600 replies to this topic

[Vexgrave Lars]

In relation to the Teamwork part of the game, Recovery respawn is the way to go. IF a team member can reach a downed mech, they can "rescue the pilot" who must then be returned to a spawn point to rejoin the match. no handoffs or flakey crap, if you rescuc a pilot you have to return him. Also make having a few recovery light mechs on the field worth the loss of mass on the battlefield. The respawning pilot should get to choose from a designated reserve mech of the same wight class as his starter. THIS SHOULD WORK ONCE. Once the reserve is spent.. your done.

Whatever the determined XP losses for using the reserve should be handed to the rescuing mech, again promoting unity and teamwork.

What to do if your stuck waiting.. well.. Its a big internet and with TS/Mumble ect.. you should stay tactical, to see how your teams doing.

Geez, wheres the commitment! This is internet Robot gnag bnag for Hyperpulse sakes!

[Listless Nomad]

I know it's been explicitly stated that they don't want any gameplay outside of the mech - but this proposal would add some fun and make gameplay a little more tactical.

Say the only way to survive your mech dying was to make a conscious decision to eject. You don't eject - you die and you must spectate the rest of the match. If you do eject - you have to run around on the ground back to the drop point (wherever your team started on the map). If you make it back there - you can respawn with your mech. If you are kiled - you spectate the rest of the match. This would add some excitement, make people think about when to eject - and give those mechs with machine guns something to do. Plus - imagine the perspective of running around between the footfalls of gigantic mechs as they battle (hopefully) oblivious to you running around.

As a pilot on the ground however - you have no power armor, no weapons, no possible way to influence the battle - just try to get back to your mech. The argument could be made that people could abuse it by punching out and hiding in some trees to spy on the enemy on TS. But ideally the map would be so large, and mechs fast enough, that a person on foot couldnt keep up and wouldn't be of much help on that front.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 19 January 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Chuckie]

Vexgrave Lars, on 19 January 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

In relation to the Teamwork part of the game, Recovery respawn is the way to go.

The rest of your post would be a bit tricky to code, and more problems than it is worth..

As I mentioned before a respawn of your mech in the hanger/dropship, complete with sustained injuries requiring of repair would be the simplest way to achieve the same basic affect. It also allows for the fact that some mechs will be easier (and thus cheaper) to reload and repair, while some will be harder and more expensive.

So how long it takes to come back to the battlefield would be directly affected by:

1) Amount of damage taken

2) Where the critical damage was taken and how disabilitating it was (I.E. Repairing the cockpit from a lucky head shot or replacing a leg on a light mech vs repairing a complete right torso and AC20 of a hunchback would take mechanics a different amount of time and COST to repair)

3) Size of Mech- Bigger and more complicated they are the more expensive and time consuming to repair.

4) How many C-bills you have (And this is where F2P comes into play)

To make it fair for all F2P players and such each player starts with "X" number of C-Bills per round (Enough to repair and reload ONCE). So if you didn't earn enough C-bills in your last fight.. one respawn and done. If you earned C-Bills (or have them in the bank from previous rounds or purchased from store with real $$) you can repair as often as you have C-bills for. THIS would not affect play and yet would give PGI a way to make money on the F2P system. Hard core players that like to play but arent necessarily great would be able to pay real world $$ for the privilege to stay in the game longer. Hard core gamers with time on their hands could earn them the old fashioned way by A - Simply not dying or B - Earning C-bills by playing more often.

So some guys may respawn in Mech Bay and be broke, or have only enough to get thier Raven a new leg, or Atlas a new cockpit but not fix armor in the rear torso, etc.. etc.. etc.. but they can at least get back in the game and maybe earn some more C-Bills or loyalty points.

There would also be the option that teams and lances could give the poor saps money to repair thier Mech if they need it on the battlefield. Similar to MW:LL when better players "donate" to help others in thier lance repair.

I think this makes for a very balanced system, that provides a way for PGI to make some money, and keeps all players involved until the end of the mission.

What do you all think of that kind of system..? I personally think this would really be immersive and a great way to handle deaths / spawning issues..

Edited by Chuckie, 19 January 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[Chuckie]

Omigir, on 19 January 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

zorak ramone I would recommend every one go back and read the conversation between me and Zorak, you will see that respawn does have a place and it is possible.

(NOTE: Mason I deliberately didnt use multi-quote because didnt want this lost in the previously long post )


I went back as best I could.. From what I read it seemed as you were in the NO SPAWN camp.. ?!?

Have you come to the dark side and agreed with something like I posted above..?

Something where Death is painful and incorporates repair, or time or etc..

So respawning is not as simple as just respawning and running out with a shiny new mech to be B*t*h slapped not 2 minutes later..

[Omigir]

Listless Nomad, on 19 January 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

There are 28 pages - got a general idea where that conversation happened? I'm interested in seeing what your thoughts were.

Yeah, 23/24/25 or so not that far back.

[Omigir]

Chuckie, on 19 January 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

The rest of your post would be a bit tricky to code, and more problems than it is worth..

As I mentioned before a respawn of your mech in the hanger/dropship, complete with sustained injuries requiring of repair would be the simplest way to achieve the same basic affect. It also allows for the fact that some mechs will be easier (and thus cheaper) to reload and repair, while some will be harder and more expensive.

So how long it takes to come back to the battlefield would be directly affected by:

1) Amount of damage taken

2) Where the critical damage was taken and how disabilitating it was (I.E. Repairing the cockpit from a lucky head shot or replacing a leg on a light mech vs repairing a complete right torso and AC20 of a hunchback would take mechanics a different amount of time and COST to repair)

3) Size of Mech- Bigger and more complicated they are the more expensive and time consuming to repair.

4) How many C-bills you have (And this is where F2P comes into play)

To make it fair for all F2P players and such each player starts with "X" number of C-Bills per round (Enough to repair and reload ONCE). So if you didn't earn enough C-bills in your last fight.. one respawn and done. If you earned C-Bills (or have them in the bank from previous rounds or purchased from store with real $$) you can repair as often as you have C-bills for. THIS would not affect play and yet would give PGI a way to make money on the F2P system. Hard core players that like to play but arent necessarily great would be able to pay real world $$ for the privilege to stay in the game longer. Hard core gamers with time on their hands could earn them the old fashioned way by A - Simply not dying or B - Earning C-bills by playing more often.

So some guys may respawn in Mech Bay and be broke, or have only enough to get thier Raven a new leg, or Atlas a new cockpit but not fix armor in the rear torso, etc.. etc.. etc.. but they can at least get back in the game and maybe earn some more C-Bills or loyalty points.

There would also be the option that teams and lances could give the poor saps money to repair thier Mech if they need it on the battlefield. Similar to MW:LL when better players "donate" to help others in thier lance repair.

I think this makes for a very balanced system, that provides a way for PGI to make some money, and keeps all players involved until the end of the mission.

What do you all think of that kind of system..? I personally think this would really be immersive and a great way to handle deaths / spawning issues..

This is one way to do or deal with what Zorak was explaining.

So yeah, more or less I understand Respawn has a place in MW:O. I still think there are some balancing issues with xp earned between the two spawning types. *shrugs* I'm still pulling for limited spawn or a hybrid type but the way it was explained could work.

Edited by Omigir, 19 January 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[Vexgrave Lars]

"Amount of damage taken" Relevant and makes sense, to account for that value in the code, each X-Number of C-Bill of Damage that the player cannot afford generates a wait timer, I support that.[/color]

"Where the critical damage was taken and how disabilitating it was (I.E. Repairing the cockpit from a lucky head shot or replacing a leg on a light mech vs repairing a complete right torso and AC20 of a hunchback would take mechanics a different amount of time and COST to repair)"

Code defining the minimum repairs to place the mech back in action without subverting the value of the damage its taken, thus generating No advantage for a "replacement" at 100% capability. Good with that too.[/color]

"3) Size of Mech- Bigger and more complicated they are the more expensive and time consuming to repair."Bueno!

"4) How many C-bills you have (And this is where F2P comes into play)" ok with this is, if thats the model so be it.

Now I have one other thing.. where does "Kill the meat save the metal" come in. If you dual headshot someone with an ERPPC from a Warhammer, thats a kill, not a disabled mech. Will it always be that people eject? seems a bit lame.. are the "EVE" clones going to be ingame? I don't remember that in my IS history books.

This was probably covered.. I haven't had a chance to read it. Anyone point it out to me?

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 19 January 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Vexgrave Lars]

... I was rereading the last 6 pages, took me a few. WOW! you are all awesome,! Assault tonnage of thinking going on bout this, nice that so many care where the games going. Rereading made me change my vote, meager though it is.

I think though it needs to come down to luck whether you re-spawn at all.

12 Point Headshot and your out, ejected, wounded and gone to the next match. To sooth my hardcore player inside.

Anything else, as above, depends on cost, repair, and supply for how long til your "repaired" enough to get back into action, not 100% repaired, just back up with damage... to sooth my need to be playing with people who feel challenged, enjoy success, learn from failure, and get appropriate FUN time in game. Without 14:40 left between matches cause a Catapult pimped them on a luck shot, every single time 5 matches running.

The mechanics should remain based on damage vs financial + team support means. Obviously you don't (shouldn't??) have to make the expenditure to respawn, and your team shouldn't be required to assist with repairs, but you should have a choice and the outcome of that choice should be reflective of those things.

Damage = X time for repairs
C-Bills expended = Y time for repairs reduced

Your Mech will be available in ZZZ Seconds
Prepare to Launch
Warning: Damage levels are dangerous
Your Weapons are on-line
have a nice battle Dave...

Engine start noise...

[Refizul]

Quote

Damage = X time for repairs
C-Bills expended = Y time for repairs reduced

So the team with more money wins? That seams like a pretty unbalanced idea. Especially if you can buy C-Bills for real money.

As Omigir has already said there are good ideas how to make respawn work in a objective based game mode in this thread (I would play it). But even those are not perfect. And I think nobody (or barely anyone) of the no respawn camp is of the opinion that no respawn game mode should ever be available in MWO. Just that the games that matter for the game world should not be watered down by simple endless respawn.

[Maximilian Thorn]

Although I personally feel respawns would break the rules of the game...(sigh)...if the Devs feel they HAVE to compromise, then the best option would be to offer hardcore servers (with no respawns allowed) and respawn servers (respawns under certain restrictions, such as the ones some have described in earlier posts).

On another note, someone earlier posted about a "persistent" world for this game. If you read the Devs' blods, MWO is not an MMO. They state that in order to have a true MMO, it would need a persistent game world. There is no persistent game world (although the Devs have said the Merc Corp battles for a border planet do come close). Per the Devs, there is no game outside your Mech. You cannot leave the game instance and "go explore" like in WOW, LOTRO, Everquest, Eve and so on. What we, the players, are really playing is an online game that provides a series of matches (whether 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, 8v8 or 12v12). The only game 'world' that exists is inside an instance. The instance may be relatively large...but it is just an instance...not a persistent world. Please read the Devs' blogs for more information.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Refizul, on 19 January 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

So the team with more money wins? That seams like a pretty unbalanced idea. Especially if you can buy C-Bills for real money.

Well, you want reality, that's usually it... Best supply lines usually provide the best equipment, or are you able to argue counter to that anywhere or anytime in the real world? Few are the times or places where an poorly provisioned force was able to defeat a prepared and provisioned opponent.

and note.. I didn't say they got brand new shiny gear, I said they get battlefield quality repairs.
The equality of game rules versus the perception of quality mechanics cannot use a providence of resources as the fulcrum of the decision. The resources are or are not available to a given team and their use should be determined by the members of a corp/team/group/player who has those resources, not by the game mechanic. Otherwise its not mechwarrior in my mind its BF2 (Worse WOW) with mechs. Resources are a critical component of the MW game and the decisions of their use should be up to the players.

If Team A cannot manage their resources, that's their problem, especially if Team B does it better.

Repawn as a mechanic is up to the devs to implement, better that we have CHOICE on its use, rather than hard and fast legislation by the devs when and where we can use it.

My suggestion is relative to ensuring that when people spawn its in a manner that properly introduces a player back to the field, with the same loss/win ratio as those who had successfully struggled to survive, and incur a form of cost that ensures they effort greater due to the difficulties involved.

Freespawn is bad I totally agree...everything should have a cost, and a chance at success. *Well except the magic headshot, which should knock the pilot out of the match - concession to those who want to have no respawn at all.

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 19 January 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[Mason Grimm]

Omigir, on 19 January 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

(snip)

Omigir, on 19 January 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

(snip)

Really?

Vexgrave Lars, on 19 January 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

(snip)

Vexgrave Lars, on 19 January 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

(snip)

Vexgrave Lars, on 19 January 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

(snip)

Seriously?

[Ravn]

LMAO Grimm. Anyway, I don't accept that rationalization. P2W is never going to fly in this community.

[Graphite]

Vexgrave Lars, on 19 January 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Repawn as a mechanic is up to the devs to implement, better that we have CHOICE on its use, rather than hard and fast legislation by the devs when and where we can use it.

Pretty sure the devs have already said that dead players will be able to switch between the first person views of team-mates. In other words, there will be no respawning (good!).

[Zakski]

Graphite, on 19 January 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Pretty sure the devs have already said that dead players will be able to switch between the first person views of team-mates. In other words, there will be no respawning (good!).

Already talked about that, !respawn != 1stPersonSpectatorView

seriously can people stop reading into things until they say it in plain english

[Omigir]

Mason Grimm, on 19 January 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Really? Seriously?

I was tired and not thinking right! You can challange me latter for light-mech-off. n__n

Graphite, on 19 January 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Pretty sure the devs have already said that dead players will be able to switch between the first person views of team-mates. In other words, there will be no respawning (good!).

They did not state anything to sugest one way or the other, sorry man. We already discussed that and its pretty clear that it could swing one way or the other. Asll it says is that while your 'dead' you observe your teamates, wheather that is the rest of the match or for just a short time while you wait to respawn, we dont know.

Listless Nomad, on 19 January 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

[...] If you do eject - you have to run around on the ground back to the drop point (wherever your team started on the map).[...]

The average human runs 3 miles in about 30 minutes.. even with vido game abuility to 'sprint' for that entire distance, its still about 20 minutes.. in a 1:1 world >__> you could be running multiple miles from where your mech went down back to the drop ship. You will never be able to run that far/fast.

Edited by Omigir, 20 January 2012 - 04:02 AM.

[Chuckie]

Graphite, on 19 January 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Pretty sure the devs have already said that dead players will be able to switch between the first person views of team-mates. In other words, there will be no respawning (good!).

In MW:LL you can do that while you wait to respawn... Just sayin'

AS far as we can tell respawn hasn't been discussed by the Devs directly.

Maybe Dev Q&A 4 will address it

Maybe they havent given it a ton of thought yet

Maybe what we say on the forums will give them ideas to try to implement into the game

Maybe they will do what the heck they want and nothing we say here will mean a thing..

Personally I think it falls between the 1st and *hopefully* 3rd comment.

Edited by Chuckie, 20 January 2012 - 04:31 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I think it is going to depend in part on how many "game modes" we are going to have available. I think a majority want no respawn in the "campaign game". I think the majority would accept some kind of respawn in any other mode. The other thing that will affect matters heavily is the cost of repairs. If you have just started playing and you get wiped out 5 times with heavy damage - how are the repair costs allocated.
I think that at the least there should be another two modes. 1) Limited respawn with repair costs, XP and LP. 2)Practice or training mode with multiple respawns, no costs, no XP/LP.
Is this a reasonable summary of the last 29 pages (leaving out all detail)?

[Omigir]

Chuckie, on 20 January 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

[...] In MW:LL you can do that while you wait to respawn... Just sayin' [...]

MW:LL also spat you out of your mech in BA. Just call me crazy, but I have a big problem if pilots are trying to operate a Battlemech in battle armor... and if not, a pilot scambaling to get into BA before enemy mech steps on you or the likewise.

No.. I think that concept should stay in MW:LL....

[MaddMaxx]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 20 January 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

I think it is going to depend in part on how many "game modes" we are going to have available. I think a majority want no respawn in the "campaign game". I think the majority would accept some kind of respawn in any other mode. The other thing that will affect matters heavily is the cost of repairs. If you have just started playing and you get wiped out 5 times with heavy damage - how are the repair costs allocated.
I think that at the least there should be another two modes.

1) Limited respawn with repair costs, XP and LP.

2)Practice or training mode with multiple respawns, no costs, no XP/LP.

Is this a reasonable summary of the last 29 pages (leaving out all detail)?

As to #1

Assuming the Repair costs will be Universal across any and all game modes, how many people will be able to lose more than one Mech per outting, or why would anyone play a mode, in this case, Limited Respawn if they cannot generate enough c-bills to cover the losses incurred? We are talking millions of C-Bills per unit lost to replace or repair back to Battle ready status.

As to #2

Perfect.