Kay Wolf, on 25 September 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:
Okay, think about the irony of what you've just said. The writers for the Clans knew that, in the lore of the game, Inner Sphere MechWarrior's are taught to use concentrated/combined fire, in general, when necessary to win. They also knew, due to tabletop play over several years, that this was how Inner Sphere players played the game. Had they truly been concerned with honor for the Clans, rather than making a gimmick to attempt to hold back the Clans from abusing the superior technology, the honor rules would have been more strict, or at least written so it had a real effect. The only thing the Clan player has to wait for, thus, is the Inner Sphere player to act the way they're supposed to. Thus, the Clan rules of honor are a JOKE!
Yeah, we appear to have a conceptual disconnect on the subject here. I don't give a damn what some TT players did in the 80's. To me, the Clans are the invading warrior society as presented largely in Mechwarrior 2. What the "all bets are off if they break Zellbrigen" rule does is simply make the Clans at least slightly realistic. The rules of Zellbrigen are specifically designed for Clan vs Clan "warfare" to keep it as controlled as possible (much like counting coup), and there is absolutely no logical reason a Clan Mechwarrior would extend the rules of Zellbrigen to an enemy who refused to follow them. For one thing, it gives them a social standing within the Clans they, as dishonourable inner-sphere mech-hobos don't deserve, and for another it is really,
really stupid. If that rule
wasn't in place the first Clan to realise they could break Zellbrigen would've wiped the floor with the others.
Kay Wolf, on 25 September 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:
You're right, which is what makes Clan rules a joke; it doesn't take ANYTHING for the release of hell from the Clans. The only place Inner Sphere honor exists -because of the way the community simply ignores most of the precepts set up in the novels and sourcebooks- is in those self-same novels and sourcebooks.
Someone earlier in this thread explained they would fight with honor to the best of their ability, regardless of the losses and/or circumstances, as will I, as have I. It's up to each individual, on the Inner Sphere side, what they do; however, that doesn't mean honor-effects can't have a potential effect, as it really would in a true Inner Sphere, which is largely managed by a sort of feudal system, concerning reputation, standing in various places MechWarrior's would serve in, etc. The lore behind the game, which is one of the things that's supposed to be a major part of this game, according to the developers in late 2011/early 2012, should make it important to consider how the feudal control of the Inner Sphere would work, the sorts of effects a modernized interstellar feudal system, complete with honor codes, would have on military units within the Inner Sphere. As well, it's been pointed out, before, that the lore explains the Ares Conventions were almost universally ignored within a half-decade of their signing by the nobles; however, decades later, many military commander's, and their elements with them, were NOT ignoring the conventions, and this pro-activity literally saved the Inner Sphere from becoming nothing but an interstellar smoking hulk.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at here. Of course some Inner Sphere pilots followed honour codes that might've been close enough to Zellbrigen to afford them the extension of it by Clanner opposition. House Kurita comes to mind. Whether or not the Ares Conventions are ignored or not by the nebulous NPC presence funding our mission rewards is irrelevant to both the discussion or the game, until (never) we get access to mech-mounted NBC weapons.
Kay Wolf, on 25 September 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:
Since people will not play within these generally nebulous rules, will not concern themselves with them, whether Clan or Inner Sphere, hard rules should be put in place within the game. Again, for the Clans, these rules would be more punitive, while for the Inner Sphere, they would only have an effect on the overall operations and, for Merc Corps, the types of contracts they are able to get. The direction individuals and units decide to go, overall together, whether a unit hires or gets rid of certain MechWarrior's, based on their personal reputations, would be entirely up to how they fight in the game. If they fight dirty, they get dirty further down the road, and if they decide to change directions, or fight clean from the beginning, they continue to get better contracts. For Clanners that fight dirty, they face the consequences outlined in the Clan books.
Firstly, better Dev houses than PGI have tried and failed to implement enforced honour rules in competitive games before (and that's not even an insult to PGI, I cannot think of a single time it's worked). Secondly, the framework you're basing your hypothetical honour system on doesn't exist, nor is there any suggestion it will exist, in MW:O. We aren't hired,
certainly not as units. We don't have 'dirty' or 'honourable' jobs, we have two friendly lances, three lancemates and three opposition lances (or, presumably, two opposition stars).
That's it. And one has to wonder why you're so keen on punishing Clanners for following their own rules (Zellbrigen out the window when the opposition breaks it).
Kay Wolf, on 25 September 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:
ONLY those capable of working within the Clan rules and limitations, who are not simply barbarians at the controls of 'Mechs, should be allowed to have the opportunity to play in the Clans. WHEN the Clans are released by PGI -and, frankly, the statement they made about concentrating on the Clans, now, when they should still be concentrating on the overall game (CW, modes, etc.) and Inner Sphere, is unacceptable to me-, play in the Clans should only be by invitation, once it's determined an individual has what it takes.
I am an Inner Sphere mercenary and, admittedly, I don't have what it takes, beyond my personal honor code, to be in the Clans; I have no problem admitting that, but I also would never fight for the Clans. When the Wolf's Dragoons from MechWarrior II/NetMech decided to switch over to Clan Goliath Scorpion, I left them, and within two months they disbanded altogether. I loved the Dragoons, and everyone in that unit were awesome people, but my hatred of the Clans is so much it almost takes on a real-life dimension. So, no Clans for me.
Ah. So that's why. I think "almost" might be something of a stretch there, you
are taking it all very personally. As for "invite only Clans" there is absolutely no way that would ever happen, or work from a business standpoint. For one thing, those of us who like the Clans for whatever reason (MW2-based affection, Timberwolf bandwaggoning or simply love for irritating "old-school" tabletop players who are altogether too bitter) don't really deserve to have our game ringfenced because of
your personal issues. For another, it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do monetarily, the Clans will earn PGI a shedload, and artificial ring-fencing will ruin that opportunity and give this game an even worse reputation than it already has. Fast.
Kay Wolf, on 25 September 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:
That's a smart game? Or, is it just the most expedient way you've learned from others to act on? Your expedience has the bad side effect of ruining the fun of others. Being appropriately competitive is one thing, while seeking only the solitary win, even if your entire team reaps what you sow, takes away the fun of others and destroys people's desire to play. Either that, or they form posse's to hunt you down and end your legging spree.
Legging spree? Solitary win? Are you still playing MW3? There's nothing wrong, dishonourable or even unpopular about legging in MW:O in the slightest (and I'm a light pilot), there's a reason PGI tanked up leg armour, and it solved the whole issue. Legging is smart, viable and often sensible. And no more dishonourable than shooting a Centurion's gun or an obvious XL-mech in the shoulders.
Kay Wolf, on 25 September 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:
The Clan's, in a lore/history sense actually make sense. However, player's should never be allowed to play Clan's, they should be NPC-only, because there are BLOODY FEW people who actually bring the lore with them into the game. They want to 'play smart', which of course, in general, means a severe lack of honor, even Clan honor, which is honestly no honor at all. Thus, the Clan's are, for the most part, for munchkins.
Joseph Mallan, on 25 September 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:
Even vs another Clan Warrior? Don't forget the Clans did fight among themselves even during the invasion.
I do also agree with you on the Clans being NPCs. It would make them battle as intended. After all even in the Canon they dam near beat the Inner Sphere fighting by Clan honor. Take that away, and there is nothing that should stop the steamroll!
Yeah, make an entire faction in the gameworld NPCs because you don't like them, or to hold them to a nebulous standard of roleplay that the Innersphere isn't held to. And no, I don't mean Zellbrigen, I mean there is absolutely no requirement to roleplay an Inner Sphere pilot "appropriately" at the moment, nor should there be. And, likewise, there should be no requirement to roleplay a Clanner "appropriately".
fluffypinkbunny, on 25 September 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:
I have yet, in so many of my drops, to hear any clanner's either A. Admit they are such, or B. Been asked to bid my forces. Almost all of my matches start with GLHF... and then pew pew, there has yet to been a call for forces, bids, or even anybody asking for any sort of honor rules.
12
And don't forget Your Khan, after the Invasion, ended up (literally) "in bed" with those traitorous Wolves. 
