Nazis would be proud of(oh yeah, I went there.). 'Superior' 'Trueborn' 'Warriors' are worthy of nothing but my contempt. I have pity and sympathy for the people oppressed by Clan society, but unfortunately, like any good facist society, there is stockholm-syndrome on such a massive scale among these people that there is'nt much that can be done for them.

Edited by Starne, 10 January 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Commraid]

Hmm I was hoping for enlightenment but it looks like most people cant agree on the true backstory... not a good start.
I guess I will just have to read and make up my own opinion for myself

[Dihm]

Commraid, on 10 January 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Hmm I was hoping for enlightenment but it looks like most people cant agree on the true backstory... not a good start.
I guess I will just have to read and make up my own opinion for myself

It appears to be just a couple Smoke Jaguars who take a skewed view of the source material, don't worry too much. The sourcebooks are canon.

[Starne]

Commraid, on 10 January 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Hmm I was hoping for enlightenment but it looks like most people cant agree on the true backstory... not a good start.
I guess I will just have to read and make up my own opinion for myself

That's the best choice. Read up, and form your own opinions. Don't let anyone tell you what to believe(Especially those Clan-lovers). The 'Mechverse is full of Gray Vs Grey morality, there are few 'Good guys'(many of those few are blantant Mary-Sues that can do no wrong, anyway) but plenty of bad guys. So, read up on the backstory, and form your own opinion

I, however have made up my mind. Inner Sphere society and it's governments are far from perfect(but most of them beat the alternatives), ComStar is filled to brim with megalomainiacs and crazed fanatics. The periphery is full of people who are either hardworking, honest folk, or bloodthirsty pirates. The Clans are bunch of brainwashed facist hypocrites with cool toys(Weird, facists that think they're superhuman, armed with cool weaponry and equippment. Where-ever have I heard that before. *Hint* Nazi Germany *Unhint*)

You'll find someone to root for, and at least one person or group to loathe and/or hate.