52 replies to this topic

[Snowcaller]

If it's just 20pts and i misinterprited the rules, then yeah a 20 point ammo explosion is fair.
It would make the weapon a liability for mediums and lighter heavy's, but assaults should be fine...just don't mount anything you'll miss in the same loc'.

lol...we thought it was a 300 point explosion...still, our amended rules were pretty good

[Gremlich Johns]

What if the capacitors are instead hit after they have discharged their energy or are in the process of re-charging?

A random outcome (empty, partial, or full) could determine weapon status - if full - kaboom (and destroyed requiring full replacement), if partial, it could just fizzle and be out of commission until repaired (if possible as determined by d20), and if empty, the device is out of commission (until repaired (if possible as determined by d20).

[Razor Kotovsky]

Stop looking at tabletop for all the answers, please.

Capacitors only store electricity to power the magnets. They can't explode unless they use some kind of unstable chemicals for the task. However it is entirely possible for them to produce a catastrofic discharge in event of short-circuiting (which can happen rather easily - you just need a solid projectile to hit them).

The main difference between cannons and gauss are the capacitors, and they are somewhat fragile indeed. There absolutely must be some kind of critical breakdown that affects the entire mech to balance traditional gauss advantages over cannons.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 21 January 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[VYCanis]

fun fact

MWLL features to some extent GR explosions... sorta

While criticals aren't completely modeled out, nor are internals. If a location that is mounting a light, medium, or heavy gauss rifle is destroyed, it deals secondary damage to adjacent locations, making the mech significantly easier to take out of commission.

Most people don't notice it between the explosions and effects most of the time, but its there.

aside from being rendered mostly toothless, its why hollanders in MWLL don't survive much longer than their gauss rifles

[Snowcaller]

Razor Kotovsky, on 21 January 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Stop looking at tabletop for all the answers, please.

Capacitors only store electricity to power the magnets. They can't explode unless they use some kind of unstable chemicals for the task. However it is entirely possible for them to produce a catastrofic discharge in event of short-circuiting (which can happen rather easily - you just need a solid projectile to hit them).

The main difference between cannons and gauss are the capacitors, and they are somewhat fragile indeed. There absolutely must be some kind of critical breakdown that affects the entire mech to balance traditional gauss advantages over cannons.

You thinking something along the lines of ionisation?
Interesting, if so.

I agree that there should be some consequence to them being hit.
I've had capacitors blow on a console i had, it just shut down and blew smoke

[Kenyon Burguess]

the explosion should be so impressive that small children will leave their homes in the middle of a battle just to watch.

[VYCanis]

[Snowcaller]

Geist Null, on 21 January 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

the explosion should be so impressive that small children will leave their homes in the middle of a battle just to watch.

With a special mod on Nov 5th and Jul 4th and whatever for EXTRA pretty boominess...with sparkles.

[Morashtak]

Razor Kotovsky, on 21 January 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Stop looking at tabletop for all the answers, please.

Capacitors only store electricity to power the magnets. They can't explode unless they use some kind of unstable chemicals for the task. However it is entirely possible for them to produce a catastrofic discharge in event of short-circuiting (which can happen rather easily - you just need a solid projectile to hit them).

The main difference between cannons and gauss are the capacitors, and they are somewhat fragile indeed. There absolutely must be some kind of critical breakdown that affects the entire mech to balance traditional gauss advantages over cannons.

Here's something interesting -

The third result is what I'm used to with high-power caps.

[Stone Profit]

Razor Kotovsky, on 21 January 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Stop looking at tabletop for all the answers, please.

Capacitors only store electricity to power the magnets. They can't explode unless they use some kind of unstable chemicals for the task. However it is entirely possible for them to produce a catastrofic discharge in event of short-circuiting (which can happen rather easily - you just need a solid projectile to hit them).

The main difference between cannons and gauss are the capacitors, and they are somewhat fragile indeed. There absolutely must be some kind of critical breakdown that affects the entire mech to balance traditional gauss advantages over cannons.

Dude, could you read the info I provided beforereplying? It specifically says the energy discarge acts like an ammo explosion, causing damage to the mech.

Come on.

[Damocles]

Yes to cap explosion and self-damage; but on an ammo crit, not a weapon destruction.

[Hayden]

Unequivocal yes.

[ice trey]

Yes.

Capacitor explosions are the main drawback to the Gauss Rifle.

The ammo-per-ton is not all that bad. Sure, it's 8 rounds per ton, but the AC10 has 10 rounds per ton, and the next gun up, the 20, is 5 shots per ton. 8 shots per ton is no slouch

It produces almost no heat, it can reach out and hit targets at greater ranges than LRMs, a lucky headshot is an instant-kill against any 'mech in existence, and it's minimum range is a negligible handicap at 60 meters.

The gauss rifle is a game decider for any inner sphere force - and in no small part why I have a loathing of Lyran armies, which pile them on their units like they were going out of style, and at minimal point value handicap or C-bill costs. Some Megamek servers I've run into have also recognized this, and have put limits on the number of Gauss Rifles you can field per 'mech in a given force.

Long story short, we need the capacitor explosions in there as a balancing factor. In the grand scheme of things, and especially if they get rid of coolant flushing like I hope, the weight of the Gauss rifle will be a negligible handicap among a long list of benefits.

[ice trey]

Razor Kotovsky, on 21 January 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Stop looking at tabletop for all the answers, please.

I don't see the problem.

The battletech universe fluffs gauss rifles as being something that explodes when damaged.

Battletech, and by extension - MechWarrior, are not hard science fiction. They couldn't be without getting rid of 'mechs. This game can't be a realistic sim without getting rid of them, which defeats the purpose of the universe in the first place. Mechwarrior is instead a simulator that works in the context of the Battletech universe - nothing more.

I think there's a saying about "Bringing real world physics" into Battletech/Mechwarrior arguments as having an adverse effect on Kittens/Catgirls

[Zedera]

Nothing wrong with Gauss Rifle explosions as a reasonable way to balance the weapon out. I don't necessarily agree with "Gauss Rifle explodes because technology says so", seeing how much tech doesn't factor into parts of the game and how there are still limits as to how much detail a game can take into account. If the average Joe pilot trying to enter the battletech universe for the first time was suddenly assaulted by a plethora of "Be careful with Gauss Rifle, it can explode if hit because technology says so!" alongside reasons to choose Endo Steel and why Ferro Fibrous works and what's so special about Omni slots and Beagle Active Probes versus ECM and why AMS is needed... the casual gamer would be turned away. As much as this game is for the Battletech enthusiasts, any good MMO's goal is to reach out beyond its circle of hardcore fans in order to attract new players.

I would know. Tried coaching my friend on the basics of Inner Sphere versus Clan technology and the differences between the Five Houses. His head is still spinning. Not saying we should dumb the game down, but having a highly jargon-filled reasoning for why Gauss Rifles will explode if hit is not what the game needs. Just say it's volatile, can explode, might explode as a result of balancing to make the Gauss Rifle weaker. End of story.

[Deathjester]

My vote's for exploding capacitors, however in the mechwarrior games there was also the option to jettison ammunition from a weapon (not sure if this was an option in tabletop), what are peoples thoughts on being able to jettison capacitors then?

[Solis Obscuri]

Deathjester, on 24 January 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

My vote's for exploding capacitors, however in the mechwarrior games there was also the option to jettison ammunition from a weapon (not sure if this was an option in tabletop), what are peoples thoughts on being able to jettison capacitors then?

I think powering the weapon down should be an option.

[Valdor Constantine]

imo when a gauss rifle capicitor is destroyed it should send a massive amount of electricle feed back through the cockpit/pilot disorienting them for a short period for example *boom* gauss rifle destroyed your screen HUD fizzez and shorts in and out, forward is backward left and right are revered exc. for like a period of 6 secs giving the feeling that you are severly disorented you still have control but everthing is backwards for that period of time..

[trycksh0t]

Shalmyan Moonsong, on 20 January 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

If you know anything about the Classic Tabletop Battletech, this is pretty much a simple rule. If the Gauss rilfe takes a crit... it goes BOOM, why is that we might ask....

well frist it the advantages....

One shot generates... one point of heat, and does fifteen damage, and has the same range as a LRM, and if it's ammo does take a critical hit, the ammo does not explode.

Now if the weapon did not have the disadvantage that it does have, which is that it weighes 15 tons, good size for a weapon and take up 7 crit slots, the only disadvantage is the weapons blows up if one of those 7 crit slots is it, and it only does 20 damage, which is nothing compared to the 200 damage 1 ton of LRM does to you on a ammo explosion.

So if the gauss rifle did not have the disadvantage listed above... every single mech in the game would have them, why would anyone use anything else? Every weapon has to have something about that makes it good and bad, the gauss rifle is a great weapon, virtually no heat, and ammo does not explode. sadly the balance is, that the weapon it self does. Sorry, you can not have no heat, no ammo explosion, and LRM range, without a catch. The Gauss rifle has advantages, and some great ones at that, it also has a disadvantage that makes using it a risk, that is called balance. Roll the dice, I hope it pays off.

Quoted for truth. Could not have said it any better.

[Insidious Johnson]

Capacitor = stored/amplified electrical charge. Not so much "explosion" in the firey sense unless there are nearby combustables. However, the myomer internals that cause "muscle" movements are powered electrically. Therefore, that part of the mech (if not the WHOLE mech)should undergo massive uncontrolled spasms which would be likely to affect the whole mech much like a kid watching flashy anime. Would love to see a mech on the ground doing the 'gator'.