103 replies to this topic

[Kreltius]

The mech loadouts for weapons are not the same as the rules for the actual battletech universe. when setting up weapons to a location like a arm or torso it takes up the entire load up for the weapons in that one location whether you still have open slots or not.

Also the the fact that you have only certain weapons you can put in certain locations is limiting your configurations. Also something is not maching to battletech rules. I can deal with the fact that i can only put weapons in certain locations.

But to be limited the amout of weapons you can setup to each location due to that type is completely pointless. as long as you have the slots available in that location there should be no restrictions to how many weapons you have setup to that arm or location on the mech.

Edited by Revak Vendal, 05 August 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Toothman]

You mean just like they have been saying for the last year? Yes you are correct.

[tyrone dunkirk]

You know what mate, you're right. Let's go back to the good old days of MW4's everything-is-omni hardpoints.

[Henchman 24]

Sigh,

Do yourself a favor.

Search hardpoints on the forums, and do some reading, there are reasons why this system is in place.

I'll say it again as before, strict adherence to TT/dice rules makes for bad skill based games....get over it. It also allows for far too many abusive designs that don't take reality into account.

Edited by Henchman 24, 05 August 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Davoke]

Besides, what logic says that I don't have the right to mount a pair of Gauss rifles in my K2

[Kreltius]

thontor, on 05 August 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Without hard points we might as well just have one mech of each tonnage

You do have a point hard points are fine. And i stated that. But, the amount of weapons you can have in a location is equal to the amount of open slots you have. there are no or there should be no restrictions to that. that is the way it has always been. Or then on that explain to me how certain mechs have more then one weapon on their arms for example.

[Lawstar]

there have been a lot of explanations for this..the most basic is there are SEVERAL configurations for each mech..if you can mix and match as much as you want then why bother with configurations??? secondly...the best explanation i have heard is (based in reality) that in a certain config of mech the "basic factory model" before adding weapons has run power couplings to run "energy" weapons to certain areas (i.e. 3 couplings = 3 hard points)...or they have run ammo feeders for "ballistic weapons"...or they have run exhaust ports for "missile weapons" ...any of these things would take a LOT of retooling otherwise....thin about trying to put a 12 cylinder rolls royce engine on a fiat....MAJOR STRUCTURAL REVISIONS...so the system MWO proposes ONLY makes sense with the use of different mech models...otherwise why bother with different models??????

[Alex Wolfe]

tyrone dunkirk, on 05 August 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

You know what mate, you're right. Let's go back to the good old days of MW4's everything-is-omni hardpoints.

People's hatred of MW4 seems to be clouding their judgment and memory? MW3 and below were "everything-is-omni".

MW4 introduced type- and size-based hardpoints and was taking a lot of flak for that from the "old school" crowd because it was limiting configs. Personally I really liked it, it gave mechs a certain feel.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 05 August 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[Orzorn]

The very fact that the Battletech universe makes it a point to have a distinction between normal mechs and omnimechs means a hardpoint system is basically already in the lore.

[Milkman Luke]

Revak Vendal, on 05 August 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

The mech loadouts for weapons are not the same as the rules for the actual battletech universe. when setting up weapons to a location like a arm or torso it takes up the entire load up for the weapons in that one location whether you still have open slots or not.

Also the the fact that you have only certain weapons you can put in certain locations is limiting your configurations. Also something is not maching to battletech rules. I can deal with the fact that i can only put weapons in certain locations.

But to be limited the amout of weapons you can setup to each location due to that type is completely pointless. as long as you have the slots available in that location there should be no restrictions to how many weapons you have setup to that arm or location on the mech.

Like everyone else said, it would be dumb to make every x-ton mech an identical box in which to pour whatever you wanted, because then there would be zero difference beyond cosmetic between chassis.

That said, you've obviously never gone full sperg and played Battletech with the repair/retrofit and salvage rules.

It's a royal pain in the *** to swap weapons for things of highly differing weights and classes in "the rules for the actual battletech", and an attempt can end up destroying your gear whilst accomplishing nothing. If anything, this game is more forgiving than the real rules.

Edited by Milkman Luke, 05 August 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[Kreltius]

Alex Wolfe, on 05 August 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

People's hatred of MW4 seems to be clouding their judgment and memory?

MW3 and below were everything-is-omni. MW4 introduced type- and size-based hardpoints and was taking a lot of flak for that from the "old school" crowd.

everyone brings up mech warrior 4 as a example. mech warrior 4 was the worse game to the legacy of battle tech and mech warrior. to base the rules truley lets go back to mech warrior 2 that was the true game for mechwarrior. mechwarrior 4 change up all the rules and really put a bad end to the mechwarrior name.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Revak Vendal, on 05 August 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

The mech loadouts for weapons are not the same as the rules for the actual battletech universe. when setting up weapons to a location like a arm or torso it takes up the entire load up for the weapons in that one location whether you still have open slots or not.

Also the the fact that you have only certain weapons you can put in certain locations is limiting your configurations. Also something is not maching to battletech rules. I can deal with the fact that i can only put weapons in certain locations.

But to be limited the amout of weapons you can setup to each location due to that type is completely pointless. as long as you have the slots available in that location there should be no restrictions to how many weapons you have setup to that arm or location on the mech.

its all about balanceing the game and makeing chassis and varaints usefull, instead of making it like say oh i dont know MW4 where everyone used Executioner and Black Knight with 4 ERPPC and jump jets

tyrone dunkirk, on 05 August 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

You know what mate, you're right. Let's go back to the good old days of MW4's everything-is-omni hardpoints.

also your thinking of MW2/3 not mw4, mw4 was horrible.

[verybad]

Alex Wolfe, on 05 August 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

People's hatred of MW4 seems to be clouding their judgment and memory? MW3 and below were "everything-is-omni".

MW4 introduced type- and size-based hardpoints and was taking a lot of flak for that from the "old school" crowd because it was limiting configs. Personally I really liked it, it gave mechs a certain feel.

Quoted for truth. MW4 introduced hardpoints to the game, and suddlenly an Awesome was a different mech in game from a Zeus or a Victor.

Hardpoints make the mech chassis matter, and makes for a far more engaging game. Those and tactical electronics were the two cool things that MW4 introduced.

Edited by verybad, 05 August 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Kreltius]

verybad, on 05 August 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Quoted for truth. MW4 introduced hardpoints to the game, and suddlenly an Awesome was a different mech in game from a Zeus or a Victor.

Hardpoints make the mech chassis matter, and makes for a far more engaging game. Those and tactical electronics were the two cool things that MW4 introduced.

you have a good point hard points do help. Im just use to playing the game as it was meant to be played and can drop the engine and give 4 ppc's then i feel that i should have the same priviledge here. I understand where the hard points come into play and how they help to balance out the game. Before mechwarrior 4 came out and changed all this I agree to the fact the zeus is one of my favorite mechs and it should be able to fit into this game with the same rules before mechwarrior 4.

[Gu4rdi4n]

I'm not going to discuss

Just stating my opinion. I like it as it is. I think it has promise and they might tweak things, but I enjoy the way its handling and ill adjust to what the makers will tweak it with.

Hope they keep to their plans and views....I'm enjoying each day I'm allowed to log on. MWO is a new game in the Battletech universe and I'm surely pleased I'm around to enjoy it.

HF all!!!

[Kreltius]

Maybe im being misunderstood. What my point is for example as long as i have enough tonnage available and open slots i can configure on the same rules. for example... I can take an atlas drop down the engine or some of the heat sinks off and put 4 lrm 20's on a atlas. put 2 in left torso and 2 in right torso as long as i have the tonnage and space to do it. I mean that only seams legal i should be able to do that. or a madcat for example: drop the engine to a lower speed and lower tonnage and put 4 ppcs and some extra heat sincs.

[Spazz Matticus]

Revak Vendal, on 05 August 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

you have a good point hard points do help. Im just use to playing the game as it was meant to be played and can drop the engine and give 4 ppc's then i feel that i should have the same priviledge here. I understand where the hard points come into play and how they help to balance out the game. Before mechwarrior 4 came out and changed all this I agree to the fact the zeus is one of my favorite mechs and it should be able to fit into this game with the same rules before mechwarrior 4.

I think what he is trying to express than more freedom of customization should be allowed. Not saying that a person should have as much freedom to place a LRM 20 on the right arm of a Hunchback. just more options

[verybad]

Revak Vendal, on 05 August 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

you have a good point hard points do help. Im just use to playing the game as it was meant to be played and can drop the engine and give 4 ppc's then i feel that i should have the same priviledge here. I understand where the hard points come into play and how they help to balance out the game. Before mechwarrior 4 came out and changed all this I agree to the fact the zeus is one of my favorite mechs and it should be able to fit into this game with the same rules before mechwarrior 4.

Problem with being able to put any weapon into any mech under the battletech CONSTRUCTION rules is that players figure out the most effective mechs and the most effective loadouts. Those mechs get used the most and you end up with less diversity in play. This is not an assumption on my part, it's proven through observation of both MW3 and MW4 online playstyles.

Whatever flaws MW4 may have had, it resulted in a far more diverse use of mechs (even before MekTek's mechpacks), and those mechs custom loadouts were much closer to the mech's general feal. A Ballistic boat like the Annhilator was always a ballistic boat. An missile boat was alway's a missile boat, and so on.

For me, hardpoints make the game much closer to "how it should be". While some players may stick to "unspoken rules" and keep mechs true to their feeling without hardpoints, the vast majority do not, they go with what's most effective. This is why hardpoints need to be in the game.

Limiting customization actually results in much more diverse playstyles and a more interesting multiplayer experience.

Edited by verybad, 05 August 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[Kreltius]

I agree with the restrictions for hard points it does help to balance out the options for inner sphere mechs with omni mechs or clan mechs you have more options. And this is before 3050 rule sets im sure there are some restrictions. I just still feel that should be more options for placing weapons how i want. like the zeus lrm 20 on right arm and ppc on left. Just what im accustomed too and having to make an adjustment where im limited just doesnt feel the same anymore like what battletech was all about.

Its a good game, I like it and I feel that it has a lot of potential. Im just hoping that there will be more options available later.

[Derek Icelord]

What verybad said.

The "anything anywhere there's space" system of MW2 and 3 were the construction rules for BattleTech. Customizing non-OmniMechs is much different and more restrictive. I didn't like MW4's bastardized hybrid of hardpoints/critical slots, but I think MechWarrior: Online's system is a perfect (or near enough) blend.