318 replies to this topic

[Jaroth Corbett]

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ahhh the art of deflection and slander good job loremaster......... so in order for this to end I will not allow you to try to misquote or cut, copy, & paste.

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slan·der
noun

a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report

It would have to be false to be slander. I have deflected nothing. You still have not told me what quote I did not get correct.

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I will be the honorable one and say best of luck warrior I hope you find true honor on the field of battle.

And you as well. You were never labelled as dezgra & I have never had a problem with you. I think I made it clear who my problem was with.

[ejw0508]

not bad but from where I sit you used slander as a verb (used with object) to utter slander against; defame. As for dezgra I am not worried. As for the problem part... well this is what you started. As for misquotes go back to #229ish & #230ish you refused to get all of the facts in ts3 and started this mud slinging campaign within 12 hrs on a public forums. In short we gave YOU jaroth the chance to settle the matter honorably. And yet the personal attacks on KIttenkrusher continued. (eg spacifically directed at kittenkrusher) is that not a breach of the rules of this forum?.. loremaster. So again there is no honor in your claims by yourself or coffinail. p.s. nice editing hind sight is fantastic isn't it...

[guardian wolf]

Seriously? I made a thread for this BS....

[Jaroth Corbett]

I thought he was done.

ejw0508, on 26 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

ahhh the art of deflection and slander good job loremaster......... so in order for this to end I will not allow you to try to misquote or cut, copy, & paste. I will be the honorable one and say best of luck warrior I hope you find true honor on the field of battle.

He said best of luck, then i reciprocated.

229 & 230

ejw0508, on 21 October 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

jaroth where you not invited to ts last night by us so you could get the answers from the horse's mouth??? yes you where and now this???? there is no honor in your claims....

Kittenkrusher, on 21 October 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

I did not at any point "HAVE" to leave Jaroth, i chose to leave ...... you started this argument with a personal attack and keep it going with baseless accusation, which part of this looks good for you?? Guardian wolf is correct ...if you were as good a pilot as you were at running your mouth you wouldnt need to fight your wars on the forums with 1244 posts of baseless hatemongering. How did you end up with Ghostbear ... i remember you being with Clan wolf ...are you Dezgra with clan wolf then? Since for leaving Ghostbear i am apparently dezgra. this is the last you will hear from me as i realize i also am at fault for taking up these peoples thread nad going way off topic .. to the rest of you i apologize.

Not seeing what you are referring to seeing as these are not my words.

AGAIN, slander has to be false. Learn to comprehend.

You seem to be very confused. I saw Kitten making a post about honor & I replied to that.

My claims are accurate. The proof is all over the internet. You have nothing to stand on because all the facts help my case. It is not my fault you chose to follow him all over the place. The truth is the truth & the truth hurts.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 26 October 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[Threat Doc]

guardian wolf, on 26 October 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Seriously? I made a thread for this BS....

My recommendation is just to let it go. I've made threads that have very quickly spun out of control. In fact, I have one thread that has not, thus far, been [bothered]. [Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 27 October 2013 - 06:32 AM.
Unconstructive Comments

[Pariah Devalis]

Or, as hard as it is for a Nova Cat to say this, we can make like the Smoke Jaguars, glass this miserable hell hole, and rebuild.

[John Wolf]

Good Morning!

Stopped in here to make some comments. Remember, this is a discussion about honor in the game, and if it has a place. That is the topic, and posts should remain constructive and on topic. If your posts are about a specific individual, or targeting players, that is unconstructive and not on topic.

I cannot see any posts on this page about the topic it was started for. If the discussion is over, we can close down this thread and permit everyone to move onto other threads.

So, lets see some honor and respect from all parties.

Thanks for your time everyone.

[dal10]

there are 3 posts...

also, all closing this thread down would do is shunt the argument from this thread to another one. It would most likely be better to just leave it open so it doesn't poison other threads.

also, still really tame for an argument.

[Threat Doc]

Well, there was a LOT more than three posts, but I agree we should likely get back on-topic, here. Unfortunately, I think I've had my say. Considering this conversation's been going for over 21 months, now, I'd say that's a pretty good run.

The most basic bits this thread boils down to is that there are players who believe absolutely anything goes and nothing done should be seen as problematic, and then there are some who believe that honor is a corporate affair, developed and regulated by those in positions of authority, there are some who believe in rules formed by the community and held to on an individual basis, and finally some who believe that honor is to the individual only, for their own regulation and care. No one is defining which is right or wrong, or for what reasons, and it's difficult to pay attention to the several definitions because of arguments.

This is the way it is with all manner of philosophy.

Does that seem like a good synopsis of the thread?

[ElCadaver]

Honor might be a system that diehard grognards of Mechwarrior and battletech would follow (those who know the lore and have read the books).

Unfortunately those people (mostly the founders) have been shunned by PGI as not being the target market for MWO Online.

Good luck trying to prompt an Honor system from spoilt kids with rich parents who want to ROLF Stomp, pwn noobs, omg Haxor, wtf QQ, die {Dezgra} in game.

[dal10]

Kay Wolf, on 27 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Well, there was a LOT more than three posts, but I agree we should likely get back on-topic, here. Unfortunately, I think I've had my say. Considering this conversation's been going for over 21 months, now, I'd say that's a pretty good run.

The most basic bits this thread boils down to is that there are players who believe absolutely anything goes and nothing done should be seen as problematic, and then there are some who believe that honor is a corporate affair, developed and regulated by those in positions of authority, there are some who believe in rules formed by the community and held to on an individual basis, and finally some who believe that honor is to the individual only, for their own regulation and care. No one is defining which is right or wrong, or for what reasons, and it's difficult to pay attention to the several definitions because of arguments.

This is the way it is with all manner of philosophy.

Does that seem like a good synopsis of the thread?

wolf specified on this page. prior to his comment there were only 3.

[Threat Doc]

Yes. Thank you for the clarification.

[Prussian Havoc]

Kay Wolf, on 27 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

...Does that seem like a good synopsis of the thread?

Yes, you provided an excellent synopsis. Thank you.

IMHO honor is multifaceted: the Honor (or not) we attempt to live under, the Honor (or not) others perceive us to live under, the Honor (or not) we prove we live under as evidenced by our actions not by our words (or flaming, troll-like posts!)

At the end of the day Honor is where you find it:

Individually is the most base level and everyone possesses it even trolls as they turn off their computers self-satisfied in the false-hope they had further damaged another's beloved game.

Gamers / Moderators / Developers ascribe to a higher form of Honor which builds from their collective perceptions of their individual sense of Honor toward a greater, common goal of a shared-communal-sense of Honor.

Personally I intend to contribute to / assist in the maintenance and growth of both the MWO and MWT gaming communities... do you?

#DontBaTroll !

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 27 October 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pariah Devalis, on 26 October 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

This thread has become less of one discussing honor and more of discussing one specific individual's honor. An individual that, by the information being aired here, is not even worth the effort to discuss about in the first place. Seems to me if this discussion was to continue, it should have been made into its own circle of equals thread about 5 pages back.

Though true, One's Honor is very telling. So If someone is claiming honor in the face of dishonorable actions... Actions do speak louder than words.

[Pariah Devalis]

Yes, but again, this thread was supposed to be about clan honor in general. Not of an individual in specific. The obsessive return to the individual's honor issue is well past ridiculous, and is shedding poor light on all parties that participate in the lynching at this point.

At some point, all of you need to let it go or take it elsewhere. It is inappropriate now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 October 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Yes, but again, this thread was supposed to be about clan honor in general. Not of an individual in specific. The obsessive return to the individual's honor issue is well past ridiculous, and is shedding poor light on all parties that participate in the lynching at this point.

At some point, all of you need to let it go or take it elsewhere. It is inappropriate now.

Well the Individual reflects on the whole, so how each of us conduct ourselves either brighten or dulls the community as a whole. So a member of a Clan must uphold the honor of the Clan or face the results.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 October 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Why? Are you trying to tell me the Clans are the only ones with honor? Let's talk about Clan honor... how can a tube-born slave have honor?

Honor cannot be grown in a tube, it has to be born from truth and love, the parameters of which have to be imparted to the child, teaching the child how to learn honor. Honor IS an INDIVIDUAL endeavor, borne of the community in which the honorable individual lives, and having a drill sergeant, or even a group of drill sergeants, from the time an individual is able to walk, is not a way to impart any decent modicum of honor. The solid component of having a regular, pre-teen life is important. Zell might be the written component of what the Clans might believe is honor, but that written component is both incomplete, in the extreme, and it is not left to the individual to define themselves by their honor. No, it is up to their trainers, it is propaganda, it is fascism, and thus is not honor at all.

So, individual honor is the ONLY thing that can be addressed in this thread and, as such, the Clans should not even be discussed here, at all.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kay is right. Honor is taught to us. But not always from our parents. A lot of honor is however taught in Bootcamp, and to those who didn't learn it prior, got a very painful lesson from DI an platoon mates alike.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Kay Wolf, on 28 October 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

Why? Are you trying to tell me the Clans are the only ones with honor? Let's talk about Clan honor... how can a tube-born slave have honor?

Honor cannot be grown in a tube, it has to be born from truth and love, the parameters of which have to be imparted to the child, teaching the child how to learn honor. Honor IS an INDIVIDUAL endeavor, borne of the community in which the honorable individual lives, and having a drill sergeant, or even a group of drill sergeants, from the time an individual is able to walk, is not a way to impart any decent modicum of honor. The solid component of having a regular, pre-teen life is important. Zell might be the written component of what the Clans might believe is honor, but that written component is both incomplete, in the extreme, and it is not left to the individual to define themselves by their honor. No, it is up to their trainers, it is propaganda, it is fascism, and thus is not honor at all.

So, individual honor is the ONLY thing that can be addressed in this thread and, as such, the Clans should not even be discussed here, at all.

Firstly this IS the Clan section so YES we will be discussing Clan honor & your tone is out of order given the facts of the Inner Sphere. Four Successions Wars + One Kentares Massacre (oh btw that was committed by the DC who were noted as the most honorable of the IS factions given they follow bushido) = an OK Corral landscape where anything & everything goes. Battles are fought without regard for either the lives that will be lost (both military & civilian) or the infrastructure.

Secondly trueborn or freeborn, the individual growing up in the Clan sees the actions of others in their community & learns from it. It becomes their nature. So seeing the people titled "warriors", fight in such a way that lessens the troops that will be killed or injured, that reduces damage to the infrastructure in the vicinity & takes great care to avoid civilian casualties by holding the fights in areas not populated by said civilians, they are instilled with the honor that way of life shows itself to be. That those who woudl style themselves their leaders actually fight to protect their lives, their commerce & trade, their research & development etc.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 28 October 2013 - 07:06 AM.