280 replies to this topic

[Wyzak]

Mad Cat has clan tech so I think it would have a serious advantage. Also, a medium pulse laser is way better then two small lasers. For both range and damage output reasons.

[Der Kommissar]

MechRaccoon, on 20 April 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

This is kind of a trick question. The Mad Cat may have more long range weapons but the Warhammer has more close range firepower. At close range, those LRM20s are kinda useless. The Warhammer also has 2 medium lasers and 2 small lasers as opposed to the Mad Cat's 1 medium pulse laser and 2 medium lasers. I think 2 small lasers = more firepower then Medium pulse. i think. not to mention, the Warhammer has SRM6, mad cat doesn't. The only problem with the Warhammer rushing up and kicking the Mad Cat's tush in CQC is that the Warhammer is slower than the Mad Cat, so it would take a healthy dose of luck to be able to get up close to a Mad Cat without taking a lot of damage.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. Now that i think about it, the Warhammer is slightly more geared towards urban combat while the Mad Cat is definitely more geared towards pitch battles on steppes, so the victor of this match depends on the arena in which they duel in.

Clan LRM racks have no minimum range. They can be (and are) used in close combat. Further, unlike the Warhammer, the Timber Wolf has the heat sink capacity to rotate in some of its long range bracket weapons into its short range combat. The Warhammer cannot do so - even if it had the heat sinks, the minimum range on PPCs makes them bad at knife fights. Your damage calculations are also wrong: Clan medium lasers do more damage than IS ones (7 damage for ER mediums and pulses, compared to 5 and 7 respectively for IS equivalents). What this means is that even without its long range weapons, the Timber Wolf is punching respectably up close. And let's not even get into armor thickness and mobility, which play a role in survivability.

(Incidentally, you forgot the machine guns both mechs have and the SRM-6 the Warhammer has. Factoring that in, the Warhammer indeed does have an edge in knife-fighting weapon output, but not enough to make up for the Timber Wolf's superior mobility, heat sinking, and use of its long range weapons up close.)

Edited by Der Kommissar, 22 April 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[veretax]

I think the answer is neither. The winner is the fans who can try it from all angles, from a Table Top perspective though, a Mint Timber Wolf (Mad Cat Prime or A) Against any mint 3050s Era Warhammer, is highly likely to win. Only the 'apocryphal' WHM-7K that I've seen do I think would even have a chance, and only if it can close to within it's full weapon capability.


But the winner is the fans, because if you have both mechs in the game you can try it from either side and just enjoy the mayhem!

[neodym]

IF WE ARE COMPARING STOCK VARIANTS



Long range WITH cover : winner = Warhammer

Reason : PPC travells faster than rockets,Warhammer can easily retreat to cover and hide from LRM.It is true that Madcat have two ER large lasers but these dont have firepower like twin PPC


Long range WITHOUT cover : winner = Madcat

Reason: more armor,more firepower,more speed.... now when these two LRM 20s get into situation when they can hit,together with two large ER lasers,22% higher speed and two tones more amor makes madcat winner easily



medium/close range.... Madcats will own Warhammer BUT,its theoreticaly high chance that if both PPC hit with first contact one of LRM racks or very exposed cockpit,things can get on Warhammer side fast,also in case the madcat runs out of LRMs,it would be balanced if not slightly more in favor of Warhammer

[Voridan Atreides]

TimberWolf...nuff said.

[Der Kommissar]

Quote

Warhammer can easily retreat to cover and hide from LRM.

Not with a top speed of 64 km/h, it can't. Not in tabletop, period. Even if you hug a rock and only poke out to shoot your PPCs, the Timber Wolf can always respond with its instant-arrival large lasers and may, depending on LRM mechanics, be able to arc them over the covering terrain (this was possible in Mechwarrior 2). The Timber Wolf's high top speed lets it close the gap quickly.

Quote

It is true that Madcat have two ER large lasers but these dont have firepower like twin PPC

Wrong. The Clan ER Large Laser has firepower equal to the IS PPC, and superior range.

The LRMs are just a nice bonus, not the end-all be-all for making the Timber Wolf win. The Timber Wolf has superior ability to handle its heat, superior mobility, and superior armor. It is not vulnerable to total destruction from an ammunition explosion due to CASE, either. This is quite simply not a fair comparison, even if the IS mech has access to lostech.

Edited by Der Kommissar, 08 May 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

The comparison is similar to Vincent vs McKenna isn't it.
The TimberWolf when not piloted by a morron will kill a Warhammer in no time.
Considering Invasion -> Warhammer is under armored and outgunned.and slower
Considering modern Versions of Warhammer - the outgunned and out armored statement remain
Even with Solaris IV rules i don't see any good for the Warhammer

So maybe only maybe the OP meant the Warhammer IIC....well that fight only depends on the pilot...

[Stormwolf]

Only one more year, the people who voted Warhammer will be in for a really nasty surprise.

[Stormeris]

When titans collide, the guy with clan tech wins cause its op, *** **** it i hate those clanners, ill be leggin every one of them i fight xD

[neodym]

Der Kommissar, on 08 May 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Not with a top speed of 64 km/h, it can't. Not in tabletop, period. Even if you hug a rock and only poke out to shoot your PPCs, the Timber Wolf can always respond with its instant-arrival large lasers and may, depending on LRM mechanics, be able to arc them over the covering terrain (this was possible in Mechwarrior 2). The Timber Wolf's high top speed lets it close the gap quickly.



Wrong. The Clan ER Large Laser has firepower equal to the IS PPC, and superior range.

The LRMs are just a nice bonus, not the end-all be-all for making the Timber Wolf win. The Timber Wolf has superior ability to handle its heat, superior mobility, and superior armor. It is not vulnerable to total destruction from an ammunition explosion due to CASE, either. This is quite simply not a fair comparison, even if the IS mech has access to lostech.

lol I come from Mechwarrior 4,where you can easily hide from rocket even with Annhilator with top speed of 37 and where Clan ER laser have less dmg than PPC

[Stormwolf]

neodym, on 09 May 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

lol I come from Mechwarrior 4,where you can easily hide from rocket even with Annhilator with top speed of 37 and where Clan ER laser have less dmg than PPC

Clan tech is heavily nerfed in MW4, although that might be a good thing when you consider all the min maxed designs that run around in multiplayer.

[Mikro]

Here Kitty Kitty

[Goldhawk]

At close range, the Warhammer would be a tough match for a Timberwolf, but at range the T-Wolf rips apart the Warhammer.

[Atlai]

It totally maters whose driving.

[Rejarial Galatan]

between the timberwolf and warhammer? timberwolf reigns supreme. a superior multi-range mech.

[Der Kommissar]

neodym, on 09 May 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

lol I come from Mechwarrior 4,where you can easily hide from rocket even with Annhilator with top speed of 37 and where Clan ER laser have less dmg than PPC

Mechwarrior 4 is an absolutely awful source of Battletech canon. There's your problem.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Mikro, on 09 May 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Here Kitty Kitty

what kitty are you calling in? I see a TIMBER WOLF and a WARHAMMER on the field, no cats, just a brutal OMNIMECH and its meal. Timberwolf/Warhammer respectively.

[Mike Silva]

I'm a huge Warhammer fan..... but I don't understand how this is even a question.

[Rejarial Galatan]

well, silva, if i read post 1 the OP is wondering which mech would win in a 1v1 fight. answer: TimberWolf. The warhammer, while it HAS its merits, just is not fast enough, armed well enough or armored enough to deal with a full on assault from a TimberWolf. Even those pilots in 100ton ASSAULT mechs think twice before risking a firefight with a TimberWolf.

[Mike Silva]

At least an Atlas can take a punch or three from a Timber Wolf with enough long range firepower to keep up and possibly win. But since it's burdened with an IS XL engine its probably no more survivable; a Timber Wolf can keep shooting back when it's half smashed.

A Warhammer is a speed bump for a Timber Wolf.... outside of 270 meters the best a Warhammer can do is 20 DP/10S, while a Timber Wolf is good for as much as 60 DP/10S. Up close it's even worse since Clan LRMs have no minimum range.

Talking about this makes me realize..... I desperately hope the devs know what they're doing here, because the balance of tech is so out of whack that it could break the game if they don't set it up properly.