153 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

When the MadCat arrives in the Innersphere, when you shoot down the LRM launchers are they part of the torso or should they be a seperate entity.

-The suggestion of arms come partly from the having the Catapult LRM launcher as part of its arm.
-4th option of the LRM launchers being part of the side torso and leaving the sides of the MadCat cockpit as CT makes the Madcat easier to kill as per lore.

edit: added 3rd question

Edited by Yeach, 09 January 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[Cik]

*timber wolf

also seperate hitbox. they aren't really a part of the torso. MWLL has an external pod system, and it works.

[Zervziel]

I still prefer the MW4 part where it has it's own hit box.

[Phelan Kerensky]

I believe the Timber Wolf should follow BT/TT Lore and be part of the Torsos. I also believe that because they are one with the torsos that both(being the same hitbox/thing)should have the same amount of armor, when you remove armor from the left torso you also remove armor from the Missile Rack. At a certain point of damage to the Torso the Missile Pack should be "Blown Off" and not useable, with a possible ammo explosion...

[Buzzkillin]

Better leaving it as seperate hit boxes, because the Mad Cat does have weapons in the arms (obviously), and weapons in the left and right torso. Combining the launchers to ethier the torso or arms will end up loosing to many weapons to quickly when destroyed.

[VYCanis]

voted for separate hitboxes, mainly because having it stick out there the way it does makes it a particularly juicy target and an overly easy way of crippling the entire side torso otherwise.

furthermore it doesn't make much sense why your "nose mounted" equipment, engine crits, or what have you located around the core torso torso area would be destroyed simply blowing apart that LRM 15. or whatever gets stuffed into the ear boxes.

[Corsair114]

If you make the whole "fuselage" CT, and the ears the side torsos, I guarantee you, Mad Cats will become a very rare species of 'mech very, very quickly. It'd be far too much of a penalty to them to be designed that way, I think, as (even with relatively low accuracy weapons) you'd have very little-to-no trouble coring it.

[VYCanis]

voted separate hitboxes.

mainly because those ear boxes make for a super easy way to clearly gut the side torsos otherwise.

also logically, it doesn't make much sense why blowing out those pods (that look rather compartmentalized away from the rest of the body) should result in engine damage and loss of nose mounted weapons or equipment mounted closer to the body.

however depending on how customization ends up going, armor allocation should be up to the player, or even if they want to have the boxes at all. allowing for "earless" timberwolves if desired.

destroying a side torso though should disable the attached box.

Edited by VYCanis, 09 January 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Ceefood]

I dont see the point of this really maybe I dont understand the wording for the choices - my reason for not understanding is the missile pods were part of the side torsos in TT rules - they just were above the torsos for looks - like the warhammer did with the srm6 or the catapult did with its missile pods - they were listed as arms but really looked like shoulders.

So when you hit the side torso which includes the missile pods you hit side torso armour - once the armour is gone then you get chances for criticals & once internal structure is gone so are all the weapons & the corresponding arm - just like in the TT rules.

why does it need to be anything else? hits to side torso could be done with MW 1 & since then so why would it be wrongor need to change now?

[VYCanis]

because they create a very easily exploited shortcut means of easily screwing with madcats otherwise?

think about it. those LRM ears jut out, they tend to be the first thing that pokes up over hills, they are big enough to be very easily targeted, far enough away from the rest of the body where you immediately know that if you hit it, you won't be hitting arms or CT, and you can target it from any direction relative to the facing of the mech.

and if you concentrate on it, you can easily and intentionally gut the entire side far more easily than with most other mechs.

with most other mechs, aiming at a side torso usually results in some of the hits hitting the CT or the attached arm, just by how the mech is shaped and how people are moving.

same should probably apply to other mechs with pods that kinda jut out there. cause otherwise those extensions are like sticking a foot out so that a door can get slammed on it

Edited by VYCanis, 09 January 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[John Clavell]

External Pods would be a better way to do it.

[Adridos]

Separate hitbox, they have to have some weakness, right?

[Xenois Shalashaska]

The missile pods are exactly that. independent to the mech & attached. I wish they would make the game more simulated with various hit points to a mech & stop following a classic style of left torso, centre tosro & right torso damage metres. Maybe take it another step further with Upper left Torso, middle left torso & lower left torso metres. Upper centre torso, middle centre torso & lower centre torso. I would perfer a indicator of small diamond scales over the mech diagram to reference the damage taken. Makes the accuracy a neccisity for destroying mechs insted of twist torso shoot & quickly turn back to defend against timed attacks in repetition.

[Ceefood]

considering the devs have stated they are trying to return to TT rules where possible I doubt this will happen & I hope it doesnt - it would not be BT then. The missile pods are there for looks - they are part of the side torsos & they are exactly that - they are not independant they just were made to look that way for the sake of artwork - a cross of catapult & marauder

[Mason Grimm]

Ceefood, on 10 January 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

considering the devs have stated they are trying to return to TT rules where possible I doubt this will happen & I hope it doesnt - it would not be BT then. The missile pods are there for looks - they are part of the side torsos & they are exactly that - they are not independant they just were made to look that way for the sake of artwork - a cross of catapult & marauder

Gotta say I agree here.

Besides, realistically even if you DO make them a seperate hitbox the ammo has to be stored somewhere in that hitbox too and if the pods are gone then the ammo is gone = chances are the entire mech will be gone too (ammo explosions). Have you seen what full racks of LRM reloads are gonna do to you? "Oh but I'll slap CASE on it so that it doesn't blow anything up but that hitbox". This now becomes and exploit that you, the pilot, are using instead of the people who are attacking you. Learn to pilot the mech and use it for it's intended role not for sneaking around hills.

Yes it makes it difficult for you to sneak up to a hill and peak over witih all your weapons brought to bare and not giving you away however you gotta realize you are a giant machine of death, not a Force Recon infantry unit sneaking about.

I think if it's something aesthetic or non-weapon related then a seperate hitbox is fine (take the Warhammers light on the shoulder) but if it's a weapon, and you have to feed it with ammo, KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

[Tygrys]

I don't see why does everything have to be exactly the same way like in the TT game. I mean seriously - so what it was like that in TT, it doesn't make sense. Those missile pods are essentially disconnected from the mechs torso, they just sit on its shoulders.

I don't like that so many people want to cripple this mech so much (YES, it will really cripple the mech). MWLL basicly destroyed the prime Timber Wolf by making LRMs **** poor and now people want to make the Timber Wolf here bad too because "TT rules say so". For once try to think a bit with logic and the TT rules aren't logical all the time. Unless you want the same story as with the Tiger in WoT, which was essentially just there so you can skip it as quickly as possible to get the King Tiger.

[Mason Grimm]

Tygrys, on 10 January 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

I don't see why does everything have to be exactly the same way like in the TT game. I mean seriously - so what it was like that in TT, it doesn't make sense. Those missile pods are essentially disconnected from the mechs torso, they just sit on its shoulders.

I don't like that so many people want to cripple this mech so much (YES, it will really cripple the mech). MWLL basicly destroyed the prime Timber Wolf by making LRMs **** poor and now people want to make the Timber Wolf here bad too because "TT rules say so". For once try to think a bit with logic and the TT rules aren't logical all the time. Unless you want the same story as with the Tiger in WoT, which was essentially just there so you can skip it as quickly as possible to get the King Tiger.

Normally I try not to post twice in a thread with only one respond in between but when someone throws down the Logic Gauntlet™ I just have to rear my ugly bald head!

Say we do it how you want; we make sure that the weapon pods are separate hitboxs and don't affect the torso at all because "they are disconnected". That means, due to their size, they probably get less armor than the torso right?

KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

You have been hit while sneaking around a hill because someone saw your bulky pods moving in the distance. Now what are you going to do? Your reloads have just suffered an ammo explosion since the "pod" was wiped out. This damage transfers inwards, as per core rules (and even logic dictates you cannot ignore this rule).

Now what does your logic tell you?

"But but but but the clans have CASE and that protects the rest of the mech since only the section with the ammo is destroyed (to paraphrase this rule)". Great, so now you have created a weapon system with no negative drawbacks to it's use. Essentially an "I win cause I can sneak around anywhere and still have my missiles fire without worrying about taking any damage rendering me combat ineffective" button.

It is what it is. This is how the mech was designed.

People will still play the machine becaue they love the look of it or they want to be Aiden Pryde or whatever their reasons are. The mech is still effective when used in it's proper roles.

Edited by Mason Grimm, 10 January 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[Beren Valari]

Ceefood, on 09 January 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I dont see the point of this really maybe I dont understand the wording for the choices - my reason for not understanding is the missile pods were part of the side torsos in TT rules - they just were above the torsos for looks - like the warhammer did with the srm6 or the catapult did with its missile pods - they were listed as arms but really looked like shoulders.

So when you hit the side torso which includes the missile pods you hit side torso armour - once the armour is gone then you get chances for criticals & once internal structure is gone so are all the weapons & the corresponding arm - just like in the TT rules.

why does it need to be anything else? hits to side torso could be done with MW 1 & since then so why would it be wrongor need to change now?

Maybe in the TT they were above the torso for looks but in a real time game the "looks" become a lot more important...

[VYCanis]

who says the reloads are kept in the launcher pods? The launchers are heavily implied in multiple examples of art to be fed from the rest of the torso closer to the body

if anything... there should be some cool explosion for the launcher itself, but not like an actual full blown cookoff.

[Dihm]

Eh, having it as a separate hit box/pod gives the Timber Wolf free armor, that seems like cheating. No free armor for Clans please. It's part of the side torso.

That said, I'm not opposed to them increasing the number of hit boxes for all mechs, as long as they keep the armor ratio constant across everything.

Edited by Dihm, 10 January 2012 - 06:44 AM.