45 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Many videogames have some kind of weapon acting as a bright, flashing flare that bleaches-out your vision for a short time.

In most games these flares are useless to the player because AI opponents don't use real vision... but since MWO will be entirely player-vs-player, then a blinding flare weapn would be very, very useful; especially in a game dominated by "Information Warfare" where direct line-of-sight engagements depend on "sight."

This is how I see it: a scout fires a flare-type weapon at an opponent, and as the flare approaches in proximity to the opponent's cockpit their vision becomes increasingly bleached-white and slowly returns to normal, leaving behind a very slowly fading green-and-red spot (you know, just like a spot that gets burned into your vision after looking at a lightbulb or something bright) that persists exactly where that flare was in relation to your visual field. If the flare comes at you from the front left, then the greenish/red spot would be on the left side of your pilot's field of view, and it will remain there, on the left side of your monitor, even if the pilot looks around in their cockpit because the spot is burned into your pilot's eyes so it should remain right there until it's finally faded away.

Edit: Some have said that Mech cockpits have self-tinting glass that would mitigate this effect during daytime engagements. It still would be effective at night to completely bleach-out Light Amplification systems. Also, I think the self-dimming cockpit glass would become too dark to see through at night whilst a flare is traveling in your direction.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 10 January 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[SquareSphere]

i initially voted no because blind/stun mechanics are ALWAYS abused in online games if they're spamable. I thought about it and it would be nice if there was some way to obscure vision without being explotive just so we could get past the trench based sniping of past MW multiplayer.

Comes down to implementation along with it's risk versus reward.

[NotNewHere]

I think it could work, bearing in mind you would need a perfect cockpit hit. This would be made even harder by the relatively slow travel time of missile weapons.

I remember doing this to someone in MW4M, It was hilarious seeing a blind Diemos stumbling around... Until the flare ran out and it cored me.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yup, I was thinking specifically of an unguided rocket of some kind with a slow rate of fire that only works effectively if the flare passes within a close distance to the target cockpit [so you can't blind whole enemy Lances with a single passing shot]. I think the effects of the flare should be from having it pass by your eyes instead of relying on a direct hit, just like a real flare. The flare weapon would not be a damage-causing weapon even if you make a perfect impact.

The risks could possibly include self-blinding if the rocket directly impacts a target and makes a small bright explosion that brielfy blinds the pilot who fired the shot [and all of his own lancemates] who are looking directly at the impact sight.

I'm sure the bugs can be worked out. This would also be awesome for Solaris tournaments.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 10 January 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

How about instead of a Flare have the cockpit glass react to any Laser/Missile impact with a tinting affect that slowly returns to normal. Perhaps the larger the Laser the heavier the Tint and longer lasting the affect.

It would also provide instant feed back to the pilot of a head/cockpit shot as opposed to the normal, RED blinking indicator, on the Head section of your Mech after getting rocked heavily and then looking to the console to see where that hard hit landed exactly.

Flare abuse would suck and it/would quickly become a grievers tool for certain if allowed.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 10 January 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[Mason Grimm]

SquareSphere, on 10 January 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

i initially voted no because blind/stun mechanics are ALWAYS abused in online games if they're spamable. I thought about it and it would be nice if there was some way to obscure vision without being explotive just so we could get past the trench based sniping of past MW multiplayer.

Comes down to implementation along with it's risk versus reward.

This.

[Hayden]

I voted maybe. I'd like the idea of flares being implemented in night combat, and maybe bleaching out night vision if the player looks in the general direction of the flare. But I don't think it should be spammable. Maybe only one or two per player per match, if it's a "module"? I don't think it should be standard equipment.

[guardian wolf]

What hayden said, but also, if it's at night, it should only work if the enemy's mech looks right at it, or if it is using night vision (favorite tactic of mine on noobs). Also it shouldn't be spammable, like make it a module that directs it at the enemy or into the air, but it must have a long reload, and the rest of the timing should be up to the devs to decide.

[BarHaid]

Using flares against a Night Vision Module Upgrade could work well. It would give others a reason to have big standard searchlights. Sure you're visble to everybody, but you can't be blinded either.

[Sug]

I say yes if they're implemented correctly. The last developer blog mentioned we'd be getting Night Vision, Thermal Vision, and Magscan.

The lore mentions several times how cockpit glass dims to prevent glare from blinding the pilot so I don't think they should have a negative impact under normal vision mode.

Night Vision should be negatively affected. Possibly Thermal, maybe the flares could be used as decoys? Flares should have no affect on magscan.

[Adridos]

I think it would be nice,but you should follow two things.

You must be sure it is in canon lore and the fact it only works when you hit the cockpit and has really limited ammo.

[John Clavell]

Ahhh, brings back memories of the chain firing flare ravens.

[Datum]

I will take a light mech, load the whole dang thing full of flares, and explode into a blinding light as I run in front of an assault lance.

That is what will happen if it is implemented, so prepare for spammers.

[UncleKulikov]

I would say yes, because no one would want something in the game if it was unbalanced.
Of course it should be balanced, having some sort of cooldown or ammunition or both.

[VYCanis]

flares would be nice and all... but wouldn't spraying a mech in the face with a Flamer or inferno SRM do just as well, plus the added benefit of roasting your target?

[UncleKulikov]

VYCanis, on 10 January 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

flares would be nice and all... but wouldn't spraying a mech in the face with a Flamer or inferno SRM do just as well, plus the added benefit of roasting your target?

Maybe. A flare launcher could be more versatile, though if there are multiple ammunition types that could work quite well.

[MacKoga]

There are a few aspects two this:

Just calling something "a flare" doesn't make sense for what is proposed. Think about it: if right next to your cockpit, you've got a pod of missiles that fire off, and those don't blind you, why would "a flare?"

But that said, the books sometimes talk about various sensors, and jamming those sensors could be neat, if implemented right. Some of this might be relevant for actual seeing/targeting, some of it might be more for proper ranged sensor function, maybe even interferring with proper friend/foe autorecognition systems.
On sensor/detection/gameplay possibilities:

* Visual: I'd be interested in visibility-shortening, area based smoke effects (as a launcher system, but also if you set forests/fuel depots on fire). I'd also like mech-specific visibility issues if they're hit with Infernos/flamers, but bearing in mind that a mech does have other sensors with which to see.

* Thermal sensors: they'd be screwed up by flamers/Infernos, not detect powered down mechs, sneaking around under water, and not be useful in areas with a lot of heat sources, such as fighting an industrial center, BUT what's really cool is that thermal sensors should be able to detect heat rising off a mech over the mech -- i.e. detect that there is something hot on the other side of a building, hiding in some trees, etc. It would be neat if heat clouds had some had some lag to their rise.

* Magnetic: this was used as a key point in one of the book arcs, in which it detected hidden mechs waiting buried underground. It didn't know what type they were, or their exact locations, just that they were there. I would expect magnetic sensors to not be as useful within a city, or if an opponent uses metalic chaff as part of a smoke screen (maybe giving a false positive for mech presence, if the sensing mech is outside the metalic smoke cloud, or maybe temporarily blocking the sensor if the mech is within the cloud).

I think there's room to provide some new, canon dimensions to sensors in game that add fun and tactics without bogging things down, if implemented right.

[Ralinos]

What about non-combat flares? If I'm scouting and come across a lance that's running passive-sensors and dark, launching a flare to light up where there are would work wonders.

[Alaskan Viking]

NO on giant robot flash bangs,

YES on smoke and ECM.

[Alaskan Viking]

Ralinos, on 10 January 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

What about non-combat flares? If I'm scouting and come across a lance that's running passive-sensors and dark, launching a flare to light up where there are would work wonders.

Chrome Hounds had that, they were very fun on night maps.