111 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Vulpesveritas, on 09 January 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Well if Piledriver delivers based on what AMD says it will have an IPC increase of 15% which would make it 5% faster than STARS per clock.

And I'll still take AMD over Intel. 5 reasons:
1. I'll not lose more than 5 frames per second vs intel processor of same price.
2. I will usually get higher frames per second on a CPU $150 down.
3. AMD needs my money.
4. Intel pays companies to use their processors, AMD doesn't
5. Intel puts more money into R&D in a year than AMD makes in all in a year. Yet AMD can make competitive designs. WTH?!? I mean, come on Intel, don't you have competent researchers? you have more than five times the resources yet you still can't come out with a decent GPU driver? Or make something truly over the top that would make you truly reign supreme?

Aside from the opinion based bits ( and this is what we're all doing) Any sources to 4 and 5 as they would both make interesting reading. I always think of Intel like Windows everyone uses it because its well supported and its what we used before type of thinking.

[Vulpesveritas]

Intel paying compannies and sued by government:http://www.ftc.gov/o...9/12/intel.shtm

intel R&D buget: ~$5 billion http://online.wsj.co...1569248344.html (albeit a few years back. Am being lazy not looking up 2010 values.)
AMD income: ~$6 billion before taking out production costs, worker pay, etc. http://www.amd.com/u...-2010apr15.aspx

And AMD does need my money. Like any other company who isn't in the #1 spot.
AMD Llano and Brazos usually outperform on CPU + integrated GPU vs Celeron and Pentium, and Brazos just wipes the floor with Atom.

And really show me a benchmark recently where an intel and an AMD cpu of the same price and generation were more than 5 frames per second different at 1080p gaming graphics.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 09 January 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Thx

[Vulpesveritas]

No prob. Yeah Intel also got sued by Nvidea years back on claims that Intel stole GPU tech from Nvidea.
And me, I haven't used an Intel processor since my first PC which was running an old compaq windows 98 PC which was my first. And I disassembled/reassembled. When I was 7. Been building since then and always used AMD.

Just me I suppose. I am biased to an extent but I do research to back up my bias.
Some people call it an excuse. I consider it proving I was right in the first place.

[Catamount]

It's worth noting that the lack of a difference in gaming between AMD and Intel CPUs is again just because games are rarely, if ever, CPU-bound. CPUs do age and become less able to run software, of course, it just happens vastly slower than with GPUs.

That's why I'm using a Phenom II X4 right now (now for nearly 2 years), with no plans to replace it. At the time, AMD was doing a lot of deals with motherboards to undercut the Nehalem i5 prices, so it made sense, since nothing faster was warranted.


If I was building now? Well it depends on budget, but the i5 2500k would be near the top of my list at the immediate moment, but I get the feeling we haven't heard the last from AMD's new architecture. We'll get a substantial IPC increase just from moving to Windows 8 (Windows 7 doesn't actually handle tasks on Bulldozer modules correctly, so there's a performance hit there), and more than that, I think AMD will get the architecture straightened out before long into something very formidable, IPC-wise. That's all irrelevant (and largely speculative) for the time being, however.

[Thorqemada]

DV^McKenna, on 09 January 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

You can tell someone in this thread is a pure bread AMD fan
Do your own research would be my advice just about every sight where you look up for the best gaming CPU will tell you that currently the I5 2500k with its unlocked Multiplyer is king for gaming and can be overclocked to 4.6ghz stable without much bother.

Cry Engine3 supports 8 cores will MWO make best use of that? Highly doubt it, it'll be designed for the average user within the Phenom II, I3/5/7 Market. AMD's current Bulldozer chips have not made the biggest of splashes with the tech review section (however long term i think you'd be better going AMD they support their chips better and longer ).

This is currently what im looking at in the next few months.

• 120GB OCZ Technology Vertex 3, 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Sandforce SSD, Read 550MB/s, Write 500MB/s, 85K IOPS
  
• 2 x 1GB Asus GTX 560 Ti DirectCU II TOP, 40nm, 4200MHz GDDR5, GPU 900MHz, Shader 1800MHz, 384 Cores + Battlefield3 Game
  
• 1TB Seagate ST31000524AS Barracuda 7200.12, SATA 6Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.5ms, NCQ
  
• 4 650W PSU, Antec TruePower New Modular, 82%Eff', 80 PLUS Bronze, SLI/CrossFire, EPS 12V, Quiet Fan, ATX
  
• 8GB (2x4GB) Corsair DDR3 Vengeance Jet Black LP, PC3-12800 (1600), Non-ECC, CAS 9-9-9-24, XMP, 1.5V
  
• Asus ROG Maximus IV Extreme-Z Intel Z68, S 1155, DDR3, SATA III - 6Gb/s, RAID SATA, PCIe 2.0 (x16), E-ATX
  
• Asus Xonar DG 5.1 PCI Sound Card & Headphone Ampifier, OEM
  
• [color=#0099FF]Coolermaster HAF 912 Plus, Black, Mid Tower Case w/o PSU[/color]
  
• Corsair H80 Hydro Series High Performance CPU cooler, S775/1155/1156/1366/2011/AM2/AM3
  
• Intel Core i5 2500K Unlocked, S1155, Sndy Bridge, Quad, 3.3GHz, HD3000 IGP 850Mhz, 6MB Cache 95W Retail
  
• Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit SP1, Operating System, Single, - OEM
  
• Pioneer DVR-S19LBK 24x DVD±R, 12x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, RAM x12, SATA, Black, Retail Labelflash

Wow, this is an outstanding system!
That comes at a cost of having big PSU requirements.
The test i have read at Guru3D tells its readers to get at least a 700W but better a +800W PSU for a 560-SLI config (and some OC in mind).
You will probably spend 100 bucks more a year only for the power bill compared to the single GPU setup (when playing around 4 hours per day).

PS: http://www.guru3d.co...i-sli-review/14

Edited by Thorqemada, 09 January 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Thorqemada, on 09 January 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Wow, this is an outstanding system!
That comes at a cost of having big PSU requirements.
The test i have read at Guru3D tells its readers to get at least a 750W but better a +800W PSU for a 560-SLI config (and some OC in mind).
You will probably spend 100 bucks more a year only for the power bill compared to the single GPU setup (when playing around 4 hours per day).

Good catch i had 2 web pages open, will update the post with the actual PSU, 650W would be pretty silly seeing as the system clocks in at nearly 700W min.

NB.Above post edited

Edited by DV^McKenna, 09 January 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Drachenwolf]

My Rig is running a 3.2 GHz AMD chip with 4 barton cores. Its super cool, super fast and easy to overclock. I have 16GB of DDR3 and a HDRadeon 6790 over clocked. My Motherboard is an Asus M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 and is uber wicked!! I have an 850 Watt Cooler Masrer Power supply and everything on this rig is either sli or crossfire ready. Meaning everything mentioned so far can go eaither way. SLI or Crossfire X. I said all that to say this. I built this machine and have been building rigs off and on for over 10 years now. I have had Intel and Nvidia on my systems as well. But I can assure you that HDRadeon series cards and AMD chips wont letchya down. All of what I just previously mentioned my friend, costs under $800.00 Bucks US. I paid a little more of course but as you know prices eventually come down. Heres a good rig example you can pick up at perhaps Tigerdirect .com

See the info below? is a bare bones kit for under 500 bucks. Totally upgradable and no I dont earn anything form telling you this. Just want you to get the best bang for your buck!! Peace Mate!!

ASUS M5A99X EVO AMD FX-6100 6-Core Barebones Kit - ASUS M5A99X EVO Board, AMD FX-6100 6-Core Processor, Patriot 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 RAM, 1TB HDD, 24x DVDRW, Thermaltake V2 Mid Tower, 450W Power Supply

P.S. Yes you have to put it together but hey its easy and its fun!!

[AlexHxyz]

Alright, so I'm not very good with computers. Most of my info is outdated so bare with me.

so this is my computer stats...
Intel R Core TM2 Duo CPU, E6750 @ 2.66GHz 2.67GHz, 2 GB of RAM, window xp. I don't know what any of those numbers mean. I know I don't have graphic card in there but I'm pretty sure it's GeForce 8500.

anyways, let's say in the future i want to run modern warfare 3 and mechwarrior online... about how much do I have to spend for a decent set that won't get replaced soon?

lemme know if i need to post any more information and where to find it.

oh and please, answer in noob friendly format. also is it better to just get a whole new computer?

Edited by AlexHxyz, 09 January 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[Thorqemada]

To show a picture how diverse the real wattage of different systems can be - my system:

Win 7 x64
AMD 975 x4
Gigabyte 990xa
2 x 4GB Kingston Blue DDR3-1600
ATI HD 6950 2GB
X-Fi Titanium
2 x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3R
1 DVD-RW
ENERMAX Modu 82+ (625 Watt)
Power Usage (Computer only):
Idle/Low = ~90W (Internet surfing, Winamp music i.e.)
Standard = ~200W (AoC, DAO, CIV)
Full Load = ~280W (GTA IV)

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Vulpesveritas, on 09 January 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

No prob. Yeah Intel also got sued by Nvidea years back on claims that Intel stole GPU tech from Nvidea.
And me, I haven't used an Intel processor since my first PC which was running an old compaq windows 98 PC which was my first. And I disassembled/reassembled. When I was 7. Been building since then and always used AMD.

Just me I suppose. I am biased to an extent but I do research to back up my bias.
Some people call it an excuse. I consider it proving I was right in the first place.

http://www.anandtech...fx8150-tested/8

Prob the eaisest to read i could find, compares several chips as well.

@AlexHxyz
Truthfully ....eaisier to get a new computer .
On yours you'd be looking at a new motherboard to support a new CPU, which will likely mean new Ram and a new Graphics Card to boot.
The rest can prob be salvaged to work.

[Vulpesveritas]

Thorqemada, on 09 January 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Wow, this is an outstanding system!
That comes at a cost of having big PSU requirements.
The test i have read at Guru3D tells its readers to get at least a 700W but better a +800W PSU for a 560-SLI config (and some OC in mind).
You will probably spend 100 bucks more a year only for the power bill compared to the single GPU setup (when playing around 4 hours per day).

PS: http://www.guru3d.co...i-sli-review/14

Yeah, an AMD Radeon HD 7970 might be a better bet, your system will run cooler, you'll save a lot on your power bill, it only uses two expansion slots, and does a liitle bit better than 560 SLI in benchmarks other than tesselataion. And you'll only spend $30 more initially, but over time you should save more than that in your energy bill I would think.

AlexHxyz, on 09 January 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Alright, so I'm not very good with computers. Most of my info is outdated so bare with me.

so this is my computer stats...
Intel R Core TM2 Duo CPU, E6750 @ 2.66GHz 2.67GHz, 2 GB of RAM, window xp. I don't know what any of those numbers mean. I know I don't have graphic card in there but I'm pretty sure it's GeForce 8500.

anyways, let's say in the future i want to run modern warfare 3 and mechwarrior online... about how much do I have to spend for a decent set that won't get replaced soon?

lemme know if i need to post any more information and where to find it.

oh and please, answer in noob friendly format. also is it better to just get a whole new computer?

If you don't want to build, yes.
Here is a link to a shopping list for you for PC's that should play MWO at at least medium settings for under $1000 via Newegg:
http://www.newegg.co...ue=1423%3A59061

[Catamount]

AlexHxyz, on 09 January 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Alright, so I'm not very good with computers. Most of my info is outdated so bare with me.

so this is my computer stats...
Intel R Core TM2 Duo CPU, E6750 @ 2.66GHz 2.67GHz, 2 GB of RAM, window xp. I don't know what any of those numbers mean. I know I don't have graphic card in there but I'm pretty sure it's GeForce 8500.

anyways, let's say in the future i want to run modern warfare 3 and mechwarrior online... about how much do I have to spend for a decent set that won't get replaced soon?

lemme know if i need to post any more information and where to find it.

oh and please, answer in noob friendly format. also is it better to just get a whole new computer?

The first thing we'd need to know is what power supply you have, to see if it'll even support upgrades.


It's not enough to give wattage; what model is it, exactly? (if you don't know, no problem; just open up the side of the case and there should be a sticker with the model on it).


Beyond that, you're getting close to the point at which further upgrades are hard to justify. Let's say you needed a new power supply, maybe something of halfway decent quality with a low-mid output, and your motherboard let you upgrade that processor to something newer, and then you wanted a passable video card. Your upgrade would look like this:

PSU: ~$50 (to run a budget system)
Core 2 Duo E8400 (older dual core, but still okay, would fit in your system): ~$80 used
Radeon HD 6770/6790: ~$100

That that point, you're out probably $250 with shipping and/or taxes. IF your motherboard would support that chip, that would actually be an okay system. Any Call of Duty game should run fantastically (because they're not that intensive), and MWO would probably run at some kind of mediumish setting, look pretty good, and be decently smooth.

That's probably a worthwhile upgrade, since a full system would start at about $500-$600 (that's the low-end of prices for something to play games fairly well), but it's still spending a couple hundred to get an outdated CPU and a low-mid GPU, so it's money you won't have later if you wanted to build something new altogether, and these will be the absolute last upgrades you'll be able to do for that system before doing a full replacement.


So it's up to you.


Maybe others have different options still?

Edited by Catamount, 09 January 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Vulpesveritas, on 09 January 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah, an AMD Radeon HD 7970 might be a better bet, your system will run cooler, you'll save a lot on your power bill, it only uses two expansion slots, and does a liitle bit better than 560 SLI in benchmarks other than tesselataion. And you'll only spend $30 more initially, but over time you should save more than that in your energy bill I would think.

True but is the duel monitor support fixed on that era of cards, currently the one i have has the flickering second screen issue when AMD overdrive is on, a bug AMD/ATI have known about for several years and still not fixed.

[AlexHxyz]

Catamount, on 09 January 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

The first thing we'd need to know is what power supply you have, to see if it'll even support upgrades.


It's not enough to give wattage; what model is it, exactly? (if you don't know, no problem; just open up the side of the case and there should be a sticker with the model on it).


Beyond that, you're getting close to the point at which further upgrades are hard to justify. Let's say you needed a new power supply, maybe something of halfway decent quality with a low-mid output, and your motherboard let you upgrade that processor to something newer, and then you wanted a passable video card. Your upgrade would look like this:

PSU: ~$50 (to run a budget system)
Core 2 Duo E8400 (older dual core, but still okay, would fit in your system): ~$80 used
Radeon HD 6770/6790: ~$100

That that point, you're out probably $250 with shipping and/or taxes. IF your motherboard would support that chip, that would actually be an okay system. Any Call of Duty game should run fantastically (because they're not that intensive), and MWO would probably run at some kind of mediumish setting, look pretty good, and be decently smooth.

That's probably a worthwhile upgrade, since a full system would start at about $500-$600 (that's the low-end of prices for something to play games fairly well), but it's still spending a couple hundred to get an outdated CPU and a low-mid GPU, so it's money you won't have later if you wanted to build something new altogether, and these will be the absolute last upgrades you'll be able to do for that system before doing a full replacement.


So it's up to you.


Maybe others have different options still?

hm... how much could i sell this computer for if i decided to sell this and get a better one?

[Vulpesveritas]

Probably $100, $200 if you're lucky.
I have a year old quad core laptop, which will only sell for $140. So yea.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

You can most likely re use your current case,HDD,CD Rom drive. It can't be that hard to find a bundle that includes CPU,Mobo,Ram all in one.
You'd need a new PSU, your GPU will last but need replacing at some stage soon.
something like...http://www.amazon.co...26146664&sr=8-8
You might be able to find it cheaper, im not that good with US sites.

Edited by DV^McKenna, 09 January 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[Catamount]

AlexHxyz, on 09 January 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

hm... how much could i sell this computer for if i decided to sell this and get a better one?

Vulpesveritas, on 09 January 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Probably $100, $200 if you're lucky.
I have a year old quad core laptop, which will only sell for $140. So yea.

I would agree with vulpesveritas here, though, if you think about it, that's not a horrible deal.


Figure you'd get maybe $150, then didn't spend $250 on upgrades. That's a $400 system budget.

That's actually enough to build a computer, hardware-wise (then it'd be $100 for a copy of Windows).

Edited by Catamount, 09 January 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Mobo; $70 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157261
CPU+GPU: $ 90 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103951
RAM: $30/4GB dual channel http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820103004
PSU: $45 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182202
Total: ~$250 to upgrade your PC with all new parts on FM1. You'll be able to use your other old parts (if you have an IDE drive you'll have to get a SATA adapter though) and you'll play the game on mediumish settings.

[Catamount]

Vulpesveritas, on 09 January 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Mobo; $70 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157261
CPU+GPU: $ 90 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103951
RAM: $30/4GB dual channel http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820103004
PSU: $45 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182202
Total: ~$250 to upgrade your PC with all new parts on FM1. You'll be able to use your other old parts (if you have an IDE drive you'll have to get a SATA adapter though) and you'll play the game on mediumish settings.

That's actually not at all bad (good thinking ). Though I'd shoot for an A8-3850. The price difference is not inconsiderable, but it's also considerably faster, especially GPU-wise. Then it would be $300 instead of $250.

Toss in Windows and it's a $400 gaming PC that can actually play things decently

Edited by Catamount, 09 January 2012 - 02:14 PM.