63 replies to this topic

[Necrodemus]

Egomane, on 08 January 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

...the whole Battletech universe is based on the two dimensional map concerning travel times and distances between...

With this information it should be possible to generate a 3D map that is accurate.

[Adrienne Vorton]

zencynic, on 21 June 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

I'm not sure what year that is, but the 3050 map above is not familiar to me.
Capellan Confederation is too big and the Free Rasalhague Republic is missing. Also, there should be a clan presence nudging in by then. If I had to guess. I'd say that map was from pre-3025

I think this is closer to what the MWO devs have so far. I can't find the high res version, but hopefully you get the idea.

yea i thought that it might be a map from a custom campaign or so? but it was the first one i found with all the star systems in it, not only the big territorial borders... thx for the "real" map

[Benaresh]

Stahlseele, on 08 January 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

you mean, like the hanseatic league?
http://www.sarna.net...anseatic_League

Voted both.
Because i think there were some maps that showed a top down version and a side version of the sphere years back . .

I think i saw that side map you mentioned! Also think i saw a similar one in a German Sourcebook unfortunatly those are considered non-canon but still...

[zencynic]

I found the high res one (5100 x 3300)

Oddly, DCM space seems to be blacked out. Com Star HPG embargo?

edit - NM, just hard to see small, black text on red background zoomed out that far

Edited by zencynic, 22 June 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[Cerlin]

I went for the 2d choice. It is easier to represent and conceptualize. Ask eve players. Even though the map can be 3d, most players use the 2d build.

[focuspark]

The "Inner Sphere" is just a fictional collection of stars in the very real Milky Way Galaxy, which no matter what anyone tells you is measured in three dimension.

I believe the question is: what should the map look like? I don't think it matters because none of us will be navigating among the stars and if I understand it right, BT technology uses a network of systems to jump between and arbitrary jumps are necessarily possible; meaning locality does not reflect accessibility.

[Aurrous]

I think they could do what they did for Mass Effect 3 as far as an interactive universe map..
That one looks pretty close to this one..

They can take it one step further and do the same with "Planet" map selection and lobbying.. Granted those are peer based servers.. Would add a whole Drop Ship Attack feel to it..

[Hopdevil]

Here is a site with a bunch of high res maps based on the major periods

http://iscs.teamspam.net/

[MentalPatient]

I voted for 2d, because based on those 2d maps, there doesn't seem to be and depth to the map, so there is no sense in trying to guess where each one goes. Also, it would be harder to represent the borders and fronts with a 3d map.

[Alois Hammer]

Query: Given the number of people demanding Team Deathmatch because the concept of defending a base eludes their grasp, could the players even handle a 3-D map without their heads exploding?

I say no, this idea goes in direct defiance of the devs' apparent goal of watering this game down for the least common denominator market.

[Gremlich Johns]

would be nice to rotate and zoom a 3d map as well.

[Taemien]

It'd have to be 2d. Like its been said before, there is no third coordinate. The milky way galaxy is pretty flat in galatic/interstellar terms and thats why maps have always been 2d. While systems may vary a couple of lights years in depth on the z-axis, when mapping a large amount of space such as the Inner Sphere, it doesn't matter.

If you looked at the 'overmap' in Star Trek Online where the systems are higher or lower then each other when you are traveling through warp sector space, thats about what it would look like:



There's about nine systems represented there.

I would ask the question, would it actually be worth it representing the map in 3d? It wouldn't serve any purpose other than to say "hey, its 3d!" It might be more work than its worth.

However.. it could be an interesting means to show fronts. You have a 2d map but when you zoom in on a particular front it turns into a 3d view showing influence something like...



This shows the Innersphere shown from the side where the DC and FS touch and the right image shows the front from the edge. This would allow PGI to show fronts without actually having to redraw the map. Basically the black line in the center changes shape depending who has more influence on the other.

[Joseph Mallan]

Not a lot of people would be quick on seeing the map cause we are used to 2D. It would be totally cool though.

[BoydofZINJ]

Roughly two-thirds of all spirals are observed to have an additional component in the form of a bar-like structure, extending from the central bulge, at the ends of which the spiral arms begin. Our own Milky Way has recently (in the 1990s) been confirmed to be a barred spiral, although the bar itself is difficult to observe from our position within the Galactic disk. The most convincing evidence for its existence comes from a recent survey, performed by the Spitzer Space Telescope, of stars in the Galactic center.
In 2005, observations by the Spitzer Space Telescope backed up previously collected evidence that suggested the Milky Way is a barred spiral galaxy. Observations by radio telescopes had for years suggested the Milky Way is barred, but Spitzer's vision in the infrared region of the spectrum has provided a more definite calculation.

Essentially, the older and larger stars are in the center. Some even speculate that most larger galaxies may have super Black Holes in the center of the Galaxy. Our galaxy has a bulge of older and large stars in the center, and the further you get from the center the fewer the stars. Likewise, gravity also condenses the plane in which the stars orbit the center of the galaxy. The outer rim of our galaxy is (more or less) flat. Our type of galaxy is a kind of galaxy that looks like a flat, slowly rotating disk with a bulge in the centre. Our Solar System is located within the disk, around two thirds of the way out from the Galactic Center, on the inner edge of a spiral-shaped concentration of gas and dust called the Orion Arm.


With all that being said let us think about the "Inner Sphere."


The center of the Inner Sphere (the battletech universe) is Earth. Since we are not very close to the center of the galaxy most of the stars will be (more or less) in the same plane. While there are several exceptions - very few stars will be significantly below or above the plane. Often times a solar system will bob up and down from the plane of the galaxy. As the solar system revolves around the center of the Milky Way galaxy in a period of roughly 230 million years, it does bob up and down through the galactic plane in periods of roughly 35 million years.


Anyhow, it is reasonable to assume most of the inhabitable stars within the inner sphere are located in such a way that if you looked down at our galaxy that you can see all the stars in a 2-D format. Many stars in our galaxy do not (according to Battletech and MechWarrior lore) does not support life. The few that have planets that are colonized are represented correctly in a 2D format, probably.

Edited by Boydsan, 26 April 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Tennex]

its a great idea. but i don't know if there are the 3D coordinate in Lore. if there isn't then PGI would pretty much have to make up the Third axis values.

Edited by Tennex, 26 April 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Tennex, on 26 April 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

its a great idea. but i don't know if there are the 3D coordinate in Lore. if there isn't then PGI would pretty much have to make up the Third axis values.

Yeah... I came up with this idea a long time ago, based on my lack of BT Lore knowledge... the fiction is all 2D coordinates, so artistic license would be needed for this. Since the galaxy is mostly flat, the 3D representation would still be roughly disc-shaped... but getting around to CW with whatever they have ready is more important than a 3D map. A 3D map would be something that's nice to have, say, many months down the line.

[Screech]

Thontor, on 26 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

True the Milky Way is relatively flat... It's diameter is about 100,000 ly.. And it's thickness is 1,000 ly

The Milky Way is a barred spiral galaxy. While the thickness is 1,000 ly that refers to the center. The arms of the spiral are thinner around 250 ly on average, or there abouts.

Edited by Screech, 26 April 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Morang]

I think 3D map of the IS is the diminishing return for considerable effort. It won't tax only the artwork department because it can also demand some legal license and it will demand development of corresponding UI (want more crashes and glitches when viewing 3D map?) and may alter game balance at metagame level.

It will be nice to see the IS and plan military operations in 3D, but given PGI's resources and skills and current state of more important aspects of the game - I vote down.

[Kissamies]

I'm bit torn on this one. Traditionally, all the maps have been flat and 3D map wouldn't look familiar at all, but it's called the inner sphere. It might be nice to see it as such for once.

[Zerberus]

2d for 2 reasons. One Lore and one reality.

Lore: the maps we`ve been using for amost 30 years alre all 2d.

Reality (and this will likely surprise many, at least those w/o more than basic knowledge of astrophysics): In space, due to the nature of gravity, all galaxies flatten out more an more as time progresses.

The planets and comets as well as (in our case) asteroid belts all tend to gravitate their plane of orbit towards the central star`s equator. It is no coincidence that most "models" of the Milky Way and Solar System are also depicted 2 dimensionally, as the movement and orbital deviations along the X and Y axes is significantly greater that on the Z axis.

If there were a single übergalaxy /superultrahypermegamassive Black Hole at the point of the original Big Bang for everthing else to orbit around (instead of zipping away from that point at thousands of miles an hour), space would be astoundingly flat as a whole, with all galaxies eventually orbiting in more or less a single plane around that central point

TLDR: Space is 3 dimensional, but is constantly doing it`s best to become as 2 dimensional as possible.

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 01:48 AM.