57 replies to this topic

[Lycan]

Sarajevo, on 14 January 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Overheating shouldn't hurt the pilot. The pilot is insulated in an escape pod right?

If heat didn't hurt the pilot, then why do all Mechwarriors wear cooling vests?

[Domoneky]

I'd have to agree about not having the player die but the Mech should definently be put to risk. the idea of an auto eject is a good idea but it should be armed when the override is on to act as a final fail-safe. Ammo cook-offs are neccessary.

[Liam]

Quote

Should Mechs, Pilots, or both take damage from "critical overheating" ?


Mechs - critical overheating causes gradual damage to all internal structures and ammo explosions.
Mechs - critical overheating causes sudden catastrophic death.
Pilots - Die after critical overheating.
Pilots - Pass-out after critical overheating, eventually dying.

This poll is strange.

from the logical point of view (not BT TT):
- Ammunition only can explode after direct hit or reactor explosion.
- Reactor produces its own heat (own critical level) > over-stress, overheating (by producing to much energy than allowed) can lead to an explosion. Or by simply by hit, if there something explosive at all, maybe superconducting magnets or capacitors!?
- Weapons produce own heat (own critical level) > weapon damage (PPC, Laser, partially but less feasible ACs and LRMs)
- Heat sinks cools stuff on the place ... I guess 10 HS will be needed for reactor and actuators (here comes the limit for number of allowed energy weapons in alpha strike)
- additional HS on weapons would prevent them from damage at rapid fire
- additional heat sinks would allow more energy generation (more energy weapons shooting in alpha strike)
- BT heat mechanic is too simplified, but is good enough for TT.

Edited by Liam, 14 January 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[Halfinax]

Prosperity Park, on 14 January 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Well, we have no idea how the game will deal with Character Death or Mech losses... We don't know if there will be an ejection system at all, or even if pilots can die. So, for now, I'm just ging to say "pilot death" simply means "end of the mission for you" without the Mech actually blowing up.

Actually we do:

Quote

Will the MechWarrior® (that is, the player's avatar within the 'Mech) be subject to any particular effects during missions (e.g. injury resulting from hits to the BattleMech's head, falling, ammo explosions (injury as the result of an electric shock from feedback through the neurohelmet), and/or prolonged extreme overheating of the 'Mech)?

[DAVID] The MechWarrior® won’t actually take any sort of damage or be at risk of dying separately from the ‘Mech itself. However, we hope to have some visual effects like the ones that you’ve mentioned.

[Kaemon]

I thought they already said pilot/avatars would not take damage, the effects would most likely be to help us understand why our mech is not responding correctly (cause it's basically falling apart).

Did I miss something, or was it another MWO dream?

(at least I wasn't a viking in that one).

[Felicitatem Parco]

You, Sirs, are right...


*Grabs eraser*

[Rathverge]

There's some poll issues, if you can always try to cover the three bases: 1-Yes, 2-No, 3 Maybe/other or in a choice: 1-A, 2-B, 3, A+B or neither.

[Mchawkeye]

I say let 'em cook.

I really want to see heat beinging a much more significant part of the game; it's more tactical, it's more dangerous and thus MORE FUN.

We have established our avatars are functionally immortal, which is fine by me.

The mechs on the other hand...

Me say mech go boom.


(Just thought. Maybe the shut down overide should be an upgrade option? Might make it interesting, somehow.)

[guardiandashi]

Liam, on 14 January 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

This poll is strange.

from the logical point of view (not BT TT):
- Ammunition only can explode after direct hit or reactor explosion.
- Reactor produces its own heat (own critical level) > over-stress, overheating (by producing to much energy than allowed) can lead to an explosion. Or by simply by hit, if there something explosive at all, maybe superconducting magnets or capacitors!?
- Weapons produce own heat (own critical level) > weapon damage (PPC, Laser, partially but less feasible ACs and LRMs)
- Heat sinks cools stuff on the place ... I guess 10 HS will be needed for reactor and actuators (here comes the limit for number of allowed energy weapons in alpha strike)
- additional HS on weapons would prevent them from damage at rapid fire
- additional heat sinks would allow more energy generation (more energy weapons shooting in alpha strike)
- BT heat mechanic is too simplified, but is good enough for TT.

points. ammunition contains volitile materials these materials CAN ignite if thresholds are met
in the battletech heat scale (basic, 0 to 30 heat gauge)
level 0 to 4 has no detrimental effect
level 5 gives you a -1 penalty to walking movement speed this persists to higher levels
level 8 gives a 1 point penalty to accuracy
level 10 increases the movement penalty to 2 (~20km/hr) off the walking speed
level 13 increases the to hit penalty to 2 points
level 14 triggers the 1st reactor shutdown attempt, avoid on 4+ on 2d6
level 15 the movement penalty is now -3 (~30kph)
level 17 the argeting penalty increases to 3
level 18 is another shutdown avoid 6+ now
level 19 is a possible ammo cookoff avoid on 4+

etc
what this means is as the mechs temperature (internally) reaches certain thresholds "bad things" start happening

ways of generating heat
walking +1 heat
running +2 heat
jumping 1 heat per jump movement expended minimum of 3
weapons fire as per weapon
lasers small 1 medium 3 large 8
ppc 10
lrm 5, 2 lrm 10, 3 lrm 15, 5 lrm 20 6
etc

Edited by guardiandashi, 15 January 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Liam]

Before some ammunition rounds start to "ignite" (if at all, see TNT), some armature ammunition pod etc. should be already melted down (reactor explosion). It doesn't make any sense why a mech should be design where heat transfer is the same for all parts.
Its about heat conductivity, heat resistance etc. how stuff is engineered.

Only because heat level goes critical it doesn't mean the mech starts to melt down, not at all. It means the reactor generates to much energy compared to standard operation (as designed), this means more heat losses (more that optimal case), and from there comes critical heat level.

Guardiandashi I know this table, and appreciate BT rules, but however these rules are very simplified. The creators wanted a heat model for TT, which is really okay. But the point is the model is very simplified and is only partially correct from thermodynamic point of view. Which is really okay.
In case of MW game a model which represents logical aspects and BT lore (and not TT) is needed.

Edited by Liam, 15 January 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

I've never seen a BT game simulate the heat buildup in a cockpit, so I thought it would be interesting as to what others thought about it as well?

Personally, I'd love to have heat buildup cause pilots' vision to blur slightly at increased temperatures, possibly distort sound very slightly to simulate sensory input delay.

[autogyro]

Without proper heat buildup effects the flamers become pretty much useless. Also, jump jets should add heat. I vote for full heat effects which would affect movement and targeting.

[metro]

>>>lookin around<<<

I coulda swore we all had a chat on this subject, oh 30-45 days ago,

If I find it, I shall return.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Was it this one?

[metro]

exactly....thank you.

Merge process Activated......Thanks Prosperity!

>salute<

[metro]

Merge process - completed.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Commencing Warm Liquid Goo Stage...

Anyways, since our Mechs can't be permenantly destroyed and We can't die, then I think heat should cause "field decomissioning" of your Mech or Pilot if you get too hot. You can't physically die, but perhaps you CAN pass-out to the point of requiring hospitalization...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 23 February 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Lycan, on 14 January 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

If heat didn't hurt the pilot, then why do all Mechwarriors wear cooling vests?

The Coolant Vest is the same idea as a G Suit to a Jet pilot. It helps the Pilot fight on when under normal conditions, they could not. Even a Jet pilot with a G suit has limits. Same for a MechWarrior and their Coolant vest. Abuse the Heat, take the consequences.

[metro]

if heat shut ya down in the MW series, I am sure these DEV's have that covered.

I would say Details will come soon enough.

[MaddMaxx]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 13 January 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I think a lot of people who are used to MW3 &4 would have a nasty shock if heat was correctly implimented when using stock mechs of the era.Most mechs can't even run and fire all of their weapons at once

There was a definite trend in the previous games. MW2 had Heat, it was PITA and Flamers were a Terror, but it rewarded good Piloting and weapons usage.

MW3, not so much Heat and Flamers were a noise you heard only from the Bots in game. Obviously Heat was not a very liked mechanic by the non-hardcore.

MW4, Heat was a Joke, Flamers a Joke, Coolant Flush introduced. Obviously Heat was not a very liked mechanic by the non-hardcore yet again.

Now we are Re-Booting. How does the Dev make Heat matter under the F2P game plan? I am personally quite nervous about it...still. Without it, and in Spades, MWO will just be like the previous 2 versions (with way better graphics and scale etc etc.) but Heat is the one Balancing factor.

It is akin to some known heavy Contact sports (Pro-Football). The Team that best deals with the constant Pain, has the best shot at winning in the end.

Dead pilots, No. All the other bad things. Absolutely (in spades).

P.S. Did the Poll go away?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 23 February 2012 - 09:43 AM.