318 replies to this topic

[CoffiNail]

Well, I like the sounds of that, what interview is this from?

It almost sounds like a 'claim target' button may actually make it in.

[Stormwolf]

CoffiNail, on 17 January 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Well, I like the sounds of that, what interview is this from?

It almost sounds like a 'claim target' button may actually make it in.

Yes, you came up with that one a month or so ago didn't you?

[Drizz]

Bah clan tubebabys Honar is for fools i will do what it takes to win freedom for my world and people
When our enemys are dead my people can live With Honar then !!!

Edited by Drizz, 17 January 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

question; the clanner can have every intent of challenging someone - but what happens when the IS player says no?
I totally agree with clanners being rewarded for dueling; however that assumes their intended target even wants to duel!
This is one of the biggest issues with zell; it requires both parties to acknowledge it - even the Total Warfare book (the bible
of Battletech) states that zell is optional to gameplay only used to enhance an experience but not necessary.

[Pariah Devalis]

I am sure it would not be too difficult to program the game to detect if a mech takes damage from more than one enemy within a given amount of time. A simple detection system like this can allow a clan warrior to both claim honor points for being the only one to inflict harm on a given enemy mech, as well as allow for an automated zellbrigen override if the clan machine gets damaged by two or more sources. That is really all that would be needed to enforce the bare bones honor rule of dueling. Honor point modifiers similar to the Team Battle/Attrition calculator in MW4 could make up for a tonnage difference between the two parties involved.

If the rewards for honorable fighting far outweigh the rewards for ganging up on someone without being ganged up on first, then it becomes an incentive to play honorably. Say, you gain X honor for a gang bang, but 4X honor for a duel, or perhaps 6X honor if the odds are two on one, with you being the one. 6X, not 8X, because, well, honor is to be rewarded, but stupidity is not. A flat multiplier might lead people to get greedy and go on 1v3s, and that just is not smart piloting and a likely waste of your mech as a resource.


And wastefulness is not a clan tradition.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 January 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Fiachdubh]

Virgil Caine, on 09 January 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Zellbrigen's rules generally get discarded very early on by Clan Players...

True but not an entirely fair sentiment, it would be nice if we could have whole matches with Zellbrigen and maybe it will happen in Clan vs Clan drops or possably against the more noble Kuritans but in general it does not last past contact against Inner Sphere units which is in keeping with Zelbrigen, the rules only apply until your opponant breaks them which is pretty much immediatly as IS pilots being sensible tend to concentrate fire on a single target straight away.

You will rarely see a drop where this does not happen so most of the time the Clan players are playing in character.
Of course this does not apply if the Clanners attack with concentrated fire or back shooting before the Spheroids do. In our closed CSR practice servers back in MW4 we usually followed Zellbrigen and I know some of the other Clans also did so while it was rare to make it through a drop with Zelbrigen intact many Clan units were playing in character the whole (well most of the) time. Unfortunatly you are also right that we will see plenty of the 'I wantz the cool stuff' crowd but hopefully they can be 'contained'.

Also depending on what Clan a pilot belongs to the applical Zelbrigen rules can be pretty loose and not too far from IS tactics and many Clans wont even bother with Zelbrigen at all when dealing with the Bandit Caste.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 20 January 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[Madness]

As a photographer turned mech-pilot, I've had my share of "honorable" pilots stamp my equipment underfoot just as much as I've had Loner's, Mercs or straight up rogue elements.

To me, loyalty is overrated. Honor is a handicap. A win is me being alive at the end of the day. Preferably richer.

[CG Anastasius Focht]

I was taught never kick a man when he's down......unless....... It looks like hes going to get up again lol

There were times in MW4 when if during a one on one my opponent shut down, i would circle him/her holding fire until they powered up again,
But only if i was confident i would win anyway, if that person was beating the combat shorts off me, i was less inclined to do so.

Years ago i parked my camper van next to a river and in the morning woke up to find it had risen and the van was now in the river.
Eventually a farmer brought a tractor and towed me out, i remember what he said when i offered to pay him for the help.

He said son, one day you will see someone who needs help, if you can do so at no cost to you, no skin off your nose, do so, and we will be square.
Its a debt i pay whenever i can to this very day, thus if its not going to disadvantage me, i dont mind cutting a player some slack.
Call it honour or good sportsmanship, or weak and foolish, makes no difference to me.
If on the other hand the opponent is miles ahead of me on the score ladder, then its no quarter given, none asked for

Edited by [CG]Anastasius Focht, 20 January 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[Madness]

[CG]Anastasius Focht, on 20 January 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

I was taught never kick a man when he's down......unless....... It looks like hes going to get up again lol

Hey, if its a good day or a bad day for the other man, sure, the patience is there. But while I can respect those who go the extra mile to pinpoint the accuracy of their weapons, limits we hide behind the word honor is just irritating.

When those Clan goons honor not shooting at the building my camera roost is situated, maybe I'll pass them the same:)

[Morashtak]

A shutdown 'Mech that has taken no damage is playing possum "most of the time" (could be afk, disconnecting, etc). It constitutes a fair target tho' not an immediate threat. Will have to make a quick decision as to whether or not to put a couple of rounds in it. Probably won't if there are other hot targets in the area.

A 'Mech that is showing a lot of red and then shutting down I'll consider as yielding. Even tho' someone may take advantage of this I would rather show mercy than be a jark. Would like to think my opponents will do the same. If salvage rules ever make it into the game can see this being enforced by teammates and opponents.

Should I ever see someone deliberately aiming at ejecting pilots, especially those on the way down, I will call them out. Pilots will most likely be non-target-able and not take any damage but it's highly dishonorable in my book to shoot at a non-combatant.

Legging - discussed in another thread.

Clan honor rules - would love to see the bidding rule. Might discourage the mass exodus of IS pilots. Also, current game engines are powerful enough for tracking of weapon range and LoS. This could be helpful for the game mods to see who are honorable and who are not and reward the former without penalizing the latter.

Edited by Morashtak, 20 January 2012 - 05:55 PM.

[Alaskan Viking]

Warfare is a dirty, vulgar, inhumane busines. There hasn't been any "honour" to it since Stand Watie surrendered in '65. and it is good that it is so terrible, otherwise we may become to fond of it.

[guardian wolf]

Funny, I've seen bits of your post in various quotes, hmm, where did I put that....

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

I would also love to see bidding have a place. I am particularly fond of being outnumbered (My friends and I enjoy taking on high school kids 3 against 8 in paintball, for example). I share a similar concern with many other people, in that many tech-crased players may flock to the Clans just for the ER and lightweight weapons. Yes, I also love the Clan tech, but a large part of my joining the Clans is because of the history, and I cannot see myself connecting to the game well fighting for one of the Houses. I will be greatly saddened if there are few true, honourable warriors joining the Clan ranks.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Morashtak, on 20 January 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

A 'Mech that is showing a lot of red and then shutting down I'll consider as yielding. Even tho' someone may take advantage of this I would rather show mercy than be a jark. Would like to think my opponents will do the same. If salvage rules ever make it into the game can see this being enforced by teammates and opponents.

If an enemy 'Mech is heavily damaged, they will likely go into a "last stand" mode, and I would not be surprised to see an overheat. If I saw one shutting down, I would expect them to be back up and firing within moments, and unless they stay in shutdown, they would be recieving the wrath of my cannons before they could come back online.

[guardian wolf]

Well said Alaric, though the only part I would disagree on is that I would probably just stick with Wolf's Dragoons if clans aren't playable. And if the ***** across from me enters "last stand" mode, I'll give him warning that if does not accept hegira, I will kill him efficiently as possible.

[Semyon Drakon]

people seem to be under the misapprehension that Zellbrigen is a two way street.

It's not.

It would be perfectly canon for a Clan warrior, especially from the jade falcons to designate a target, and concentrate on that to the exclusion of all others EVEN IF other IS pilots fired on him. he would be relying on his star mates to be shooting those guys anyway and would take his target out first before switching to an unengaged enemy.

It would take the senior commander on the field to speak the ritual words to open it into a free for all then god help the IS forces because the artificial limiting goes away.

There are exceptions of course, Clan Wolf will just toss Zellbrigen over their shoulders and pile in. Good military sense but possibly making them dezgra in the eyes of other clans. Smoke Jags tend to lose the plot and shoot anything that moves. Not to sure about Ghost bears and Nova Cats, been a while since I read up on them.

So whether your IS pilot bravely takes up the gauntlet and fights a duel of honour or not, your clan pilots can easily stick to Zell, earn kudos and still kick buttock and take names.

Semyon

[Rabbit Blacksun]

Oh i dunno ... look at CSF's mode of operation for an engagement ... we use swarm tactcs, but even that is honorable since most CSF pilots come in the catagory of light to medium fighters. There are the heavy pilots but as far as mechs go they barely have any heavy or assault level mechs. And yet they still will work within their limited levels of honor. being known as a merchant caste does not necesarily mean that they have no honor or no pilots, infact they are/where known for their military pilots.

back to the original topic at hand ...

While I think the Dev's could easily institute some form of reward system for clan pilots I think its going to be a complex situation since each of the clans has different set of what they consider honorable just as semyon pointed out, CSF uses light to mediums and swarm tactics, Falcons just blow everything up, wolves hunt in packs, Jades are just ... well they are voilent ... so its down to basically what the pilots or commanders themselves do and what brings them to their own clans sense of honor.

Lets face it ... A CSF pilot (playing true to CSF methods) would be in a light and going zellbrigan against a CSR in an assault would be tantamount to suicide, this would not bring the CSF pilot honor, it will simply kill him or her, but honor wise a pair of lights going against an assault have a chance at success, granted its small but its there, and they are still waaaay under the weight of the assault and more then likely their weapons are waaaay under what the assault is packing as well.

[Joanna Conners]

Even though MWO is a game, war isn't. I wouldn't fire on an enemy that surrendered, but anyone capable of fighting represents a threat that needs to be eliminated. If that means resorting to trickery, ambushes, etc... then I'm going to do so.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

thats not trickery ... thats intelligence ... you do what it takes to come home alive

[Joanna Conners]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 02 February 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

thats not trickery ... thats intelligence ... you do what it takes to come home alive

My idea of a "beautiful death" is surrounded by loved ones in my old age while I peacefully slip away.