63 replies to this topic

[Keyne]

There are 2 points to remember here Bishop:

You're applying your knowledge of 21st Century technology and physics to 31st century technology. It simply doesn't work. Back in WWI nobody though that airplanes had ANY military value - look at where we are today. Air superiority is key to all major military operations.

Beyond that, this is an ART thread. I want to see an awesome No-Dachi redesign with an equally awesome sword. I don't care if the physics behind it don't make perfect sense!

Edited by Keyne, 02 August 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[Imagine Dragons]

THIS IS SPART- BATTLETECH!

But seriously, when the hell did realism have a place in here?

Oh wait, LAMs... but then again that was just an excuse for FASA to drop the potential clusterguck of a lawsuit.

[Sneaky B]

Actually, I have an idea for the Katana...

Hint: RPG-7 VM

I, too, value realism. I have to balance form and function.

Edited by Sneaky B, 02 August 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Steel Raven]

Actual been thinking more about the melee weapons; the latest rule set set described axes and such like a bayonet, so treat the sword like a large bayonet fixed to the forearm. Though that might make it look a little too much like Jehuty from Zone of Enders.

[Bishop Steiner]

Keyne, on 02 August 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

There are 2 points to remember here Bishop:

You're applying your knowledge of 21st Century technology and physics to 31st century technology. It simply doesn't work. Back in WWI nobody though that airplanes had ANY military value - look at where we are today. Air superiority is key to all major military operations.

Beyond that, this is an ART thread. I want to see an awesome No-Dachi redesign with an equally awesome sword. I don't care if the physics behind it don't make perfect sense!

Right........ so in a universe where mech weapons are heavier, less powerful, and shorter ranged than 20th centrury weapons, somehow we have the magical vibro-katana that is shatterproof? You'll have to forgive me if I find that concept a little laughable. Especially since Battletech was largely based on (poorly understood) 20th century physics

Heck, while we are at it. let's add adamantium laced endo steel IS, so we can have indestructible mechs, too. Heck any allow that would make the katana so strong would be nigh impenetrable as armor!

As for the "art" part.... I get a dozen noobz whining my mech design looks to anime-ish, but a sword weilding samurai mech is "totally Battletech"?


That's pretty rich.

Folks, instead of trying to justify the katana, just give the real reason, "I want it cuz it looks teh kewlzor"! At least then it's an opinion, which we are all allowed. (BTW, MY opinion? Teh katana sword looks teh stupid. )

[Steel Raven]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Right........ so in a universe where mech weapons are heavier, less powerful, and shorter ranged than 20th centrury weapons, somehow we have the magical vibro-katana that is shatterproof?

Exactly It's sci-fi dude, don't over think the giant stompy robot tech. Your the artist; don't want a sword, don't need a sword.

[Chunkymonkey]

Unless its a vibrosword, it doesn't really do anything

[Sneaky B]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Right........ so in a universe where mech weapons are heavier, less powerful, and shorter ranged than 20th centrury weapons, somehow we have the magical vibro-katana that is shatterproof? You'll have to forgive me if I find that concept a little laughable. Especially since Battletech was largely based on (poorly understood) 20th century physics

Looking at the large bored short barrels though, I think they would be reasonably short ranged :S

Quote

Heck, while we are at it. let's add adamantium laced endo steel IS, so we can have indestructible mechs, too. Heck any allow that would make the katana so strong would be nigh impenetrable as armor!

As for the "art" part.... I get a dozen noobz whining my mech design looks to anime-ish, but a sword weilding samurai mech is "totally Battletech"?


That's pretty rich.

Folks, instead of trying to justify the katana, just give the real reason, "I want it cuz it looks teh kewlzor"! At least then it's an opinion, which we are all allowed. (BTW, MY opinion? Teh katana sword looks teh stupid. )

Well, the only viable solution I could come up with a Katana design is to somehow attach an array of shaped charges in conjunction with a hard kill penetrator. Hence, my hint of the RPG-7 VM

But of course, part of that is treating the melee weapon more as a dispensable ammo rather than an ultra-resilient albeit impractical weapon system

Think of it as the 31st century version of the Roman Pilum...

As for the Vibrosword, I have plans of reinventing it

Edited by Sneaky B, 03 August 2012 - 02:56 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

not as much as you might think. Plus plenty of designs have nice long barrels. Snub-Nose ACs would be a nice sub gategory, though I guess "Lite ACs" sorta covers that.

[Keyne]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Right........ so in a universe where mech weapons are heavier, less powerful, and shorter ranged than 20th centrury weapons, somehow we have the magical vibro-katana that is shatterproof? You'll have to forgive me if I find that concept a little laughable. Especially since Battletech was largely based on (poorly understood) 20th century physics

Battletech is science fiction. Any work of fiction requires suspension of disbelief. If you really want to talk about non-sensical areas of battletech, consider that an Atlas should weigh well over 500 tons. That level of realism has no place in this universe. So in conclusion, yes, its entirely possible we have viable sword weapons in the universe. This is fairly heavily grounded in canon as well.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Heck, while we are at it. let's add adamantium laced endo steel IS, so we can have indestructible mechs, too. Heck any allow that would make the katana so strong would be nigh impenetrable as armor!

Well that just wouldn't be any fun!

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

As for the "art" part.... I get a dozen noobz whining my mech design looks to anime-ish, but a sword weilding samurai mech is "totally Battletech"? That's pretty rich.

Your design is an amazing piece of art, but aesthetically it just doesn't fit battletech. Sure, thats my opinion, but it seems the majority of forum users agree with me. It also seems the majority of people want to see this art piece wielding a sword as well.

In canon, the No-Dachi wields a sword, so yes, it is "totally battletech." Since you're an artist, I'd suggest trying to be more open to constructive criticism.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Folks, instead of trying to justify the katana, just give the real reason, "I want it cuz it looks teh kewlzor"! At least then it's an opinion, which we are all allowed. (BTW, MY opinion? Teh katana sword looks teh stupid. )

Umm... didn't I do that exact thing a few posts back?

Keyne, on 02 August 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

I want to see an awesome No-Dachi redesign with an equally awesome sword. I don't care if the physics behind it don't make perfect sense!

Edited by Keyne, 05 August 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Steel Raven]

Keyne, on 05 August 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Your design is an amazing piece of art, but aesthetically it just doesn't fit battletech. Sure, thats my opinion, but it seems the majority of forum users agree with me. It also seems the majority of people want to see this art piece wielding a sword as well.

BT aesthetics are all over the place, they seem to change from TRO to TRO if not artist to artist. It all down to ones own opinion when it's all said and done.

[Bishop Steiner]

Keyne, on 05 August 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Battletech is science fiction. Any work of fiction requires suspension of disbelief. If you really want to talk about non-sensical areas of battletech, consider that an Atlas should weigh well over 500 tons. That level of realism has no place in this universe. So in conclusion, yes, its entirely possible we have viable sword weapons in the universe. This is fairly heavily grounded in canon as well.



Well that just wouldn't be any fun!



Your design is an amazing piece of art, but aesthetically it just doesn't fit battletech. Sure, thats my opinion, but it seems the majority of forum users agree with me. It also seems the majority of people want to see this art piece wielding a sword as well.

In canon, the No-Dachi wields a sword, so yes, it is "totally battletech." Since you're an artist, I'd suggest trying to be more open to constructive criticism.



Umm... didn't I do that exact thing a few posts back?

Oh the LULZ.

funnily enough, I am very open to being critiqued (as if you actually look at my other posts, many, though certainly not all, have been modified following suggestions), I just tend to respond better to ctiticism that makes sense and has any sort of consistency.

"The sword is well established in Canon".
Yep, so are hand held ACs and Lasers. Take a look at the 3025, 3050 and 3055 TROs (not the revised crap ones)

also.... Talking sentient bird people are canon too, not many would actually want to see them in MWO (let alone think they were ever a good idea)

And as for looking "anime", the Canon argument falls all to pieces, since well, ya know, the original canon mechs were all licensed OFF OF ANIME. And if you bother to look into other Canon publications, such as Solaris the reaches, you will find plenty more examples.

Also, "good" criticism tends to be "if you maybe change this feature to this....), not "dur-hur, that looks too much like gundam!'.
Yes, very helpful critique there, oh esteemed one.

[Keyne]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Oh the LULZ.

funnily enough, I am very open to being critiqued (as if you actually look at my other posts, many, though certainly not all, have been modified following suggestions), I just tend to respond better to ctiticism that makes sense and has any sort of consistency.

"The sword is well established in Canon".
Yep, so are hand held ACs and Lasers. Take a look at the 3025, 3050 and 3055 TROs (not the revised crap ones)

also.... Talking sentient bird people are canon too, not many would actually want to see them in MWO (let alone think they were ever a good idea)

And as for looking "anime", the Canon argument falls all to pieces, since well, ya know, the original canon mechs were all licensed OFF OF ANIME. And if you bother to look into other Canon publications, such as Solaris the reaches, you will find plenty more examples.

Also, "good" criticism tends to be "if you maybe change this feature to this....), not "dur-hur, that looks too much like gundam!'.
Yes, very helpful critique there, oh esteemed one.

You're taking this a little too personally. I'm not attacking you, your art, or your style. Your Quetzcoatl piece is one of my favorites on this entire forum. I dig the handheld rifle AND the sleeker look. All I'm saying is that your argument against swords in this universe, based largely off of them not making "real life" sense, seems a little silly to me.

But more to the point, I want to stop derailing this thread! Less flames, more No-Dachi!

Edited by Keyne, 05 August 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Keyne, on 05 August 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

You're taking this a little too personally. I'm not attacking you, your art, or your style. Your Quetzcoatl piece is one of my favorites on this entire forum. I dig the handheld rifle AND the sleeker look. All I'm saying is that your argument against swords in this universe, based largely off of them not making "real life" sense, seems a little silly to me.

But more to the point, I want to stop derailing this thread! Less flames, more No-Dachi!

I am not looking for a flame war, and would simply state that I didn't start one, either. Made a very simple observation as to why I hated the sword concept. I am aware that this is Sci-Fi, and such, but "suspension of disbelief" only goes so far. No denying, Battletech and pretty much every other Sci-Fi game is pretty ludicrous from the reality stand-point, but one of the things I like is that in the past, they at least tried to make things functional. Then at some point, the good folks at FASA had a brain fart, and you had mech swords, mech claws, mech shields.......

Suffice it to say I hold about as much affection for those things as I do for the further butchery (though still canon, ugggh) of all things Jihad/Dark Age. I simply was trying to make the point that if people were going to cry "anime is not Btech", not much is more anime that 40ft tall Samurai-Bots. (At least they don't have laser swords, I suppose).

Anyhow, for me, redesigns have always been done to try to mitigate the egregiously stupid elements that FASA seemed determined to use. So I am curious which way the OP is gonna go with this to try and make a better Mech.

[Kar Ivan Skripken]

This being the first time i've ever heard of this mech and seeing it for the first time on wiki the only practical reason i'd see for the katana would be to trip up a lighter mech and while he's on floundering the ground blast him with the arm wepon. As it is a close range mech he'd be well armored. Think samari armor. A short stalky mech lots of armor draped around the back of the neck and and waste. The one i seen on wiki was nothing like i would imagine a samuri-esk mech should look like... aside from the sword.

[Steel Raven]

Both the sword and hatchet serve the same purpose; fancy looking club a mech can hold in one hand. The sword simply trades in the some of the blunt force of the hatchet for a longer reach.

The only problem with the mech 'katana' is 1.) it doesn't look like a club and 2.) by it's nature, it's not a katana. This was simply the artist taking the samurai theme one step further than he should have. Like the actual No-Dachi sword, it's cool-factor trumping function.

Could be worse, it could be a chainsaw

[Bishop Steiner]

Steel Raven, on 05 August 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Could be worse, it could be a chainsaw

*barfs in mouth just a little*

[Sneaky B]

All right, design has been updated. Refer to first page, please.

Specifics on the sword design and evolution are to follow.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sneaky B, on 08 August 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

All right, design has been updated. Refer to first page, please.

Specifics on the sword design and evolution are to follow.

OK, now THAT looks good. Also I think it follows the MW:O art style waaaaay better than I can (of course I would probably get more angular if I actually drew on the computer, but that's a me problem.) I just hope I can get ya to post a variant with a tetsubo so that I can beat someone down with the ugly stick. Would love you to re-imagine my Hatamoto-Chi that way.

[Steel Raven]

Nice job! Really dig the armor and the face.