280 replies to this topic

[Ceefood]

The TW wins unless the hamer has a much better pilot - reasons (already mentioned to a degree)
1) TW more amour
2) TW more speed
3) TW more damage output at any range - since no weapons with minimum range the closer the TW gets the more damage it can inflict
4) Hammer on heat for alpha strike assuming optimum range for each mech individually -
Hammer up to 14 heat after 10 secs (32 max heat less 18 from single heat sinks) but some weapons either wont hit due to minimum range or less likely too
TW builds up 16 heat after 10 secs (50 max heat less 34 from 17 double Heatsinks)

the OP I think said remove its pods & arms & its useless - thats not surpirsing since the pods are in the side torsos & to remove them you remove the torsos and are left with
2x legs, a centre torso & the head - including an MG in the CT but no ammo (maybe the OP was a MW4 player & doesnt understand BT with its proper history no offence meant here just stating some facts about BT)

NOW if you do the same to the warhammer (which is only fair) you are left with same body parts but NO weapons & 1 ton of MG ammo

also the OP said about about the cockpit sticking out in front being an easy target well it may be in front but try picking out the cockpit from a distance NOW look at the head on a hammer - it sticks above the body - to me this is an easier target at distance than the TW let alone at close range - the TW has a similar problem with its missile pods sticking above the body (which is based on artwork rather than true location)

Edited by Ceefood, 10 January 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[Cyber Carns]

Larry Headrick, on 10 January 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I voted for warhammer cause i like it better. (old school table top).
Unfortunatly the truth is the Timber Wolf. Hello? its clan tech.

Even with out clan tech and you use is tech the Timberwolf would still win.

[Petroff Northrup]

Cyber Carns, on 10 January 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Even with out clan tech and you use is tech the Timberwolf would still win.

I disagree honestly

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rakshasa

It is nice but the Warhammer has solid in close power on it.

[Cyber Carns]

Brother Grim, on 10 January 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

2) I'm putting Natasha Kerensky in the cockpit.

.

You put her into anything and you had better say your prayers!

[God of War]

Stormwolf, on 10 January 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Big whoop, the Timber Wolf E, H and S would still beat those variants.

Let´s pimp the warhammer Pilot to even up the almost 1k of Battlevalue missing or ad a second Warhammer to compensate
the clan pilot and you how this song would end.

The E would be an intressting match up, the S simply uses the "I win Button" aka JJ + Pulse lasers.
Lets be honest: The H Madcat is on of the worst jokes ever.

[Petroff Northrup]

What is wrong with the Timber Wolf H?

[SgtMac]

Ive been playing since Cresent Hawks. Ive played table top till Iron Wind metals started making the minis, and making them uglier. I still play MW4. In regards to this comparison, the TImber Wolf wins, hands down period, While Pilots can be a factor, they are not enough.
Heres my reasoning. The Wolf, starts at max range, and only gets deadlier as it closes, no minimum range for its LRM's Clan lasers, are better damage rated with no minimum range, and as it close the machine guns and small lasers get into the fight. 4 long range systems, 2 medium range systems, and 4 close in systems. This is on top of better heat disapation systems, better engine speeds, and superior Armor. The Warhammer suffers a shorter range to its main guns, and has a minimum range, but as it closes it also gets deadlier in close the SRM rack, medium, small lasers, and machine guns begin to add in. 2 long range systems, 3 medium systems, 4 close in systems. All with reduced damage output to the clan versions. The machine has a solid engine and lower armor ratings but is out classed again by clan technoogy.
From table top, to Ghost Bears legacy, and MW2 Mercs, clanner machines constantly tear apart equal weight machines. I know the clan systems were designed to outperform even the Grey Death memory core upgrades. IS players will need a 3-1 advantage in equal weight classes for a stand up fight, or 4-1 tonnage for weapons equality (to counter speedier targets).
Whatever way they take this game, as a dedicated fan, im staying true to my Dragoons heritage. Lets play!

[Wraith 1]

Doctor Horrible, on 10 January 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

If you replaced 'very skilled' with 'extremely lucky' I'd agree. Hitting concentrated points at long range on a unpredictably moving target with slow PPC fire is beyond skill...though skill would improve the odds.

I'm sorry, I used the PPCs as my example because they have the longest range and highest damage of any weapon on the Warhammer, and when I said "Very skilled" I meant

Brother Grim, on 10 January 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

As most people have pointed out, the pilot is really what makes a 'Mech effective. That's why you can see an amazing pilot hop into a Locust and down an Atlas.

THAT kind of skilled.

[Datum]

Timby would win.
Faster, tougher, more powerful, longer range, and no minimum ranges coupled with a Clan Mechwarrior in the cockpit instead of some IS barbarian.

[Bushmaster]

Hammer 4L !

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Timberwolf is without CASE, a well placed dual ER PPC shot from the Warhammer on either of the wolfs LRM20 racks cause an ammo explosion on whats loaded or cause the whole carried payload to go off.... opps, your head is on fire there

Edited by Bushmaster, 10 January 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Ceefood]

Bushmaster, on 10 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Hammer 4L !

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Timberwolf is without CASE, a well placed dual ER PPC shot from the Warhammer on either of the wolfs LRM20 racks cause an ammo explosion on whats loaded or cause the whole carried payload to go off.... opps, your heads on fire there

ok -
according to page 115 of the BT compendium
"all clan weapon pods containing ammo-fed weapons automatically have CASE, at no cost in tonnage or critical slots"

also to correct you a couple other points
1) the hammer 4L is equipped with 2x IS ERPPC which do 10 damage each & 15 heat
the TW has 25 pts of armour per side torso - more than enough to stop the 2 placed shots unless you are targeting from the side & get a chance for a possible critical shot
2) the hammer 4L according to the Solaris 7 website plus a couple of others (Sarna site does not mention a date) states the 4L is available in 3067 which is 18 years after MWO is released

Edited by Ceefood, 10 January 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[Bushmaster]

Ceefood, on 10 January 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

ok -
according to page 115 of the BT compendium
"all clan weapon pods containing ammo-fed weapons automatically have CASE, at no cost in tonnage or critical slots"

also to correct you a couple other points
1) the hammer 4L is equipped with 2x IS ERPPC which do 10 damage each & 15 heat
the TW has 25 pts of armour per side torso - more than enough to stop the 2 placed shots unless you are targeting from the side & get a chance for a possible critical shot
2) the hammer 4L according to the Solaris 7 website plus a couple of others (Sarna site does not mention a date) states the 4L is available in 3067 which is 18 years after MWO is released

I couldnt remember if it did or didnt have case. Ya the 4L is abit out of the time frame, maybe then something along the lines of the 7M using the anti-missle system might it have a better chance and close distance, but the warhammer would have to have the jump of the wolf.

(On a side note, what the hell am I doing in a warhammer... gimmie my Mauler (well, its not that far off ) or my Thug)

Edited by Bushmaster, 10 January 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[Phelan Kerensky]

Petroff Northrup, on 10 January 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

I disagree honestly

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rakshasa

It is nice but the Warhammer has solid in close power on it.

Sorry mate, I have to disagree heartily. Please keep in mind that the Timber Wolf can use all it's weapons up close but the WarHammer cannot use it's PPCs which are the weapons with the most damage output on that mech. The whole time the Timber Wolf(with double heat sinks and not so many heat issues)would be firing its LRMs, lasers, mgs, basically everything while the Hammer is incapable of firing its two most powerful(and most heat problematic)weapons...

Still the Timber Wolf hands down. Doesn't matter how ya look at it.

[Ceefood]

Phelan Kerensky, on 10 January 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Please keep in mind that the Timber Wolf can use all it's weapons up close but the WarHammer cannot use it's PPCs which are the weapons with the most damage output on that mech.

actually if you go by BT TT rules you can fire a weapon that has a minimum range it was just +1 for every range increment closer than minimum - in game terms every 30 metres or part thereof closer than the minimum which for a ppc was 90 meters

[Phelan Kerensky]

However, this is still an extreme disadvantage for the WarHammer. Thanks for correcting my mistake btw...

[God of War]

Petroff Northrup, on 10 January 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

What is wrong with the Timber Wolf H?

The same points that make allmost all H-variants over expensive pieces of trash:
No targeting computer to compensate the hvy Lasers, not enough heat sinks to deliver it´s weapons, no
backup weaponary and the trade in of the clans greates advantage, range, for unreliable firepower.

Why use hvy Large Lasers when you can have the Clan ER-PPC?

Edited by God of War, 11 January 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[William White]

Story line wise the clan mech would win (heavier better tech), but really with tonnage so close it more likely to be down to the individual pilots.

[Petroff Northrup]

Phelan Kerensky, on 10 January 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Sorry mate, I have to disagree heartily. Please keep in mind that the Timber Wolf can use all it's weapons up close but the WarHammer cannot use it's PPCs which are the weapons with the most damage output on that mech. The whole time the Timber Wolf(with double heat sinks and not so many heat issues)would be firing its LRMs, lasers, mgs, basically everything while the Hammer is incapable of firing its two most powerful(and most heat problematic)weapons...

Still the Timber Wolf hands down. Doesn't matter how ya look at it.

I was responding to someone saying if the tech was evened out the Timber Wolf would still win, if it was then the LRMs come within minimum range fast and I believe the Rakshasa (IS tech Timber Wolf) develops it's own heat problems.

[Marxman]

As much as i love the good old Warhammer it would be destroyed by the Timberwolf in a matter of moments.
A more realistic comparism would be Timberwolf vs Warhammer IIC. Same technology base, even less difference in tonnage and comparable ranges.
In this case the Warhammer IIC 1 would winn once its close enough for the plentora on medium pulselasers it carries. The Timberwolf would win if the fight is a long range only fight.
A Warhammer IIC 2 would be quite equal to the Timberwolf, , Variant 3 would have to get quite close to make use of its arsenal and would most likely get shot to pieces at range.
However, a Warhammer IIC 4 with its ATMS backed up by ERPPCs and the sinks to use them all would probably shred the Timberwolf to bits.
But a classic IS Warhammer WHM-6R vs a Timberwolf....Bye bye Whammy unless you get get of some very very lucky shots.

[Strayed]

Like what Marxman said, normal or IIC model?